Hi everyone and Happy NewYear, over the Christmas period we received a letter from Ashburn requesting the missing payment. They have not responded at all to the letter that was sent in November. Looks like they are playing the "we never received it game". The letter has not been returned and it was sent to exactly the same address as our initial request. Thanks in advance PT

Hi Everyone, sent letter off the general gist is as follows:- I refer to the gym membership and/or credit agreement signed in for 24 months. With reference to my letter dated . I'm horrified after receiving the paperwork I requested to find that I was misled by into signing a 2 year credit agreement for the amount of £££££. I initially filled a form in, and then on my following visit I was told to sign in the places indicated by asterisks as a “formality”. At no point was I given a copy of agreement or shown the terms and conditions. I now believe that this was done on purpose to prevent me from exercising the 14 day cooling off period. I therefore request that you take this letter as formal notice that I wish to terminate the above agreement with immediate effect. I will make a formal complaint to the OFT if you do any of the following:- 1. Do not agree to the cancellation. 2. Agree to the cancellation, but insist I pay the balance remaining under the credit agreement for the 24 month period. 3. Take action to collect any balance allegedly owed. 4. Threaten me with, or make, or cause to be made by anyone, any default or other adverse credit marker with any credit reference agency. I will deal with this matter by letter only. Please do not contact me by telephone for any reason whatsoever or pass my telephone details to any third party. Lets see what the postman brings the direct debit has now been cancelled. Thanks for the help. PT

Hi Slick, nope just for MS Thanks PT

Hi Slick, thanks for the advice basically what you have said is 100% correct. My partner had absolutely no idea she was signing up for a CCA. No one has attended for well over a month now. Thanks for your help PT

Hi slick We have absolutely no paperwork and have never received any. My partner handed over an application and that was it. Do you reckon it would be worth writing to them requesting the documents? Cheers PT

Hi everyone, we took out a gym-membership for kick-boxing for my son approximately 10months ago. When the membership was taken out we were given no T&C and it was very unclear that we were actually taking out a credit agreement. I believe we have actually taken out a 24 month membership my partner signed the agreement or membership. To top it of we actually received a letter from Asburn stating that were were in arrears this was due to them not setting up the direct debit mandate several months in, we now pay by standing order. Were are now finding it very difficult to get our son to the gym and want to cancel we are happy to continue for the 12 monts but no longer. I was planning on writing to Ashburn requesting a copy of our agreement and the relevant T&C is this a good idea? I have contacted the gym and they have told me that the only way out of the membership is if you either move or have a medical condition. This was not made clear at all otherwise we would not have signed up if there was no possible way to cancel for 24 months. Thanks PT

Thanks Slick will do

Hi, I'm in a similar situation regarding a membership but we took out one for our son, we never received a copy of the agreement or even saw the T&C it was all very very vague. At the time of taking out I even remarked is this a credit agreement because there are no terms. What happened regarding your cancellation request? Thanks PT

Hi CB, basically they have now sold the same account 3 times. On two occasions the owner has litigated and failed. After each failure its bundled up and sold on like a macabre game of pass the parcel. Interesting case law though never heard of it before. Prior to this the Judge looked in the white book the claim would only be allowed if the defendant had misled the claimant, new evidence had come to light or the laws had changed. Pretty much now quoting from a link "However, in Westbrook it was confirmed that the court's approach to CPR 38.7 should be informed by the principles that no one should be sued twice over the same events, and that it is in the public interest to bring litigation to an end." Amen to that. Thanks PT

Hi everyone, well yesterday I broke a promise to myself and had a massive go at a DCA that had the nerve to call me, wrong I know but sometimes I feel very frustrated especially after 5 years of dealing with idiots. I haven't received any new claim (strike 3) just doing some reading. While looking into CPR38.7 I actually found some case law. This is very interesting as my strike out was confirmed several months prior. They must have read my application (I wish) OK this has only come into play since October 2011 Westbrook Dolphin Square Ltd v Friends Provident Life http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2011/2302.html&query=Westbrook+and+Dolphin+and+Square+and+Ltd+and+v+and+Friends+and+Provident+and+Life&method=boolean I have found several sites explaining this http://www.boyesturner.com/news-article.html?id=1646 http://www.internationallawoffice.com/newsletters/detail.aspx?g=697da1da-35b2-4da7-be45-c7f039f7e447#2 Can someone explain what a consent order is please? I made an application to have the Claimants case struck out Part 3.4(2)(b) and the DJ agreed. So does that now operate as a final judgement determining all the issues in the claim in favour of the Defendant? http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part03#3.4 Power to strike out a statement of case 3.4 (2) The court may strike out(GL) a statement of case if it appears to the court – (a) that the statement of case discloses no reasonable grounds for bringing or defending the claim; (b) that the statement of case is an abuse of the court’s process or is otherwise likely to obstruct the just disposal of the proceedings; or © that there has been a failure to comply with a rule, practice direction or court order. If so does res judicata now apply in earnest? The parties are not identical but their interests will be namely they are creditors seeking to enforce exactly the same CCA. If so it looks to me that if your Claimant is getting cold feet get your defence in quick . I'm glad they phoned me now I might have never found that case law. Thanks PT

morning, the car is shared with some family members i'm sure my sister knows who was driving. As the big brother i'm the one to sort it out though. thanks pt

hi, prior correspondence was received but PE pulled their usual stunt the discount expired before the initial invoice is received. No reply was ever given. I suppose the standard defense with the addition that the Defendant has never parked the vehicle on said premises, has never read the signage that may or may not be present and has no knowledge whatsoever of its content or alleged contract. Interestingly they refer to the land as private but it belongs to the hotel, so how would you say inquire if there was a room free. You would get a £100 invoice for your trouble very shaky indeed. Also how does entering a car park result in the landowner been out of pocket by £100? I'm positive that if defended the Claimant will find another victim to [problem]. Diminishing returns spring to mind. thanks PT

Hi, I have just received court papers from parking eye. First things I have never parked my vehicle on the car park, my car was been used by someone else who was insured to use it. I have never visited said car park ever so I have no idea what the signs say or what contract I may or may not have entered. The speculative invoice was received after the initial reduction period for early payment so it went straight to the £100. The land in question was a hotel car park with no barriers or any form of payment. Apparently from loking on google tiny signs were there but very hard to see. Help would be appreciated as I know have the standard claim from Northampton. Thanks PT

Hi Brig, I agree 100%. Unfortunately it appears Natwest policy is that they will not stop collection action unless a nominal repayment plan is in place. Obviously all this is adding against them should they decide to issue proceedings. They are behaving unfairly and we have also stated that any further requests for repayment will be treated as harassment. When he first wrote to them with his I&E they stated that they couldn't accept it as it was incomplete. It was 100% complete the debt-line sheet gives no repayment when your expenditure is negative. He had to write to them for an explanation this was their reply verbatim. "Thank you for your letter dated xx xx 2013, the contents of which have been noted. I enclose a copy of your original financial statement and as requested I have highlighted the area that requires attention. Whilst I appreciate that at present you have insufficient disposable income to maintain payments to your account; in order to be able to process this statement and suspend the interest that is applied monthly, I will require an offer of a nominal payment to service the outstanding debt. A prepaid envelope is enclosed and I look forward to receiving your early reply." Two weeks latter he received a DN then they terminated, nice bank. Thanks again PT

Thats a good I idea I will get him to lay it on thick in the attached letter stating that they are behaving unfairly and that the repayment is done under duress and the money is taken from his family's food allowance. I will also get him (as mentioned) that Natwest have received preference over his other creditors. Thanks again all PT

Hi CB, Natwest have behaved despicably during the whole process. My brother in law wrote to them at the end of February explaining the situation he even included a I&E. At the start of April they defaulted him after 1 missed payment (the DN is highly suspect) by the end of April the account was terminated. They have on multiple occasions requested repayments even though he has nothing to pay. As you say CB I'm not sure what they hope to gain. The only slight plus point the account is now defaulted so no further interest but that's no the point. The account is a CC so I'm assuming COBS will apply. Thanks PT

Hi everyone, Okay my friend has had a reply to his official complaint to Nat west about his unfair treatment. This is in response to CB's great letter (post 8) We sent :- "Dear Sir or Madam, Account Ref Letter Ref I am in receipt of your letter DATED and would respond as follows. Your statement below, is disingenuous : "Although l appreciate your circumstances, I will be unable to defer the above account any further without a nominal offer of repayment. " I have provided you with a Personal Budget Statement, as you can see from that, there is no disposable income with which to make a "nominal" offer. You further proceed to state : "Unfortunately this leaves me with no alternative but to consider further action for recovery of the outstanding debt." By this I imagine, that it is your intention to either pass this account on to a DCA, thereby distancing yourself from any responsibility to a customer suffering temporary financial hardship, or to litigate. Your comments lead me to believe that you have no intention of "Treating me Fairly" I would point out that other creditors have accepted that I am not, at the present time, in a position to make any offer. I therefore, await further notice of your intentions. Yours faithfully," Their reply :- "Thank you for bringing the issue to our attention and for being so patient while I have been investigating your complaint Your Complaint and Outcome Having considered all the information, I am sorry I am unable to agree with your complaint about the wording in our letter dated xx/xx/xx because this was sent in line with bank policy. My Investigation Here is a summary of what I have investigated; I have checked the procedures that have taken place on your account since you sent in your financial statement dated xx/xx/xx to our correspondence department. I have noted that from this financial statement it shows that you did not have any available income however in order to assist you further and suspend the interest on your account we did require a nominal payment. Otherwise we are entitled to pass your account to a Debt Recovery Agent for further collections recovery as outlined in our Terms and Conditions. The letter dated xx/xx/xx that was sent to you from our correspondence department was sent in line with bank policy and I am sorry if the wording contained in this letter caused you upset, th is was not our intention. I understand you have completed a financial statement however if you want us to review this again then please contact our collections department who will be happy to assist you. I hope that I have been able to explain the position for you. If you are unhappy with my decision you have the right to go to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS). I have enclosed a leaflet providing further details of the FOS and any referral to them should be made within 6 months of the date of this letter, although I hope this will not be necessary. If there is anything further that you would like to bring to my attention that has not already been considered or if anything mentioned is incorrect, you can speak to me or a member of my team on the number quoted above between 9am and 5pm, Monday - Friday. Calls may be recorded. Yours sincerely " Unbelievable they have said we can do what we want its in the T&C. The actual investigation is as follows:- This is exactly as received "I checked on TSYS and found that the cardholder sent in his financial statement dated xx/xx/xx we logged this onto our system on xx/xx/xx from the information provided it showed that the cardholder had a negative figure available of £xxx As he did not advise us of a token payment offer the correspondence team wrote back to the cardholder advising him that his financial statement was incomplete and that we would need a nominal offer. There was then a note on TSYS dated xx/xx/xx from correspondence stating that they had received a reply from the cardholder letter dated xx/xx/xx advising that he wanted to know what was missing from his financial statement. Correspondence sent a letter to him to advise that he did not offer a nominal payment and that we would need to know this in order to process his financial statement and suspend interest. There was then another note on TSYS dated xx/xx/xx from correspondence stating that they had received a reply from the cardholder letter dated xx/xx/xx advising that he did note on his financial statement that he was unable to offer any repayment as he had no available income. He states that he feels under duress at our request to offer a nominal amount. He finishes his letter by stating that he has nothing left to offer at present. Therefore correspondence sent out a letter to advise him that normal action will continue on his account. I spoke to correspondence and they clarified that if a cardholder does not offer a nominal payment then the account will continue with normal recovery action. The above actions were all carried out in line with bank policy. I have reviewed the letter dated xx/xx/xx that correspondence sent to him and can see that there is nothing in it that would cause offence to the customer. But I will apologise to the customer if we have caused any upset. It is stated in the Terms and Conditions that we can take immediate steps to recover all amounts due if a cardholder breaks the agreement. http;\\http://www.group.rbsgrp.net\YGujde6INatWestINOV 12013lMarch 2013INW%20Core.pdf Section 8 (f) I have considered knock on effects but as the complaint is rejected I have not taken any action" Makes interesting reading doesn't it what they have stated they will go against the OFT's guidelines on debt collection by continuing the process even though they know the debtor has no money to offer. Having helped several people with this Bank it goes to show they have absolutely no interest in behaving fairly. The above investigation is particularly damning I feel. All his creditors have frozen accounts accept Natwest. The OFT guide lines are very clear i. pressurising debtors to pay more than they can reasonably afford without experiencing undue difficulty The OFT would regard 'without undue difficulty' in this context as meaning the debtor being able to make repayments while also meeting other debt repayments and other normal/reasonable outgoings and without having to borrow further to meet these repayments Physical/psychological harassment 3.6 Putting undue pressure on debtors or relevant third parties Comments would be very gratefully appreciated. I feel a complaint to the OFT is required. Thanks PT

Seems to me that Claimants should get their house in order before galloping off to Northampton. A valid DN being mandatory for judgement in their favour. To answer you question Shadow they treat the account like nothing has happened and add further interest and PPI for 6 months. Sadly for them when they issue a claim CPR 38.7 applies. As my DJ stated it's the same debt only the name has changed on the form lets put an end to this. If CPR 38.7 didn't apply then the OC could play pass the parcel to infinitum. Thanks all PT

Hi Iain, its not SB yet probably in about a year I would say. To be fair to the OC they just flog these things off as a block. I tried to come to a payment arrangement years ago they couldn't even be bothered to answer my letter so be it. The good news it LIP costs are now £18, bring it on. Cheers PT

Hi, congratulations Shadow absolutely fantastic. I hope you don't mind asking a question about what Donkey raised? Donkey said that basically if they had backed down on the initial case and then reissued that would have been ok. If they had discontinued the first case (after you filed a defence) and then reissued the claim would have been identical (the DN would be different) so wouldn't CPR 38.7 have blocked them from reissuing? Could they have just requested a stay to fabricate a new DN and then trotted on regardless? Would the grounds that they had knowingly trotted off to court without valid documents convince a DJ to allow them to reissue a case with upgraded documents (if they had discontinued)? Thanks PT

Afternoon everyone, well time marches on and the OC gets more daft just to sum this thread up 1. Due to loss of earning I have to stop paying. 2. The OC sells it to Link who decide to litigate in late 2009. 3. Link discontinue as the OC never sent a default notice. (after I file a defence and attend court) 4. They flog it back to Santander 5. Santander decide that they will reinstate the account start charging interest and PPI again then issue a default. 6. Santander decide to litigate in 2011. 7. I file (N244) for a strike out as they didn't apply for permission to re-issue a case that was discontinued so CPR38.7 applies. 8. My application is heard the DJ agrees 100% with me Claimant can't even be bothered to turn up Claimant case is struck out. 9. The Claimant requests the strike out is set aside along the lines that the strike out was silent as to why the claim was struck out. 10. I attend court again the judge asked why they asked for a set aside they should have issued an appeal. And sends them packing. 11. The judge confirms the previous DJ strike out still stands Now after 2 years they are flogging it to Global Barrow apparently. So off we go again. What fun Obviously I could still use CPR 38.7, I would be very surprised if a judge allowed another 3rd party to issue an identical claim the Claimant would be different only in name, their standing and the overriding facts would be exactly the same (3rd time lucky maybe). Any comments I'm getting a bit fed up of this one now. Plus I'm a bit vexed I asked for the PPI back and Santander refunded it back to the account, I never agreed to this. I should have waited till now I would have got the lot back I just had a look back at my letters to and from them (all carefully scanned and ordered) and the OC is an utter shambles. Thanks PT

You are not going to believe this, he has just received a letter from KP stating they have accepted his payment plan and has to pay £0 for the next 3 months. The penny has dropped I think. Thanks PT

Thanks CB, I will update when they reply to letters. Cheers PT

Hi CB, the DN was dated 14th March date to rectify pay arrears of xx by the 4th April, DN also states before date shown (official text bit) . I had him going through garbage to find the envelope 2nd class cheapo post. The timing is very tight. The above letter from KPR was dated 5th April He always gets proof of postage RD is too expensive now. Thanks again nice letter PT

Hi CB, we have set up a shared google drive account between us. He scans the letters and uploads then then we edit letters on the shared drive great for storing and seeing the progression. Ok to business this is a OCC of the letter some of the formatting is a bit dodgy but you get the drift. "FORMAL DEMAND FOR PAYMENT Account number: xxxxx Outstanding Balance;xxxxxxx Nationwide Building Society has instructed us to collect your debt on their behalf. It‘s important that you pay off the debt immediately, or call us on 0845 xxxxxxxx within seven days of the date of this letter to agree a mutually acceptable proposal to repay the debt. Nationwide is now considering taking legal proceedings to obtain a Court Judgement against you. This would remain on your credit file for 6 years and make it difficult for you to get credit in the future Legal action would incur further costs that would be added to the money you currently owe. Nationwide, or one of its agents, would then look to enforce the judgement obtained against you by applying for one of the following enforcement options: In England & Wales; Charging Order — securing the debt against property - Warrant of Execution * bailiff attending your property to remove goods to the value of your debt Attachment of Earnings - court instructing your employer to deduct money from your salary In Scotland Inhibition — securing the debt against property Attachment Order Sheriffs Officers attending your property to remove goods to the value of your debt Attachment of Earnings — court instructing your employer to daduct from your salary In Northern Ireland Charging Order securing the debt against property 0 Attachment of Earnings 1 court instructing your employer to deduct money from your salary Alternatively your account may be referred to a specialist external Debt Collection Agency. We are committed to negotiating a fair and reasonable end to this matter and so would urge you to take this opportunity to contact us so that we can achieve this. Card payments can be made by calling 0845 xxxxxxx and quoting your name and account number. Cheques should be made payable to Nationwide Credit Card Services followed bv vour name and sent to the above address. quoting your account number. You can to Nationwide Credit Card Services followed bv vour name and sent to the above address." Pleasant letter isn't it. The value of this account is well below £2k. This has all kicked off at an alarming rate his DN was for 1 missed payment. He contacted them at the end of February explaining the situation. He received one letter requesting he contact them a few days latter to phone on a premium rate number. He wrote back explaining that he was unable to call on such a number and outlined his situation again. After this (2 weeks) he received a default notice. The above letter was dated 1 day after the DN expired. Shockingly bad. Thanks again PT