thanks for such a quick reply and your help Bankfodder thats great. I cant even read any terms and conditions as they dont seem to be included. should i write back to barclays and tell them the account is in dispute until they product valid agreement or something along those lines? I will most certainly complain as you suggest - is this as simple as stating they refunsed to supply me the CCA? Thanks veryr much again

Hi Barry - I received a reply from HSBC from my own letter requesting charges, I wil scan and upload the pages - its only 3 pages but amounts to around £3000+ of charges thank you very much for your help

Hello, I sent a CCA request to Barclays with regards to a loan i have with them and they have replied saying; "We are pleased to provide you with a copy of your loan agreement and a financial statement. Sections 77 and 78 of the consumer Credit Act 1974 (as amended) do not require Barclays Bank to provide you with a signed original form of the credit agreement and in accordance with the Act it is not the policy of Barclays Bank to Provide this. They then include a financial statement (although very basic - doe snot include individual payments just total amounts paid and total amount outsatnding) and also included is a -'Pre contract information Fixed sum loan agreement' - Which is spread over 5 pages, no signatures and does not appear to have any T & C's included. I thought by law that we were allowed to have a copy of the original loan agreement? Thanks for any help anyone!

thanks DX - is there a template on here to SAR HSBC? thanks again!

thanks Barry ! done and In the post already! :o)

hi Barry thansk for this - do i Just write them a letter and ask for a list of their bank charges to me? Dont have to enlose a postal order or anything? thanks again

Thanks Shadow - letter typed and posted and on its way to them today! :o)

im not sure i completely understand, i have read through the information above and tried but im a bit lost. Have followed the link and read through that section but not understanding. I have sent off SAR request anyway, just in case it flags up something. I will scan and upload when it comes through. Thank you for your time and advice. Just had a letter from Welcome saying they 'acknowledge my SAR request and are processing' Hopefully have something through soon , was not expecting to hear back from them so quickly must admit, it usually taken them a while to come back to me with the 'cca's' I have received the SAR reply from WFS - its a pretty big pile of documents - what am I looking for? Does anyone know - is it the statement of price that i need to look at - I have searched through lots of threads and trying to fathom out what info i need from this pile of docs, im just not sure what im looking for in this lot! I have scanned and uploaded the statement of price and added it to my docs pdf in the first post If anyone is able to look and see if there is anything untoward i would be extremely grtaeful. I understand that occasionally Welcome have done something unlawful with arrangement fees. Is this the case with me? Today I received a 'final Demand' from Lewis Debt Recovery (having not heard anything from Welcome (apart from the SAR request and copy agreements) from some time). They have requested a payment of around £20k by the 17th May. Needless to say i am panicking and terrified of ringng these people in the fear that the will treat me as welcome did with all sorts of threats and visits to come an take things away - or me to the cash point to draw out anythng i have. If any of you experts out there can help me with this i would be grateful. I really dont want to pick up the phone. I litterally am really panicking about doing that becuase what happened all the times before that i spoke to them. They really were absolutely horrible, laughing at me on the phone when they put in me in tears and telling me tears would not pay the debt and to sort myself out in really a very nasty way. I have spent hours reading through threads on here on welcome and one thing i noticed is something about the 14 day cooling off period. I signed the agreeement on 8.2.07 and according to the statement of account the funds disbursement date was 14.02.07 - thats only 6 days. Does that mean that they did something illegal by rushing the loan through? from what i have been advised it is possible acceptance fees/broker fees that i am looking for being incorrect. I have scanned the doc if anyone can help me i would be grateful. I understand that Welcome often got these wrong and these charges could be unlawful and Im trying to find out if this is the case with me. I have a final demand from Lewis Debt recovery today for £20k payable by tomorrow and so Im paniking like hell. These guys scare the hell out of me as they put me in a very bad place before. I just want to try and find out if i might have a case against welcome for this secured loan or the professional opionion from someone on my best next step as in financial hardship on how to deal with the Lewis Debt Recovery company - does anyone know are they actually welcome finance employees? Thank you for any help I have already will continue to donate to this site does anyone know what this situation mean for people with secured loans with welcome? I have not made any repayments for 7 months and surprisingly not been chased at all following some nasty telephone harassment from them early part of last year.

Sorry taken so long to get back to you to say thank you craigers...

Hi the Shadow, thanks for replies, no nothing else through the post yet.. Is there any templates on here that i can use to basically say as you said - that they do have to communicate in writing if i request or can i basically just say what you have pretty much said. I have another creditor that is saying the same - that they can only discuss things further by telephone! .. thanks again

Thanks DX, i have done as advised and had a letter through today, as expected i guess. I think they are being unfair as they wrote to me a while back asking me to complete and income/expenditure - they didnt enclose it, i wrote back said can they send it so i can do it - thinking we would come to some arrangement, all i got back was they couldnt communicate in writing and needed me to call them and when i did they suggested i borrow money to pay them otherwise the full amount repayable - now this letter this morning. Its hardly them helping someone in financial hardship is it?! This is the letter received; --------------------------------- FINAL DEMAND Despite our previous communication concerning your debt, we have yet to date received no satisfactory response. We now demand immediate payment of £1722.60. Interest will be added on the same basis as presently applies. Any current account facilities including cards, cheque books and overdrafts you currently hold have now been cancelled. You have 18 days from the date of this letter to repay in full. Action may be taken against you through debt collectors or solicitors if you fail to comply with this demand within 18 days of the date of this letter. You may also be taken to court. --------------------------------------- Dx if you or anyone would be kind enough to suggest next move i would be grateful, am I best of waiting to hear from the debt collectors? thank you for all your help

I have read on some other posts that an agreement should show the total amount repayable i.e £47K as far as you tell there is nothing wrong with the agreement, they do not appear to have charged interest on the fees? I wonder where i should go from here - contact them or wait to hear from them! I attempt to handle arrangements myself but not paid anything towards this one since july last year - so no arrangement currently in place for this one!

bump

thansk dx - the blog is brilliant - so much useful info in there, im have printed it off and going to have aproper read through tonight - i have forward it to some friends too. thank you So do you think i should just leave hsbc and see what happens rather than try and sort something out with them Im definately not phoning them again! Am i in a position to complain to the ombudsman do you think? - in terms of claiming back some bank charges? thanks again

Hello Dadofholly, the most recent communication i had from them was the reconstituted copy which came through at the end of jan. Since last July I have sent several letters asking them for a legible copy of the agreement and they kept sending me this very bad copy. Last letter i sent them (was a templated letter from another site) saying that the loan was unenforeable becuase the agreement was illegible. Since that letter they have sent further bad copies and then most recent the reconstitutued copy but otherwise no contact from them at all. No phone calls either

no problem... I dont mind im just grateful for your time.. No I have never made a SAR with them It is going back some time and I had some serious problems when i took the loan out and so its difficult to remeber some details but i dont recall taking out ppi with them - i never took ppi out with any loan/credit card etc. I dont recall a questionaire. I did go through a broker yes, i seem to recall it being 'yes' loans. I think! I cannot remember if they explained about commision but im sure i would have noticed the broker fee at the time. I have not spoken to them since last July - everthing was in writing - i had to as on the phone they were awful. So all letters i have sent have yes been to head office (it was the local branch that i had trouble with - harrasment wise!) they sent me a recon copy of T & C's shall i scan and upload? thanks for your help.....

Hi silverfox - that certainly all looks interesting. they have obvioulsy wrongly sold PPI to an awful lot of people. I dont even know if i have paid ppi - it does not say it on the copy agreement but i can see alot of threads saying sometimes it doesnt but then its included anyway. I have found statement of account this afternoon which im going to scan and upload in a moment, im assuming the more info the better! THAKNYOU for all your help - the second thread sounds very similar to my situation I have scanned and attached in post 1 everything 1. Bad copy they have posted me of the original agreement 2. Reconstitued copy received in the post recently 3. Statement of account It looks as though an acceptance fee of £235.00 and a broker fee of £1500.00 has both been included in the oiriginal loan amount. On the 'original' agreeement (although bit difficult to read properly) is shows the broker fee on the right of the agreement, on the recon copy the broker fee has gone but the total amount borrowed is not £15000 but £16500. On the last page of the statement of account (which is the beginning of the agreeement back in 2007) it shows; first entry (14.2.07) - Loan Disbursement of £16735.00 (DEBIT) second entry (14.2.07) - Fee Disbursement of £235.00 (CREDIT) but then the total amount does not adjust accordingly with the credit. If you look at the statements that i have scanned and attached i hope you can see what i mean! I have tried to google how to work out interest but i cannot work out if they have charged me interest on the acceptance fee or the broker fee - if anyone can help here i would be really grateful - i do not know what im doing here - its complicated and the information on the agreements differs which i do not know is allowed either. Also on the recon copy it does not mention that the loan is secured on the property. Where it says 'secured on:______' - this section although completed with address on the 'original' is empty on the recon. How can you trust a recon copy when the company is so untrustworthy. Thank you for anyone that can help me!

Ok that is great - I think i understand where i need to go from here - I will write to the debt recovery company - capquest and request CCA and SAR to them at same time, thank you v.v.vmuch for this advice everyone..

thank you Dodgy Geezer and Bake for your help and advice

thank you RDM2006 im grateful for your help and advice I have not actually used the account for months now, I have had another account for a while. Its been annoying that despite not using the hsbc account that the balance has jsut been increasing, i presume from interest charges for the use of the over draft. I will write to them today and like you suggest, i will offer to repay the overdraft in small affordable amounts. do you think i should mention something about the fact im only willing to communicate in writing? (althoguh thats what i did before i they said that was not possible) thanks again for your help

Hello Craigers sorry i have been referring to another loan with welcome finance, Im not sure of the date of the citifinancial loan i will need to send a CCA reqesut i think- is this same is SAR?

Hello Craigers - thanks for your reply - the date on the bad copy is beb 2007

Its sounds familiar - welcome loan! i have not made any payments to them for about 6 months, they have been unable to send me a clear agreement, the agreement they sent is illegible, this is soemthing else i have posted on here about. Also I am expecting a tax bill in any day now and depending on if they let me set an arranegment up with them will be one of the things that determines where i go from here! Did Welcome just decide to come after you when you did not meet their payment requirements?

When I say a lot of problems, i mean problems with finance - I have been looking in to Bankrupcy, I have secured loans i cant afford etc

Hello there - no i have not sent SAR, i suppose becuase i have not heard from them for a while im worried what might happen when i get in touch, im tacking A LOT of problems at the moment and dont want to stir up another one until ive got one of the others sorted so to speak. the things is that improving my credit rating could in itself solve a lot of these problems and so its something i need to do. Is there a link to an SAR that i can send them? what might make the agreement not enforceable? thank you for your replt this morning craigers :o)