Thank you that's most helpful.

From the notice which I am sorry I have still not been able to copy with details omitted. Quote 3. Your landlord... intends to seek possession on ground(s) 9 in Schedule 2 to the Housing Act 1988 (as amended)of each ground which is being relied on... Suitable alternative accommodation is available for the tenant or will be available for him when the order for possession takes effect. End Quote Now as far as I understand matters the Lease (Tenancy Agreement) I have comes before this provision and my Agreement says that they won't require me to move unless under certain specific circumstances. Previously they have accepted this and without any warning have issued the notice. This afternoon I shall be asking them in the most courteous way just what the hell they think they are playing at. There are two issues whether they have the right to require me to move and the way they have chosen to enforce that right. Will post back later.

Don't know how to say this but I never, well almost never, make mistakes with meeting times and dates. It is tomorrow, not today. Will be back with results then.

"All I would want to know at this time, 'without prejudice' are the details/location of the property on offer." Actually what I want to know, in view of their confliction communications, is whether they think they have the right to require me to move before discussing where I might move to. They are trying to avoid a discussion on that issue. I have followed the link on this site to the "without prejudice" meaning and to make it clear, I want information from them which they are reluctant to give and I think they might be prepared to give it on that basis. Also why assume there is in fact a property on offer? They say there is but without giving me any details, and that needs not to be "without prejudice", I am stumped. My problem is that the HA are inclined to make statements without regard as to whether they are true or not. Thank you for the information on recording. I shall need to find out how to do so as I am not very bright with electronics. For a future meeting it would be an excellent idea. "On the Notice of Seeking Possession you had, which housing act are they quoting is the 1985, 1988 Housing act or another year, there been few amendment over the years and need to make sure where reading the right one." This is probably for my solicitor but for information the notice reads "Notice Seeking Possession of a Property let on an Assured Tenancy".... and...."Housing Act 1988, section 8 as amended by Section 151 of the Housing Act 1996 and section 97 of the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014." Legal Aid is definitely off, honest it is, and I shall ask just so that I'm not making a mistake which is always possible. "Several HA's are trying to clear high rise tower blocks built in the 60's, for demolition/sale to a developer." I know and was in London when these were being built. in my case it is a house in an pleasant area which has increased in value and the HA wants to sell to a developer and dump me in the rough end of town. I do so much appreciate all the advice given, thank you. I'll have a final check when I am properly awake and in any case post back with results of meeting.

Just checking through the info and advice and 1. I can't get legal aid as I am too rich though I might try my contents insurance to see what that offers. 2. Thank you for pointing out that it is a discretionary ground and I see from my notes that Shelter advised the same. It would only come into play if they can force me to move. If they can't and they want me to move then I would like substantial compensation. 3. I can't find comprehensive details about rulings on suitability of alternative accommodation. There seem to be various cases but no overall list. So wish me well for tomorrow. Regards Rexroth

Thank you everyone. My advice that I received from Shelter over the phone was to get all the information I could from the HA so that I could give this to the solicitor and in the meantime not to agree to anything. My not agreeing to anything is clearly frustrating the HA as they want me to "engage" with them whatever that means. (I suspect it means that I must do as I am told) They do not have a current Tenant's Handbook as they are writing a new one. I did point out that until they did the current one was the one to which we needed to refer and I could not find it in my notes. I have the equality policy which I don't think helps me and I don't think there is anything else that they actually produce. I've no problem having a meeting with the one new person as I am seeking information from them not negotiating which I can do only when I have legal advice. So tomorrow we meet, I with my list of question which might be summarised as "What the hell do you think you are playing at." but worded differently and the new person who will be trying her skills as a saleswoman. It should be interesting.

Just remembered I did have an acknowledgement of my letter Dear Rexroth Thank you for your e-mail and attached letter of 20th June 2016. I have noted your concerns and can assure you that arrangements are being made to meet with you, to discuss and resolve these issues in order to make a fresh start. I would also like to inform you that we will have an alternative property ready for you to view very soon and will let you know as soon as possible. Kind regards XX Housing Officer XXHA

So I have a meeting tomorrow where I will ask the person concerned to explain obvious discrepancy between the two letters. I think they are trying it on. I would move with suitable compensation but don't like to be winkled out of a property by a supposedly social landlord. Regard Rexroth

XX Road XX City XXXX 20 June 2016 Mr XX Housing Officer XX Housing Association XX Road XX City XXXX Dear XX, I am writing to inform you that I received your undated letter NOTICE OF SEEKING POSSESSION which contains the information “Served by hand on 17th June 2016…” It was on the floor in the hallway where I found it on Friday evening. Why did you, or whoever delivered the notice not knock? I was in and was perfectly happy to sign to acknowledge service. The letter contains a Notice of Seeking Possession but does not contain a “Rent statement” nor an “Advice list” despite the fact that these are stated to be enclosed. Please would you forward these to me as soon as convenient. The service of this notice caused me both shock and astonishment as the last advice I received from XXHA was that they were not going to insist on me moving while previously I has been advised by XXHA that you could not insist on possession and at an earlier date that my home was safe. If PBXX has changed their mind, which I acknowledge they, have every right to do, it would have been in right ordering for you to have advised me of this before issuing the formal notice the service of which is somewhat premature and I regret to say accompanied by a somewhat threatening letter. Let me once again make it crystal clear to you. If XXHA is allowed by law to insist that I move I shall of course do so and cooperate in the process. This has been my position from the beginning. I shall address the issues in your letter briefly and will certainly seek appropriate advice. The letter states “The Notice is being served because XX Housing Association (XXHA) are now offering you suitable alternative accommodation which is similar to the property that you now occupy.” Fine but you are not. For the avoidance of doubt XXHA has never made me any offer of alternative accommodation nor is any offer enclosed with the letter. I am entitled to an explanation of why you state you have when clearly you haven’t and I request that you provide an explanation by return. I acknowledge that XXHA has summoned me to attend meetings to discuss where I might move and later on invited me to meetings. At these times XXHA had stated that they were not able to require me to move and later that they were not requiring me to move. I stated that as I did not wish to move and in view of the statements made by XXHA there was no point in my attending the meetings. “If you do not engage with XXHA and move out on a voluntary basis, XXHA will have no alternative but to seek possession of the property on expiry of the Notice.” As you are fully aware I have been very much “engaged with XXHA” in regard to its many breaches of my Lease and of the law. I have fat files of correspondence and many pages of saved emails. It would be tiresome to list these here. The reason I have not “engaged” as you put it with regard to moving is as I have stated above. With regard to the remainder of your letter I note what you write, advise, and indeed threaten. I shall seek my own advice over these matters. I now turn to the Notice seeking possession Obviously I shall seek advice regarding this notice however there are two issues to which I draw your immediate attention. 3. Clearly I cannot seek advice on the suitability of any alternative accommodation as none has as yet been offered for reasons stated earlier in this letter and on this matter at least I think we can agree. I again state my willingness to enter negotiation as to suitable alternative accommodation. 4. The issue of security is not accepted. The property is now less secure as a result of your personal failure to take action following complaints made to you by X and myself. I think the period now exceeds a year. The way forward I am uncertain as to what information you had when you prepared and served the Notice. X and I had written to X regarding her role as mediator. As it was a joint letter I need X’s permission to send you a copy. This I shall seek and also forward you a copy of any reply which she might send. Essentially we considered that she was biased so that her role as mediator was compromised. We regret this very much as both X and I consider mediation and negotiation as appropriate ways forward bearing in mind our X traditions and those on which XXHA was founded. XX, Head of Services, emailed me suggesting a meeting on to which I wrote a letter replying last Thursday 16 June agreeing and suggesting a “Without prejudice” meeting at XX so that X could see the place for herself. I would hope that X will agree to this meeting. She is new to XXHA and perhaps will be able to provide a new approach without the somewhat regrettable history. Also I need to inform you that I have a medical condition which means that it is difficult for me to leave my home particularly in the morning and also to attend any situation which is stressful. If you insist I am prepared to provide further medical information. I am now 72 and moving is both difficult and challenging for me. I am used to the area where I have now lived for nearly 25 years, half of my adult life. Without prejudice to my legal rights and whatever we might agree I can see that there might be more suitable accommodation including essentially my own bathroom. Again without prejudice what I would like to achieve is an agreement which would settle all outstanding matters between us and give a fresh start. I hope that you will work with me in seeking to achieve this. Yours sincerely XX

Continued from above letter reads Dear Mr XX, NOTICE OF SEEKING POSSESSION I am sending with this letter a Notice of Seeking Possession. This is the first step in the legal process that may result in you losing your home. You should read the Notice and the notes with it carefully and get advice from a solicitor, a citizen's advice bureau or a law centre. Details of advice centres are attached to this letter. The Notice is being served because XX Housing Association are now offering you suitable alternative accommodation which is similar to the property that you now occupy. If you do not engage with XX Housing Association and move out on a voluntary basis, XX Housing Association will have no alternative but to seek possession of the property on expiry of the Notice. If XXHA is obliged to seek possession of the property in accordance with the Notice XXHAwill look to recover from you any legal costs that are incurred in the process. In addition to transferring you to suitable alternative accommodation XXHA will offer you a home loss payment of £5,300. If however XXHA is obliged to seek possession of the property, the home loss payment will be set-off against the amount of any legal costs that are incurred in the process. It is therefore in your best interests to co-operate with XXHA and accept the offer of a transfer and a home loss payment sooner rather than later. You should be aware that the cost of legal proceedings could significantly reduce the amount that you receive in home loss payment. Legal cost [sic] could in fact exceed the amount of home loss payment due and you would then be liable for the remaining balance. Yours sincerely XX Housing Officer Encl. Notice of Seeking Possession, Rent statement, Advice list Signature of tenant if available (a) Date: LETTER ENDS I'll copy my reply in a moment.

Thank you so much. I do appreciate your help. I am out all today and this evening and have a meeting with them, them being a new person whom I think might have some sense, tomorrow where I will ask them the questions you suggest. After which I'll get the papers online and be in a position to know what they suggest. Yesterday I went through all the papers and found a letter August 2013 from the CEO part of which stated. "I do appreciate that you are very concerned and anxious that XX Housing Association intends to sell XX XX Road and this must be difficult to come to terms with. I do appreciate as reflected in my letter of XXMay that you have the right to stay in the property. Under the terms of your Tenancies, we do not have the right to move you to alternative suitable accommodation, as we would with a tenancy we currently issue. Therefore as we would like to sell the property, it is for us to persuade you to agree to move." and later "I can confirm we are not seeking to evict you." After that, there have been various invitations to meet to discuss moving. I declined to attend these as I did not wish to move. So I was rather shocked to receive a letter with a notice of seeking possession. This I retyped below as I have not yet been able to copy it. Sorry been called away I'll send it as another post within the hour. Regards Rexroth

Were you aware that this notice was going to be issued? No it came totally out of the blue and I was shocked to receive it. I am 72 and not in the best of health. How many flats are in the building? There were five but three tenants have moved out. The remaining tenant is a secure tenant having lived here for over thirty years. He thinks he will move but has not has a notice to do so. The remainder of the flats were left empty until about 14 months ago when they were occupied by licensees of a guardian company. Are those in the other flats in the same position? See above Has the Housing Association had a Consultation with the Residents the affects? NO! (You have got to be kidding! This HA does what it damn well pleases regardless of the law)

Do you know what type of tenancy you currently have and do you know the exact date you 1st moved in Assured and 01 Feb 1993 Can you upload a copy of the notice to the forums, blanking out any personal details Not by myself but I will ask a friend for help and do so as soon as I can Thank you Rexroth

I've received a notice stating that my landlord is offering me suitable alternative accommodation and I shall be required to move. That was two weeks ago. 1 Previously the landlord has written to me stating that they cannot require me to move and will not require me to move. 2 No alternative has in fact been offered. I've done the obvious and emailed pointing out the above and also expressing surprise at receiving a notice without warning. I have had a reply stating that they have noted what I have written. Now, what do I do? I am a Housing Association tenant and have lived in my flat for over twenty years. They want me to move so that they can sell the property and move me to a cheaper area. Any advice appreciated, please.

One good reason to belong to a Trade's Union. Try ACAS or CAB for detailed advice.

Two matters to start, estimates and quotes are different things as are insurance brokers and insurance companies.

Good, do you have the figures in writing?

Get a lawyer please for what must be a substantial sum of money.

Might I point out that the intra-link to Ombudsman gives the Financial Ombudsman Service whereas in this case the relevant body would be the Local Authority Ombudsman?

How about getting advice from Shelter and/or from a local housing advice service if such exists in your area? I would write back asking "What is your authority for the proposition that you may unilaterally alter my tenancy agreement and specifically why do you consider you have the right to make a management charge?" also ask what consultation they undertook with tenants (none I suspect). They are supposed to. Also, make a formal complaint and ask them to deal with it under their formal complaints procedure. When they don't reply or deal with it contact the Housing Ombudsman Service who will if pressed contact the Landlords.

Thanks, I can't as we share bathrooms in a house with complex tenancy/licensing arrangements. Did you ask and/or get any money back because, in view of the recent case, you should?

There are many issues here but to answer some... If a service charge is reserved as rent in the tenancy agreement then arrears of a service charge will be treated the same as arrears of rent. The HA cannot reclassify a service charge as rent but see above. If a payment is made to a HA it depends on what it was tendered in respect of i.e. was it a payment of rent or of the water charge? If a tenant does not state this then the HA can generally allocate it to whichever they like. A landlord cannot evict a tenant only a court can issue an order for eviction. There is a very strict protocol to follow with HA tenants. Having been an advice worker, a long time ago and not in housing, it was my experience that a letter from an advice agency tends to get more attention than from a private individual. Might I suggest you try Shelter for advice as to a local agency. I do in any case think that you need proper advice from a specialist agency or a solicitor to stop this nonsense. Best of luck with it all.

I seem to remember that under the 1995 Housing Act when a service charge is made on a tenancy the landlord must provide full details and evidence of their expenditure. I shall check this out. Please don't confuse this with service charges on long leases which so many people do.

Thanks, Friends, I've read the original judgement and it applies to Housing Associations who entered into a similar arrangement with a water supplier i.e. they bought the water and resold it as distinct from acting as agent for the water company.

This is what I was trying to do by asking here. What I needed to establish was whether the case applied only to LA or to HA as well.