Thanks, Surreyscouse. To be honest, I'm a bit upset. It's been a week now and I haven't had a letter or any form of reply from Mr McGrath. You don't think I've upset him do you? Perhaps I should send some flowers? Oh well, I'll give him another week before I ask Moneyclaim to act as an intermediary. In the meantime, any one got any ideas on how to elicit some response about my lost statements.

Hi Bankfodder, Yes. I paid an amount in what I was told was "short settlement", two years ago, but my credit reference file shows the account as 'partially settled'. It also concens me that, though I considered this account closed, Capital One are still preparing monthly statements (though not sending them to me) showing an outstanding balance.

Received a letter, yesterday from Gavin Theobald, Customer Advocate, enclosing a copy of the letter sent to my old address on 28th March and apologizing " for any inconvenience caused by the delay ". Their original letter said: "Thank you for your letter dated 22 February 2006. As this matter falls within my area of responsibility, I would like to provide a personal response. I understand that you are disputing the level of charges applied to your account over the past six years, prior to your account being assigned to 1st Credit. In view of your request for charges to be refunded, we have obtained copy statements for each account dating back to March 2000. I have enclosed copies of these statements, as requested in your letter. ( these may well have gone to my old address, but no further copies arrived with this letter! ) Regarding the application of late and overlimit fees, the Terms and Conditions of your agreement state that these charges will be applied when a required payment is not received by the due date, or when the balance outstanding exceeds the agreed credit limit. In relation to account xxxxxxxxx, the balance of your account prior to the transfer of the debt was £2364.27. If you subtract £1,122.00 which represents fees charged to this account, it leaves an actual loss to MBNA of £1242.27. Therefore the fees you have been charged are less than the actual loss incurred by MBNA through your breach of contract. This is without taking into consideration the cost to MBNA in attempting to recover this debt prior to charge off. As you can see, the actual loss to MBNA would be significantly more than the fees you have been charged. Therefore your argument in your letter that our fees are punitive and not representative of the cost or loss to MBNA clearly has no standing. On that basis, no refunds will be made. Similarly with account xxxxxxxxx, the balance was £2747.15. The fees charged to this account from April 2000 total £983.00, leaving a total loss to MBNA of £1764.15. Again no refunds will be made in respect of this account. I believe this issue has been fully addressed, and we are not prepared to review this matter further, Consequently, this is our final response. If you are still dissatisfied with this final response, you may refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service, within 6 months of the date of this letter. We will not enter into any further correspondence regarding this matter, unless instructed to do so by the Financil Ombudsman service. Yours sincerely Matt McGrath Head of Customer Assistance. " There go his toys out of the pram then!!!!!!!! I realise it's the last thing Mr McGrath wants, but I thought I might reply as follows: LETTER BEFORE ACTION Dear Mr McGrath, Account xxxxxxxxx and xxxxxxxxxxxx I apologize for troubling you, once again, on a matter which you clearly see as having reached a conclusion. However, I wanted to thank you for your arrogant letter of the 28th March, and, in doing so, make a couple of points that I felt should be brought to your attention. 1. Despite including my present address on my initial correspondence to you, and having received replies to this address from your colleagues, Rachel Nixon and Gavin Theobald, you managed to send your original letter to an address that I have not occupied for the past three years. 2. The copy of your letter, sent to me on 18th April, courtesy of Kate Galley, did not include copy statements, as per my original request, and as mentioned in your letter. In the light of the above, it becomes obvious that, because of your carelessness, personal and confidential information relating to my dealings with you are now lost, somewhere in the postal system, or have become available for others to see . I should not need to remind you that, as a bank, you have a duty to handle customer's personal information with care. This has clearly not happened. Please let me know, by return, how you intend to rectify this most unfortunate situation. Forgive me, if I now further impose upon you, at a time when I am sure you must be overwhelmed with similar demands on your attention. You mention, in your letter, the loss to MBNA caused by my breach of an unfair and unlawful contract. I have scrutinized your letter, but have found no reference to the remuneration that MBNA received when selling on my debts to 1st Direct. Clearly, this was a commercial decision, taken by yourselves, either to maximise your profit, or minimise your loss, depending on one's point of view. I make no apology for, once again, affirming that your fees are punitive and not representative of the cost or loss to MBNA. You will no doubt be aware that the Office of Fair Trading, as a result of their recent investigation into bank Charges, share my opinion. Clearly, it is your argument that has no standing. Please be aware that I have maintained regular payments to 1st Direct ever since my debt was sold to them. As I mentioned in my first letter to you, it is my intention to use the refunded penalty charges to reduce my indebtedness to you/1st Direct. Accordingly, I hereby give you fourteen days to refund all the penalty charges made to my two accounts. Failure to do so will result in my applying to the County Court for a Judgement in my favour, without further notice. Such a judgement will incur court costs and interest at the current rate of 8% per annum. By the way, I will not be taking my complaint to the Financial Services Ombudsman, despite your suggestion that I do so. As you ought to be aware, the FOS is unable to arbitrate on matters of contract law. I remain, Yours sincerely,

Last letter I had from MBNA promised a full response by 17th April, so, having received nothing, I telephoned them, this morning. Spoke to a pleasant young lady, who said that all the information I requested under the DPA had been sent out on 28th March, but to my old address (left there 3 years ago). They obviously have my current address, since all our recent correspondence has been sent here. I expressed my horror that such confidential information should now be lost, but she said that all she could do was make sure her records were updated, and send out the information once again. Don't know if there is anything I can do about it. Does anyone have any ideas?

I have a separate thread running, but, in brief, my experience with Capital One is as follows: 1. Account defaulted and passed to a DCA Sept 2002 2. Offer via DCA to accept 70% of outstanding balance in "Short Settlement", and write off remaining balance, July, 2003 3. Payment made and letter received confirming account settled, and, as far as I was concerned, closed. 4. March 2006, sent DPA request, asking for refund of penalty charges. 5. April 2006, received DPA information, showing charges of £444.00, plus interest, applied to account. Also, amongst all the other paperwork, copies of statements from August 2003 to the present day (none of which were sent to me as originals) showing an amount of £417.00 (the same amount as was discounted from the settlement figure) still outstanding. My credit reference file shows the debt as partially settled. Still trying to work out my next line of attack, bearing in mind the amount I would be claiming in charges is close to that discounted from the settlement figure. I feel they would try to justify not repaying the charges by claiming that the amount corresponds to that knocked off what I owed them anyway Not sure if any of this has any relevance to your particular claim, but, like you, I'd be interested to know if anyone else is in a similar position. Good luck

Hi Alan Prepared a letter to post to Ms Green along the lines you've suggested (thanks for the great quote), and also asking for the list of charges to be taken back as far as their records allow, bearing in mind the mortgage was taken out in 1981. Since, until now, I haven't been asked for, or paid, the £10.00 fee, I'll send that as well! Thanks, once again,

Thank you doesn't seem nearly enough, for the good that Stephen, by dint of his courage, and the other administrators and moderators of this group, for their knowledge, hard work and unselfishness, have engendered. Speaking for myself, had it not been for the publicity created by Stephen's original victory in reclaiming charges, I would still have been living with the fearful guilt which the banks had been happy to heap on my shoulders over the years. Caused by their avariciousness, uncaring attitude and enthusiasm for kicking the helpless when already down, I had been close on several occasions to total despair. If I don't manage to reclaim a penny, I will always be grateful for the feeling of empowerment, the return of self-respect and the opportunity to tweak the tails of the pompous so and so's who have made my life miserable for years. Thank you Stephen, though not (as I said to the Bank Manager) from the heart of my bottom!

Anyone got any thoughts on the above? Any opinions would be appreciated.

Received a letter, this morning, from Pam Green, Customer Relations Manager, Collections Dept., together with a list of charges going back six years. She reiterates the bank's position, that the charges are in accordance with their policy and the terms and conditions and will not be refunded. The list of charges is split into three parts: 1. Legal Costs 2. RD Cheque Charges 3. Letter Charges. Fortunately, I do have an annual statement from 2002, and so have been able to check the accuracy of their list. An item on my statement, dated 27th September, shows an arrears fee of £99.00, which did not appear on their list of charges. Accordingly, I telephoned Ms Green, who told me that this charge was actually incorporated in the list of Legal Costs and split into two charges, one for £85.00 and the other for £14.00. A similar thing had happened in December 2001. I told her that since these amounts were shown on my annual statement as "arrears fees", I would be considering them as such, and that they would be incorporated into my claim for re-imbursement, the total of which comes to £858.00 plus interest. Whether this was an attempt at damage limitation, obfuscation, or just a mistake, I do not know, but it may be worth other people, with claims concerning mortgage penalty charges, being made aware of.

Received two A4 envelopes, full of stuff, today from Katherine Blunt. Done the Excel spreadsheet which shows total charges of £444 plus £165.02 interest. Couple of interesting points arise from this: 1. The charges come close to the amount written off by Capital One in settlement (£417.34). Will this make it difficult/impossible to claim them back? 2, Amongst the mass of papers were monthly statements, dating from when the account was settled until the present day, still showing an outstanding balance of £417.34. Again, can this be used as a get out clause to prevent me re-claiming charges.

You could send it Recorded Delivery, or hand it in (get a name and signature of who you give it to) at your Branch, but I found this just gave them the opportunity to waste time by sending it on to Customer Services. I'd send it to: David Just, Assistant Manager, Customer Care - General Banking, Lloyds TSB, 125, Colmore Road, Birmingham, B3 3SF. Mark it LETTER BEFORE ACTION at the top, and I don't see any objection to sending a copy of your e-mail. Again it won't give them any excuse to procrastinate if they have all your correspondence in front of them. Good Luck!

I endorse Loula's welcome message! The wonderful thing about this site is the sense of relief and empowerment which it gives you! For many years, I used to dread the bad news the Postman would bring each day. Now, I positively look forward to the post, to see what pathetic stalling attempts the banks will try next. Talk about the boot being on the other foot! We all owe an enormous debt of gratitude to Dave, Bankfodder, Stephen and all the Moderators for the amount of work they continue to put in to make this site a force to be reckoned with, in the face of the Banks' continuing apathy towards the Law and the rights of their own customers. Once again, Welcome and Good Luck!

Oh!

Hi Janet, Thanks for your encouragement. I've posted my letter to Mr Udy, by recorded delivery, this morning. Unfortunately, I didn't send the£10.00 to cover the DPA request, until I wrote to Ms Blunt, on 25th March, so she's got until approx 5th May to reply. Nevertheless, I've done as you suggested and reminded Mr Udy of the deadline. Thanks, once again. (By the way, what does LMAO mean?)

Still no sign of my statements, but yesterday I received the following letter from Robert Udy, Executive Office Manager (another one!): " Thank you for taking the time to write to me again about the charges we've added to your account. I'm sorry you're unhappy with my reply and you feel that it was patronising. I certainly didn't mean to come across this way. As I explained in my last letter, the charges we've applied are correct. We add charges if you don't pay your minimum payment on time or if you go over your agreed credit limit. Our charges are detailed in the terms and conditions you sign before receiving your card and in your welcome pack. These terms and conditions form part of your agreement with Capital One. We believe that we provide our customers with great value and service and that our charges are fair and appropriate. I realise that you would like me to justify these charges. As you know the Office of Fair Trading are investigating the charges we add and until this investigation is complete, we will continue to charge the same amount. You mention that you've written to Ms Blunt requesting information from your account. As soon as she receives your letter, she will send the information you've asked for. I realise you aren't happy and you'll be taking this further. You can now contact the Financial Ombudsman Service and show them copies of both the letters I've sent. Their address is in the leaflet I included with my last letter. Again, I realise this isn't the answer you were hoping for but I trust I've explained things clearly and I hope you'll accept my best wishes for your future. Yours etc, " My reply, which will be posted on Monday: Dear Mr Udy, Thank you for apologising for the patronising letter (intentional, or not) sent to me on the 1st March. I feel it is very noble of you to take responsibility for a letter signed by your colleague, Lee Powell, to whom my reply was addressed. If you have any other colleagues, whom you feel would like to write to me, please let me know their names. The last thing I want is for anyone to feel left out! I note that, once again, you are unable to justify the level of your charges, other than by reference to the investigation being carried out by the Office of Fair Trading. Having employed the tactics of obfuscation and delay to, thus far, fail to refund my money, I am surprised that you did not wait one more day to hear the outcome of their investigation. As I am sure you must be aware, the OFT seem to agree with me, that the high penalty charges imposed by banks, such as yourselves, (and I know I'm starting to sound repetitive) "are unlawful and unenforceable". Furthermore, "if a charge is set below the suggested MAXIMUM threshold of £12.00, this does not make it fair". You refer to the terms and conditions of my agreement with you. As was pointed out by one learned commentator on the National News, "an unfair and unlawful contract is not worth the paper it is written on." I have, indeed, sent my request for a comprehensive list of charges applied to my account, to your colleague, Ms Blunt. I am sure that you will not be surprised that, to date, I have received no reply. I can assure you that when I do have a figure for the total sum you owe me, I shall write to you, or one of your colleagues (see above!) By the way, I will not be contacting the Financial Ombudsman Service, despite your suggestion that I do so. It is my intention to have a full refund of all these penalties, through the County Court, long before the FOS would be able to reach a decision. Also, as you ought to know, the Financial Ombudsman Service is unable to arbitrate on matters of contract law. I appreciate your best wishes for my future. I would feel they were more sincere if accommpanied by a cheque. Nonetheless, I remain, agog with eager anticipation, Yours sincerely

Received a letter this morning from Sabine Griffiths, saying that she would be unable to supply the additional information I had requested (my original contract and the direct debits that were wrongly cancelled) as: "we are only obliged to store information for a certain period of time. As a long standing customer, this information is regrettably not available any longer." Presumably this will scupper any chance of my making a DPA request for a list of charges, going back much beyond six years. I'll 'phone her on Monday to find out!

I took out a mortgage with Alliance & Leicester in 1981 and remained with them until I paid it off in 2003. During that time I had many personal problems which, coupled with their often intransigent attitude, resulted in many Admin and arrears charges, together with astronomical Legal charges, incurred on the five separate occasions when they tried (unsuccessfully) to repossess my home. So...... on the 22nd February, I sent them the Library letter and DPA request, asking for my money back and a list detailing all the charges, going back six years. This morning I received a letter from Chris Baker, Team Manager, Collections Dept, Narborough: "Although I am mindful of the exhaustive research you have undertaken into case law (NOT ME! Stephen, Bankfodder, Dave et al, to whom I will be eternally grateful) in order to challenge the Alliance & Leicester charging policy, I am comfortable that as far as the arrears charges are concerned we have acted within the law. I draw your attention to mortgage condition 18.1 enclosed, which confirms our right to charge expenses incurred in recovering any monies owed. I enclose a statement showing all arrears levied to your account since 1999 as requested." Enclosed were several A4 sheets headed "Mortgage Statement", but which were unlike any Mortgage Statement I had ever received. They dated back to 1991, and, although Legal Charges were highlighted in yellow,there was NO mention of Arrears or Admin fees. Neither was there any reference to the mortgage balance, just, on each line, a balance showing the amount in credit or, more usually, arrears. At the end of the last sheet was the footnote: "Please note that charges are added to the mortgage balance and are NOT arrears bearing. Any charges applied to your account will be shown on your annual mortgage statement." It took me quite a while to work this out, but, when I had, I telephoned the contact number at the beginning of this forum. Unfortunately this was for A & L credit cards, But the kind lady I spoke to put me through to the 0870 number I had been given. I spoke to a young lady called Helena, who sounded quite fed-up. I explained that I intended to claim back all the charges applied to my account, between 1999 and 2003, with the exception of the Legal Charges, which I might pursue at a later date, and that I had requested, under the DPA, a list of these charges, which had not been sent to me. Helena pointed out Chris Baker's comment that the charges were correct. I told her that unless Mr Baker was a legal expert, then it was merely his opinion, and that I was quite happy to let the County Court decide whether the charges were lawful, or not. Furthermore, I told her that she had until the 5th April to provide the information I had requested, or I would be issuing Court papers for a "near estimate" of the sum owed, and inform the Court of A&L's inability to furnish information, despite my DPA request, enabling me to claim an accurate amount. ( Fortunately, I do have my own Mortgage Statement for 2002, which shows charges amounting to £474.00. According to Stephen's formula, this would make a total, in excess of £2000.00.) She told me she would make sure the information, I needed would be sent off as soon as possible. I'm not going to hold my breath. I'll let you know what happens next.

Thanks! I didn't send the money but will do so today. Thanks once again.

Had an account with the above, which was settled and closed in 2002, it having been subject to numerous charges. On 22nd Feb, last, I sent off library letter and DPA request, by recorded delivery to: Customer Services Manager, Halifax Card Services Pitreavie Business Park Dunfermline As of today, I still haven't received so much as an acknowledgement. Is anyone else dealing with these people, and have I written to the correct address? Any advice would be appreciated.

She was so apologetic and sounded so stressed and miserable, I wouldn't have had the heart! (if I'd had the wit to think of it)

Hi, Bankoff, Thought about what you said, and decided to telephone Sabine Griffiths. She was very nice and apologised on behalf of the Branch and Customer Services, who had not replied to my previous correspondence. She said she had received an e-mail from Colmore Row asking for a full DPA disclosure, which was why she had got involved. She told me Customer Services should have let me have the information, re charges to my account, and that she would e-mail them asking them to do so, as a matter of urgency. I said that if she did that, then I would return her form,together with the £10 fee, as there were one or two other pieces of information (eg my original contract) that I would find useful. She did say that, what had started as a trickle (of DPA requests) had become a flood. No surprise there then!

Found out, last week, that the letter I received from Lloyds (see previous post) was regarding a credit card I had with them, and nothing to do with my current account at all. Accordingly, I wrote back repeating my original DPA request, additionally asking for a copy of my original contract. Despite my being most specific with regard to the information I required under the Act, today, I received a letter from Sabine Griffiths at the Data Protection Request Team, enclosing a four page questionaire and a request for the £10 fee. This I will do today. Can't help but feel that these are more stalling tactics being employed by Lloyds!

I'm afraid I won't know how big a proportion of the debt was made up of charges until Capital One respond to my DPA request. I'll let you know as soon as they do.

Hi Bankfodder, I've got the last two letters I received from Newman & Co, which I will scan and pm to you. Thanks