Thank you - i'll get this sent now and advise of any reply. Out of interest, do we know anybody in a similar situation as me? It seems i'm the only one that took HMRC to tribunal, sent SAR/LBA to FTR, applied for MCOL, etc.?

Hi @slick132, I've not managed to sit down with a CID officer as of yet, I plan to do so either next weekend or weekend after (I have a Christening next weekend, so may be pressed for time). I've also noticed I have until 8th October (Thursday) to respond to Tribunal/HMRC. - 14 days from 24th September. No update as of yet with anything else i.e Warrant, etc.

Hi @Ethel Street , yes, they call it a crime reference number - see attached. I tried calling 101 and was on hold for almost 40 mins so gave up. The automatic voice said that I can also go online to report it, which I did, and when you select "Fraud", it just directs you to Action Fraud's website. I've a feeling they'll say this on the phone also... is there an alternative? The webpage says: CRN.pdf

Okay - i'll give 101 a call shortly and ensure I get a crime reference number.

Is this best done via 101 or is there an alternate route? Also, is it best to say multiple people have been scammed and explain the whole situation with FTR and Alan etc? They'll try fob me off, however, what do I NEED to obtain? A crime ref number? Is that enough for me to know they've started the investigation? Or do I need them to confirm an investigation is being made? Do I mention that an alternate police constabulary is allegedly looking into it, etc?

Okay, thank you. With regards to the police, I've only ever contacted Action Fraud who gave me a crime ref number and eventually, this response: So no luck there. I would be happy to contact Police direct but wouldn't it be better to jump on Blog81's friends' case? (As per the other thread). But we don't have that info?

Hi, here is Tribunal's response:

@Blog81

Still nothing from Tribunal.

I'm curious... has the police officer said this in writing? Do you/your friend have it in writing?

Reply from the HMRC agent handling the case their side: "Thank you for copying me in to your emails to HM Courts & Tribunals Service. I will contact you again when further instructions are issued by the Tribunals Service." Suppose I'm just waiting on Tribunal's response now we've both put our cases forward.

Update on warrant - I just called the warrant number and following no answer from FTR to their "scary" letters, it was passed to bailiffs last week. It'll be around a month or so until I hear outcome. I presume this isn't going to get anywhere

No problem, will do. PS: STILL nothing back/no update on Warrant which was issued on 5th August following Judgement.

@slick132 I've sent your message on to the Tribunal in response to HMRC's response, and i've CC'd HMRC's agent as required. Will let you know once I hear back from either party. Thanks again.

Thanks Slick - I’ll get this emailed over this morning to tribunal as my response, and CC HMRC as required. Before I do, am I to add anything regarding the alleged police investigation as mentioned by Blog81?

Sent

@honeybee13 and @slick132 would you like me to DM you my full email/text threads? I've put black marker over all personal info.

They didn’t - this was just a question on the initial email which was a yes/no answer. I understood the question to be “do you understand what we are doing for you” - as in the general service - and since my friend told me they could do a tax rebate for past 3 years’ tax payments, (which is what he thought they were doing) I said yes. At no point did FTR directly tell me what they were doing, how, or why.

What’s interesting is both Alvin’s and Schipoo’s initial email - were you two not asked if the “scheme was fully explained to you”? Perhaps at different times in their ‘sign up’ process, they amended the email they sent to potential ‘clients’ to include/remove this question? You’d have to look into what times people contacted FTR and whether the question was added/removed I suppose? For example, my email was forwarded to me from a friend in March 2020 and it had that question in it and I filled it in and sent to FTR on 31/03/20

Just as an FYI, I’ve kept copies of absolutely everything - see attached png2pdf.pdf

Okay great, thank you. Again, if you’d like me to send the full email/text threads I’m happy to do so, either on here or private. Obviously redacting any personal info.

I was paid £1285.98. HMRC are asking me to pay back £3078.71 (not including interest). I have no idea how much FTR actually got. 1. Did FTR initially contact you, or you contacted them. They operate via referral scheme, so you have to be referred by someone who has already used/is using their services. Here are the questions you must answer on their "initial" email" Who introduced you - Has the scheme been fully explained to you - Name - Full address and postcode - Date you moved into your address - Date of birth - Clear copies of your 2017/18 and 2018/19 P60 - Mobile number - National Insurance Number - Have you been self employed before - If so, o you have unique tax reference number - Do you have a government gateway account - If so, what is the gateway number and password - 2. Who did you speak to at first and later. Only spoken to "agents" with generic names like "Claire" over email and text. Nobody via the phone. No surnames. 3. What did they say they could do for you. The could claim a tax rebate based on previous 3 years' tax payments. That's it. Nothing about "how", or "why". 4. What documents did you provide them with, and by what means. Full tax history which they sent instructions on how to obtain from HMRC. Then, they asked for my UTR (I presume self-assessment UTR) which they applied for and an activation code, both sent through post and I sent to them over text. 5. Did you give them info like N I No, UTR. Yes, on request. Both NI and UTR. 6. Did you sign a paper form of authority and send it to FTR. No. I signed nothing, or agreed to any T&Cs. 7. Did you agree to any T&C’s online using a Tick Box. No, as above. 8. Were you told anything about investing in an EIS. No. The first I have ever even heard about EIS is when HMRC sent their letter. HOWEVER, I have just checked my text log with them, and they did mention something about an investment. The reason being, I had gone onto my HMRC portal and saw the balance of the total "rebate". I worked out 30% of this and then asked FTR if that was the total I was to get. They said "no", and then replied with the attached message.... 9. Were you told anything about claiming EIS tax relief. No, as above. 10. Did you know FTR would be repaid any tax refund. Yes, they said they take about 70% and I'm left with 30% - ish. 11. Were you told about what percentage FTR would keep of any tax refund. As above. 12. When FTR sent you money, did they include any info about how this was made up. They advised through the process how it was calculated. And you could go on your HMRC account and see the totals. They applied for the full 3 year's tax payments to be rebated - almost as if I have never paid tax for 3 years - is how I understand it from looking at the docs. 13. Did they inform you how much of the refund they kept. Not the exact amount, no. 14. Were you shown any documents seeking your approval or signature during the process. No. The only thing they did was on the "initial referral email", which you send to them with all your details, is question 2: "Has the scheme been fully explained to you". To which, I believe we all put "yes". However, I answered on the basis my friend had "fully explained" the scheme to me, and he had no idea of EIS either. Just "they can get you a rebate". FTR had explained nothing to me, not at the beginning, during, or after. 15. Approx date of 1st contact with FTR. 31 March 2020 16. Approx date of FTR pay't to you. 24 June 2020 17. At what stage did you provide FTR with your bank details. Around 20 June 2020 Text Screenshot.pdf You can delete #18 as I have added info on #19, sorry.

Hi - I have just completed the initial questions on that thread. It may be worthwhile checking my answer to question 8, as it may be very useful to know? https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/439099-information-on-fast-tax-rebates-ltd-and-the-eis-scam/?do=findComment&comment=5129037 Text Screenshot.pdf If you want me to send you the entire text thread I can do? I'll remove any personal info of course.

Hi Slick, Do I need to respond to the Tribunal now and say this? Be aware, anything sent to them, needs to be copied to HMRC. Or am I best waiting to hear the Tribunal's decision and then challenge it if it's not a positive response? I did not send the follow up SAR. Okay great - would love to be able to do something like this. So I don't need to post anything on there for now? How do I set up alerts so I know when I need to reply/there has been a new comment for me to reply to? Thanks in advance,

Hi, I have heard from HMRC in response to the Tribunal matter. From what I understand, they are asking the Tribunal to strike-off as they feel the case has no grounds, or something similar. I have attached the full correspondence, but redacted personal names, reference numbers, etc. Any advice you can give here would be appreciated. I understand their response but just not sure on the best steps forward. I presume the tribunal now need to consider and then submit their reply/resolution? I'm particularly interested in point 19: The same is true of responsibility for his agents’ conduct. The extent to which HMRC should have relied upon the authority given to the agent, the extent to which parties other than the agent were involved and whether checks should have been made are all tax management or operational matters and again are beyond the question of entitlement to EIS relief or the calculation of the liability. HMRC are saying whether or not they had valid checks in place to allow the claim to move forward is out of the Tribunal's jurisdiction (If I understand correctly). However, this is implying they didn't have sufficient checks in place - regardless of whether it's in the Tribunal's jurisdiction or not. Is there something here to perhaps pursue through an alternate route? Just trying to understand my options now in relation to HMRC. PS: the Warrant has been issued against FTR, but I've not heard anything since. I did receive a letter saying they'd keep me updated, but nothing yet. Thanks, HMRC Response.pdf