I would assume so - that's why I would have thought they would have sent a revised offer by now. Gosh ......this is a nail biting exercise!

Any news Alicole? Would be very interested to hear as I sent a similar letter to the solicitors last week (sent it recorded delivery - must check when it was received!) but have heard nothing.

Well was kinda hoping that Natwest would blink first and give me all the lovely dosh without having to go to court. Unfortunately tomorrow is the last day that I can lodge my defence with the court.....sort of wishing now that I'd taken the money.

Well I rejected their kind offer - but am being to wish I'd accepted it now as tomorrow is the last day for me to hand in my court allocation form (together with another £100 that I really haven't got)

If you have a look at my thread (headed have I opened a can of worms?) you will see that they asked me for answers to their defence and I was given brillant help - this might be helpful to you.

as we've come this far, we might as well go the whole hog. So have sent them a letter saying that unless an offer covering initial amount, interest and court costs is made, everything is still as before. Hope they reply before next friday as that's another £100 I'll have to find!

over the course of action to follow. Basically he wants to take the money and run ......partly becasue he thinks that we'd lose and partly becasue he's snowed under at work (works for him self) and really doesn't need the hassle of a potential court case. I feel that it won't get to court but at the same time I don't want to argue with him ......oh gawd, show me a sign of what I should do??????

it looks like they're offering abit more %age wise in your case than in mine but its roughly half of what we're claiming. When did you send your thanks but no thanks letter?

On hubby's behalf we're claiming £2130, plus interest plus court costs. So in total about £2500. Came home to a letter today offering a goodwill payment of £1200....with usual gagging conditions. Hubby wants to accept but I feel that they are on the run and have offered a low amount to start off with. Did your offer letter state that RBS/Natwest reject liability and that they reckon your claim have little chance of succeeding? (Or what I'm really asking is, is this a stock 1st offer?)

GOOD NEWS! After the horrible thought that I'd really mucked things up, hubby came home to a letter from Cobettts offering a £1200 goodwill payment (original claim was for £2130, plus £340 plus court costs) Its a conditional offer (usual things like other offers made) and must be accepted by next week. As we're going away this weekend I have to make a decision in the next 24/48 hours. They reckon that my challenge to their charges in court would fail, their charges fair etc. They've also added the court would see this offer as fair.....so guys do I call their bluff or do I take the money and run???

If you ring up your branch they can tell you when you opened the account (I have a feeling that they call it first contact......obviously trekkie fans at natwest!)

Well guys I've sent off the reply and my own CPR 18 request, giving them until 5th June .....trouble is I have to return the forms to the court by the 3rd!!! So I guess for the next week or so its a case of sit and see what - if anything - the postman brings. Trouble is I've already mentally spent the money (and the sweetest part is that I would use it to pay off my RBS credit card, lol!)

Cheers folks..... btw I noticed today that on the court allocation papers that I have to return them to the new court by 3/6/06 (and this has been cofirmed by a nice lady at the court) ......so the plan is to send off the response/my own CPR 18 request and give them time to stew before taking the forms to the court .....fortunately (???) the court is only up the road from my office so I can personally take them there in my lunch hour. Thinking about it, I think I would have wanted to have details about the account before I coughed up £2130.......if they had paid up without these details I think I might have chanced my luck with the other banks as well!!!

well for now,lol! How do you actually submit a CPR 18? I've had a look on the various web sites (courts on line, dept for constitutional affairs) but although I can see the CPR 18 being referred to I can't see how you issue one! Do you simply write this is a request for further information under CPR 18 in the same letter that I enclose my reply to their CPR 18?

Thanks for the reply....gosh you are good....for the first time I've actually smiled! Trouble is points 1 - 4 form part of the CPR 18....so if I give them answers to points 1 -2 do I have to answer points 3 - 4?? (I've already posted above a draft letter to this effect) I think I have initially dug the hole as I didn't include details of the account on the claim form nor did I give them a list of how the amount was arrived at. So once they have this info do you think (and hence they can check for themselves) do you think they will they offer to settle?

The solicitors have asked for the following: 1. To what account(s) (giving details of the account name, number and sort code) were the charges applied 2.In relation to each chare alledged to have been overcharged please identify a)teh date when the charge was charged b) the amount of the same and c) the reasons(s) given for the charging of the same and this is the realbit that concerns/frightens me 3) In your claim you state that the charges are : "invalid under the Unfair (contracts) terms act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 Para 8 and Sch.2 (1)(e) and unreasonable within the meaning od the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15 4. Please specify all of the facts relied on by the claimant in support of the contentions in paragraph 3 above. I can send you a scanned copy of the defence if this would help. Thanks in advance.

Thanks guys for your words of support....am feeling abit happier today but not totally confident of where this is going. Anyway I was wondering about this today in work..... What would be the response if I wrote this to their CPR 18 request: Thank you for your letter dated 12th May 2006 and I note its enclosures. However I am not prepared to answer the question in paragraph 4 of your request for further information as I anticpate that the claim will be allocated onto the small claims track and would anticipate not having to deal with a Part 18 request since these aere specifically excluded under Part 27 unless the court specifically orders me to do so of its own initiative. However in the interests that this matter can be resolved amicably, I am prepared to confirm that the claim is made regarding charges made on the following account: Account Name : Sort Code : Branch Name : In addition, I attach a spreadsheet showing the dates charges were deducted from the above account, amount of each charge and type of charge made. No doubt your client will now be able to confirm that a) the relationship between your client and myself b) that the amount of charges deducted from my account equate to the sum that I am claiming in the above case without interest or court charges being taken into consideration. Again not sue how to end so opinions would be (once more!) appreciated.

I've just summarised the defence document and to be honest I'm now s**t scared of losing this thing....if I do it means that I will lose £220 and to be honest that's money I really can't afford to lose. As a matter of interest how long was the defence papers in your case? Mines 5 pages fully of claimant should prove this claimant should prove the other........ The difference between your claim and mine is that I have recieved my court allocation papers....so I can't even tell them where to go. Hopefully I'll be in a more positive mood tomorrow....I know I've had a lot of help & support but at the moment am really dreading the thought of where this is going - especially as I'm not the world's most confident person (got stopped the other day by pc plod for some minor and shook for 10 minutes after he'd gone!)

That's the ones. When did you send your reply back and have you received your court allocation papers yet......I have today!

I know this sounds stupid but have they asked you exactly the same questions as me????

and came across this: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=5292 In this particular thread, it mentions CPR Part 18 requests and guess what this further information that they want from me is a CPR Part 18 request!!! So would I be correct in writing back to them stating that in the circumstances I am not prepared at this stage to answer the Request and that I anticipate that the claim will be allocated to the Small CLaims Track and would not then expect to have to deal with a Part 18 request since these aere specifically excluded under Part 27 unless the court specifically orders you to do so of its own initiative. The only downside to this is that they are claiming they need details of the account from which am reclaiming charges ....which I guess is fair enough as I didn't put the details in the claim but if I DO have to reply to this CPR 18 can I issue one of my own, as king them how the charges are calculated etc? If I can how do I go about it???? This is getting totally exciting/scary all at the same time!

I've pm'd bankfodder as suggested. Think I should learn poker ......much less stressful!

Would appreciate thoughts on my draft reply to Cobbetts ..... ....also any ideas on the closing paragraph - somehow "So tell your client to give me my money back pronto!" doesn't seem quite right!!! Dear Sirs Case Re XXXXX Thank you for your letter dated 12th May 2006 and I note its contents and enclosures. With reference to your requests for further information, I would like to advise you that the above claim is made regarding charges made on the following account: Account Name : Sort Code : Branch Name : In addition, I attach a spreadsheet showing the dates charges were deducted from the above account, amount of each charge and type of charge made. As you will no doubt be aware, the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 Section 2(e) clearly state that ”Terms which have the object or effect of requiring any consumer, who fails to fulfil his obligation, to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation” may be regarded as unfair. It is my belief that any amount over and above that which would compensate National Westminster Bank Plc for the actual costs that it has incurred by returning a direct debit unpaid can only be considered to be a penalty. In addition, my belief is reinforced that these charges are merely punitive in nature (and thus illegal) as National Westminster Bank Plc do not discriminate either between any returned direct debit amount or even individual customers in its charges. Again under the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982, Section 15, which states: “Where, under a contract for the supply of a service, the consideration for the service is not determined by the contract, left to be determined in a manner agreed by the contract or determined by the course of dealing between the parties, there is an implied term that the party contracting with the supplier will pay a reasonable charge.” Thus it would not seem unreasonable for your client (should they consider the returning of a direct debit unpaid to be a service) to provide evidence of the actual cost incurred by them on each and every occasion these charges have been made against my account. In addition, I find inconvincible that the costs incurred by your client are any more costly when returning an unpaid item from a personal account than a business account and yet their charges differ, with a business customer of your clients being charged less than a personal customer. This only serves to reinforce my belief that they are punitive in nature and are not designed to reflect the costs, whatever they may be.

Can I just ask if your defence came from Corbetts Solicitors up in Manchester? If so then join the club, as we had a defence letter from them last friday (last day before we could apply for judgement, D'oh!) Anyway they asked for the same info from us that they've asked from you so I'm glad someone has actually suggested a reply to their 3rd part of the defence! btw how much are you claiming back off them?

a) it comes from solicitors (Corbetts?) based in Mancester b) that they ask you for further information specifically: 1.The details of the account 2. A list of the charges and when they were incurred 3.What you exactly mean by the relevant acts quoted in your court action (if you quoted any that is!)