All received. Purchase price and court costs in 5 payments. They tried to delay the last unsuccessfully as I threatened them. Thanks to everyone who helped. I've now bought a lovely Skoda Superb which matches its name from a sensible dealer in Leeds. Kind wishes to all.

Third payment received today - 2 to go.

Oh dear - I was joking about OP - I am an old pensioner - thought it was funny. Yes - OJB - I now have two of five payments. The judge was quite firm over this. All my costs, purchase price, return transport. I knew it was worth pursuing despite "advice" to the contrary. Kind regards and thanks to all those who actually helped. BTW they haven't sold the "wreck" yet.

Hello I said I would return after my case and here I am. It's been a very interesting day. I hope others will find it informative and helpful. This was put into a Small Claims Court (They call it a track). Small Claims Courts were devised so that claimants and defendants could manage their own affairs. (Before someone corrects that please read the directives!) It would not be expected that a solicitor would represent either party unless the court were notified. Hence, I was very surprised when I was accosted by a solicitor just before my name was called for the hearing. I had already noticed that the defendants were not present. He indicated that he was there as an adviser to the defendants (who, remember, were not there) I admonished him profoundly and indicated that I was not prepared to deal with him as I had checked the week before to see if any solicitor had been assigned to the case (both at Salford and at my local court.) Sheepishly he asked if he could continue and wanted to see if we could avoid a court hearing which was why he was there. I agreed to listen to him and discuss a possible road forward. We investigated my extensive spreadsheet and he asked what I would be prepared to accept in settlement. I suggested removing a few items I'd claimed and we decided on a figure. He disappeared to "'phone" the defendants. He was away over 50 minutes and I noticed that the defendants had now sneaked in to the waiting area unannounced - too late for the called trial. This had obviously been a ploy to avoid a judgement in my favour. (Please note - he was from Newcastle - 4o miles - and they had to travel from Manchester over the Pennines) He returned with their offer which I rejected as it was too low and they wanted to take 4 months to repay the amount. I told him that under no circumstances would I accept any delay and I didn't accept their offer. He disappeared for another 40 minutes and came back to say that I had been charged the wrong amount by the court and would have to take this up with them Obviously I rejected this and said that I wanted my stated payment within 7 days or.... very firmly... we would go to the court hearing and let the judge decide.. He stuttered and left again to discuss with his clients. He returned again and said that interest would only be small as the judge would not award the customary 8% owing to the low bank rate. I rejected this and off he went again. He returned to say they had agreed my figure but as a compromise they would pay the agreed sum weekly over 5 weeks. I accepted this provided it was done by bank transfer and punctiliously. The first to be tomorrow by 4 p.m. I'll come back tomorrow and let you know. I'm convinced that they were afraid to go to a court hearing as their evidence contained lies and they had a dubious business background which I had included in my bundle (Thanks to a contribution here which helped my research - see above) We went to the judge who would confirm our agreement. She praised my documents. What have I learned from this? Personally - don't be annoyed and retaliate when called an OP (Old pensioner?) and being given advice you KNOW is wrong. This is an interesting blog where you can read many facets of self aggrandisement. I've been very ill and angry so I suppose that's a bit of an excuse when I've been rude. I had surgery for cancer on December 1st last year. And you? 1. Stick by your guns and don't let the rude experts here ( there are some excellent ones of course) bully you into doing something you know is wrong. They think they know but..... e.g. the CRA icon states that the expected condition should be consummate for age/mileage. I have the full act and this isn't mentioned any where. 2. Research the retailer's background - you might find a lot of mud as I did. 3. Make sure you keep a record of all your expenditure and claim it. 4. Download a copy of the C.R.A. and read it carefully. Don't accept the "experts" here who think they know it. There are many of those who do of course. 5. Switch off the annoying communicants here as I did as suggested by amoderator - it stops you getting angry. As far as buying a car is concerned: 1. If you can, have it checked over by an expert. 2. DON'T pay a deposit unless you are sure you are going to buy. 3. Don't trust the salesmen unless you have found several honest reviews. Comments edited 4. Don't buy from someone with an outdoor compound and a dingy office. 5. Thoroughly check all the advertised claims especially service and MOT. 6. Don't rely on a glamorous website. 7. Make sure you are not dealing with a company and claim against individuals. (two in my case - as advised here.) 8. Be very careful if you buy on EBay - I didn't by the way. 9. If you are returning a vehicle have it photographed and also include an illuminated dashboard as I did and suggested here above - thanks. Despite the negatives on this blog I have fully recovered my money. If they don't pay by Banker's Order the court will haul them back. Stand your ground and don't be bullied with legal waffle. It's their job to save the other side money. Decide what you are owed and stick to it. A judge might not agree but you certainly will feel happier about it. Beware of court costs and delays. Keep your claim below £5000 if possible. The car is back for sale on EBay - new company founded in November with a £1 share. Look it up - Lexus LS430. They now import jewellery and clothes from China!! And a general note - if you wrote rudely here before then others might read but I've switched you off as advised by a moderator. So don't bother sunnysuck - I won't read it. I did as I said I would and I have won. Many thanks to all the very kind people who helped and advised. It makes this site very worthwhile. It's a pity there are a few who pontificate without the necessary knowledge or just assume they know. Otherwise - Well done everybody who helped progressively and thank you! Kind regards to all the kind, helpful, sensible here.

Amazingly these crooks have the same car on sale again, Have a look NW car sales - Heywood Manchester - Lexus LS 430 Exactly the same photos as before.

Bazzas I've been here for many years (more than many) and found it very helpful. Sadly this is no longer the way forward for help for me and anyone else in the same predicament. I thought I could help others from my experience. "you haven't given them the whole story" Rubbish - look back!! "Thanks Oddjob" was an error - I misread the blog. The advice came from some one else. I see you are a gold account holder. God bless you and good luck. You really should read what's gone before. I've made several donations to this site before because I thought it was all worthwhile. I've had very useful advice which I've adopted. Sadly now I'm very disappointed and I will return only once more after the case and then I won't be back. There are many who could benefit from my current experiences which is what this site is all about and several instances have been quoted in my evidence against some deceitful rogues who stole from a handicapped pensioner. Oddjob is not being helpful he's obviously attempting to avoid his friends in the trade from paying for what they actually owe. Obviously because this is a popular site there are blanks in what I have contributed. Frankly your gold comments are inappropriate. Perhaps you feel that Oddjobbob should be encouraged in his derogatory contributions - I assume he has contributed and wants further encouragment. Me - I'm off - forget it - I'll be back after the trial if it ever happens and I'll post my last help for other subscribers. (Spits in bin - stupid response) I see Heliosuk from the trade is back Go and play with you cars. You're a trade mechanic who profits from this environment. Read my last contribution. Richard Cranium springs to mind. Sadly - I'm off! What a silly load of misinformed and greedy contributants to this site. I've spent several £100s of my pounds pursuing this. I expect to get them back!! Personal messages might be replied to if they're not from the dealer underworld and I guess there are many here. Many thanks for all the sensible help I've had. Now I'm off - trial soon. Go away Heliosuk and play with your dealer friends - I've already posted I'm off - how sad this site is with people like you..

Hello again Oddjobbob - how's business? In the nicest possible way - I don't need your advice - you don't know ALL the story which I've not printed here because I know it's followed - although you should be able to work a few things out for your self. If you've bothered to read this extensive dialogue you will know that the car's already back and filmed in situ as advised from here. As I said before: "if you haven't anything kind or useful to add here then go and share your wonderful expertise on another blog." You can find what others are saying on Facebook and Twitter; and check out the auction site they run and the comments. The trader has to pay the transport and they haven't - £400 C.R.A. Ch2 [20] s8 Whether or not the consumer has a duty to return the rejected goods, the trader must bear any reasonable costs of returning them. I don't know why it's so difficult to convince people that this is the law but there it is. I don't have to pay it. The form(s) are done again - so I'll let people know what happens. There will be some here who don't make a fast buck out of motorists and are worried for themselves.

So......................... I bought the "Pearl" book. I bought the "Consumer Survival Handbook". I visited sites linked and read, watched and listened. I read and consumed all the helpful advice here I read other advice on the Internet I ignored rude people and traders and went ahead I downloaded Form N1 and the GOV advice (I read it) and filled N1. I took it to the local court to see if I'd filled it in correctly. "Everything is fine" said the experienced lady. I bought a postal order for £205 (+ of course) and sent it off "tracked" paying more additional fees. Sat and waited and, of course it was all sent back. It's a pity the "Pearl" guide book is out of date - at least the ebook is fine. Nowhere was I told as follows: (received when I phoned Salford from a very pleasant, sympathetic lady.) If you have two defendants named you can use the same claim form (great!) I did! However you must list each individually as "J Bloggs trading as Joes Sweets" and the address; and "Fred Bloggs trading as Joe's Sweets" and the address. Of course there isn't enough room and the pdf has a captured font and font size. (I can get round that) Then two forms must now be completed with the name address of each defendant in the bottom box i.e. on two separate forms. I realise why now - because the address you enter goes into a box at the bottom left which will nicely fit in a suitable envelope without any extra effort to be sent on. Oh - and you need the court's permission for two defendants on another £100 form. More printing ink, more paper, another envelope (I included three blank ones not returned.) Tracking costs again. Then another £335 if we go any further - potentially over £600. It's a wonder anyone bothers. People who've spent all their savings on something ( a posh TV - a top washer - an American fridge ) will be stuck. I hope someone finds this useful and it saves them time and money. That's why we're here isn't it? Regards to all

I've been with the AA since April 57. Expensive but very good and reliable. I've got a few freebies added now. I expect I've paid for their HQ. I would recommend them but I'd also say you don't want to pay for a Silver membership. I pay monthly for two of us.

I see the traders are back. Heliosuk - I haven't paid your fee so I don't need your advice. You've already had my comments. And you are not a lawyer although I see you are associated with trump and apparently can make your own laws. And I see that you continue to be unnecessarily rude. St George?? by George - just stop being rude and go and play with your cars. I'm not bragging here or riding my stallion - I've been seeking help and useful advice - which I've had - many thanks to those who have obliged. I am much more confident going forward to the Small Claims Court. Not so sure about the cock though - better adjust my skirt. "What is wrong with the car? What is the age and mileage? How much paid? " Whoever this OP is - you've been given ALL you've asked for. Anyway I expect your proverbial friends at NW car sales have already told you. Go back and read again and please stop contributing to this post This website is not here to dissuade people from pursuing their rights which is obviously what you are trying to do. I haven't read anywhere that a car has an expendable life although obviously most have evidenced by the size of scrap yards. Although I see Nationwide are still running the Fred Flintstone's vehicle. "Buy our car but it will only last you a few years will need expensive parts fitted by an expensive mechanic and then wear out." Good sales ploy. My colleague's car is over 25 years old and still reliable and serviceable only requiring replacement of parts that normally wear out. A clean MOT with no warnings every year. And there are plenty of honest people selling cars much older than that or this defective machine. "consummate with age and mileage. - Really? Someone's rewritten it again. "9 Goods to be of satisfactory quality (1) Every contract to supply goods is to be treated as including a term that the quality of the goods is satisfactory. (2) The quality of goods is satisfactory if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would consider satisfactory." But sadly, guys, you are too late. It's all being dealt with now using the excellent guide at the top of this site with its lawyer video links and the excellent book advertised on the side here. Having been a delegate to the Law Society I've also had some good advice from there also. As I said before - oh no I didn't - did I - I didn't say anything before: This is a site to help people - yes - help people - not to give false advice in support of the dealers who cheat and rob; or to pontificate and castigate. It's not needed. I do wish those who monitor here would delete the rudeness. I had my question marks removed. All I want back is what I've spent plus interest after being sold a defective vehicle. I realise Lexus like to make a few bucks. I'd already booked a provisional service assuming I was dealing with an honest retailer. Please - please - if you haven't anything kind or useful to add here then go and share your wonderful expertise on another blog.

Thanks oddjobbob - that's very kind and helpful. I'm sending the court claim today - sadly nature is occasionally unkind so I've been slowed down. I did do similar research to yours and found the absence of VAT number and Company number. However, the receipt shows a VAT no:207 1290 41 I also checked various company registration sites and found: [Name] (b. August 1985 - just over 30) “Active directorships – 0, Resigned directorships – 0 Closed directorships – 7 Total directorships – 7." "[Name] is not registered as holding any current appointments.” The Nwca Limited was dissolved on 2017-02-28 =In America ;-) The Nwca was a private limited company . The company was officially classified as "sale of used cars and light motor vehicles" (45112). 2015-11-26 was the date of the most recent annual return. Companies with links: BEST QUOTE SERVICES LIMITED (Company number 07001305) (Dissolved) MICHELIN PROPERTIES LIMITED (Dissolved) NW TYRES AND BATTERIES LTD (Dissolved) SHOPEAZ LTD (Dissolved) CRUSTICO LTD (Dissolved) (Liabilities - £36,190 – Assets £16347) Crustiico Ltd ( a food import business ) at the same address– incorporated 14th May 2012 with capital of £1 on 15th May 2015 THE NWCA LIMITED (Dissolved) (Liabilities £2875 – Assets £3000) SCRAP YOUR MOTOR LIMITED (Dissolved) Over 907 companies are registered at this postcode address (Brulimar House Jubilee Road, Middleton, Manchester, M24 2LX) which appears to be a mail forwarding address. They are now called "NW car sales" and they also run a car auction - probably from where they obtain their cars. They haven't disappeared yet but I don't suppose it will be long. I have been offered a full refund but no consequential damages or "gesture of goodwill" and I'm expected to sign that I'm satisfied with that. There's an extra £100 on the spread sheet already which is increasing at 8% per day. Court costs are now £205 for the application and £335 for the trial. This somewhat precludes many people and it isn't returned if an out of court settlement is reached. I'll return when I have more developments. I've been a delegate to the Law Society so I have a number of educated friends. Thanks again for your time and support. I agree with you about heliosuk. I don't understand its problem. Helios was described as a handsome Titan crowned with the shining aureole of the Sun, who drove the chariot of the sun across the sky each day to earth-circling Oceanus and through the world-ocean returned to the East at night. In the Homeric hymn to Helios, Helios is said to drive a golden chariot drawn by steeds - must be a very good mechanic. I've been dealing with a questionable company and can do without unwarranted unpleasantness. BTW I don't like champagne or beer. Kind regards Sorry and many thanks to Stu007 - missed that.

Agreed but a lot of folks read this site and it's worth warning them.

It's mbl fns tht cors the problem. LOL - Sorry - couldn't resist. I get so fed up with people who can't string a sentence together. NEWAY CUL*R. ;-)

Sorry! I mistyped Lawgistics. Try Googling them - they brag all over about how they've saved garages.

I'm not an expert by any means but I've spent a lot of hours on a similar question. I would suggest you buy The Consumer Survival Handbook (Ebook) advertised above and also the Pearl & Goodman book usually advertised left - make sure you get the latest edition ( mine was 2008!). I expect that you will soon meet Lawgisitics a solicitors firm which will try to bully you. Be careful if they ask you to return the vehicle because it's a ploy to prevent you recovering your money. They will say that you have "deemed to have it repaired." They are dreadful bullies against consumers and usually win and brag about it on the Internet. Don't give in to them but be polite or a judge won't like it. I'm off to court soon with my retailer and Lawgistics have disappeared. Look them up - they're all over the Internet bragging. Good luck!

Hi dx100uk Following your informative post I've been doing some checking. There are three directors of "NWCA TRADING LTD" which has the same postal address etc and describe themselves as trading in cars and light vehicles. My receipts show NW car sales - no mention of LTD - I've found NWCA TRADING LTD by searching for details after your post. I haven't posted the claim yet so I'm still researching. I'll see what I can find from the VAT number. I don't want it bounced because it's wrongly directed. I can't find NW car sales on any register but one of the other "directors" is active in another company which is returning accounts. I've bought and read the Ebook "The Consumer Survival Handbook" - very good but a hard read on a Kindle book reader or monitor screen. Also in the excellent book advertised here by Pearl and Goodman (unfortunately a bit out of date - 2008) which I've also bought, there are different directions for a "firm" and a Limited Company but the advice is: "If the firm's notepaper, website or the notice displayed in the "shop" ( in my case office ) reveals that the prospective defendant is a limited company then that is the name which should be used on the claim form" I can't find LTD on anything I've received or on the website (which identifies as "karsales-northwest.co.uk".) The office is a dinghy room in an old business centre. I didn't see anything there. According to the above book this is a firm and name(s) should be used in the claim. At the moment I'm somewhat puzzled as I have only ever dealt with one individual by Email (that's his illiterate script I've quoted above) but the salesperson was not this individual. I believe this was one of the other directors to whom cc Emails are often directed. The third director appears to be the wife of the main miscreant who has an unusual name. I think I'm OK using the directions given in the book but it might be worth using the firm's title and adding the words "a trading name" as suggested in the book. But then can they all scarper or use a different name? Can anyone else add to your excellent advice? I've noticed in the link enlarged above Pearl that there is a "new" edition (2010) - mine is 2008. I bought it on Amazon because the PayPal link doesn't work on this site. Any comments anywhere please? Kind regards to all I see we have guests. Hello and welcome.

Thanks dx100uk I'm sorry I don't quite understand your response. I have already prepared the claim in the name of the owner together with my bundle which is ready to post when I get a £205 postal order. Are you suggesting that I should redo it and add the other name associated with the premises? I've had no communication from him. "he pers cant run away from by changing the Co. name the next week" I'm not sure what that means. The "Co." doesn't seem to be registered anywhere but there is a VAT number on the receipt and it's not Ltd. He has a large stock including some valuable cars. Do you think he might scarper? Belt and braces: I've still got the credit card to fall back on but they are a bit slow and somewhat unhelpful although they have paid for the car transporter.. Kind regards and thanks again for your helpful comments. BTW DX100 Yamaha keyboard?

Just as I was advised - he's trying to say I've damaged his car now he's got it back. Fortunately I took advice from here and had witnesses, photos and filmed the car in situ when returned. This is what he said - BTW time's nearly up for him - I've filled the claim form. I'm sending for the £205 postal order now. Copied verbatim - I don't think he passed GCSE English. "You are a liar I have enough evidence to prove if you want to go down that route then that's fine with Nw car sales, remember when you fill in the papers you are suing nw car sales get that right so no need to put any personal names on it. I have prepared evidence and can prove all the lies you have said. The car has been inspected independently and the way the car has come back is not the way it was driven away from our premises. If you want to go to court then we will Counter claim our stress and damage to the car." I don't know from where he'll claim his counter! Thanks again to all those who have helped. I'll update with progress.

Hello dx100uk Thanks for your comment. "deserves to be exposed." He will be - I've alerted Trading Standards, Get Dom (BBC), Watchdog (BBC) and the Daily Mail. I'm not posting any direct details here because it will help the defendant who probably follows postings here but I will be repeating here the progress I make. There are many - sadly some on this site - who think that all motor dealers are wonderful and their status should not be challenged. This has taken two months of my social and business time. Along with many other advertisers he states "FULL HISTORY." I've researched his background and he has had several dissolved companies. All readers of this excellent website should enlarge any web photos to find that in most cases this isn't true. Regards to all

So here we have an intelligent dealer???? What do you make of this? (Copied verbatim - only edited to fit - runs continuously) "we got a phone call from an unknown number claiming to be barclaycard we went along with it as we genuinely believed that the person on the other end of the line was actually a barclaycard customer adviser. however things started to get a little suspicious for us when we never got a call back that was promised from the so called barclaycard. after a little digging and a call to barclaycard and global payments who provide our card machine facility to us we discovered that the real barclaycard had no idea about a Mr (sic me) who had phoned about a refund etc and things started to fit into place. let me tell you at this point we were advised to call the police! but we decided to wait for correspondence from yourself!" I see he found the shift key for M - full stop seems elusive. And he just lies and lies. The car has been returned and filmed in situ. County Court Action to be started on Monday. He seems to think the law has nothing to do with him. No further info on here for the time being - it's being followed I know. Kind regards to all.

I'm dealing with a credit card company. I'm very surprised they don't know my rights and admitted they didn't know about the CRA references I quoted. Sadly I don't expect - like the Martians - instant results. The money people seem to hold all the fire irons and like to leave things in the in tray for some time. Good luck and kind regards.

Hi I'm glad you studied the CRA. I hope it helped. Good luck. Regards

Yup Bazzas I knew how to calculate but I didn't know the judge could diminish the extent. Thanks. I'm sorry my post was late I hadn't realised I should have checked extra pages at the bottom. Regards to all

Hi Ben, Interest is calculated at 8% per day. You won't receive your time payment of £700 but the District Judge might award you consequential damages. Have you returned the car? Did you photograph it inside and out? The CRA is long isn't it? I'm also fighting a garage. Good luck. Sorry I missed some of the above - went for tea before posting. Regards

Hello, I'm sorry to hear of your problem. You raised faults with the dealer very quickly but you seem to have taken a long time to reject the vehicle. The maximum time you are allowed by the Consumer Rights Act is 6 months and you really need to read this if you want to go further. When did you request a replacement? If this was in the first 30 days you might be able to pursue the matter. Have you spoken to the Finance Company? They are jointly responsible for problems. Consumer Rights Act 2015 Section 9 Goods to be of satisfactory quality (1) Every contract to supply goods is to be treated as including a term that the quality of the goods is satisfactory. (2) The quality of goods is satisfactory if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would consider satisfactory, taking account of— (a) any description of the goods, (b) the price or other consideration for the goods (if relevant), and © all the other relevant circumstances (see subsection (5)). (3) The quality of goods includes their state and condition; and the following aspects (among others) are in appropriate cases aspects of the quality of goods— (a) fitness for all the purposes for which goods of that kind are usually supplied; (b) appearance and finish; © freedom from minor defects; (d) safety; (e) durability. (5) The relevant circumstances mentioned in subsection (2)© include any public statement about the specific characteristics of the goods made by the trader, the producer or any representative of the trader or the producer. Section 22 Time limit for short-term right to reject (1) A consumer who has the short-term right to reject loses it if the time limit for exercising it passes without the consumer exercising it, unless the trader and the consumer agree that it may be exercised later. (2) An agreement under which the short-term right to reject would be lost before the time limit passes is not binding on the consumer. (3) The time limit for exercising the short-term right to reject (unless subsection (4) applies) is the end of 30 days beginning with the first day after these have all happened— (a) ownership or (in the case of a contract for the hire of goods, a hire-purchase agreement or a conditional sales contract) possession of the goods has been transferred to the consumer, (b) the goods have been delivered (6) If the consumer requests or agrees to the repair or replacement of goods, the period mentioned in subsection (3) or (4) stops running for the length of the waiting period. I hope this helps a little. You can find the whole act here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/contents/enacted Good luck - some garages/dealers are an absolute pain. Kind regards