To be honest you could just as easily write out a short two-line note basically saying that East Midlands Airport is not considered "relevant land" as defined in the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and as such you are not liable as the registered keeper of the vehicle, and that they will need to take the matter up with the driver involved, yours sincerely, get stuffed. If they're stupid enough to try taking you to court knowing they can only pursue the driver, and they don't know who that was, they're idiots, frankly.

Cheers Dave. Yeah I know exactly what you mean, it's tempting to go full nuclear on them and tell them exactly why they're talking bobbins. If I did that though, it'd probably run to 4 full pages. And I get what you mean about keeping it for the witness statement later on. I'll make the tweaks you suggested for now, and wait for a couple of weeks before posting in case anything else crops up that might be fun to stick in there. Thanks CD

How's this for a first draft; Dear Parking Eye I am writing with regards to your letter dated 02/08/2023 headed “LETTER BEFORE COUNTY COURT CLAIM”. I have been following your trail of letters with a hint of faint amusement. If you really think that spending 10 minutes in a totally empty car park that you don’t even own somehow translates to me owing you £120, plus whatever further spurious charges you see fit to tack on, then you really are quite deluded. Do you really not have anything better to do with your time than try and fleece hardworking people with these poorly disguised penalty charges? I know that your business model relies on ill-informed people simply caving in and paying up when your “scary” paperwork arrives through the post. Please note though that I am not one of those people. I am not intimidated by your empty threats and rest assured I fully intend to defend myself at court if you choose to take that course of action. Oh, and for the avoidance of any doubt, since I know you’ll probably just disregard this letter and proceed with a civil claim anyway, I will be following up my defence to the court with an unreasonable costs order under CPR 27.14 (2) (g). Your move. Yours Cardiff Devil

Cheers LFI & Dave. I'll have a look around the forum for some other examples and come back when I've penned something. I'm not going to lie, I've actually been quite looking forward to this stage where I can break my wall of silence and tear a strip off them. Thanks CD

Questionaire attached, hopefully... Debt Form.pdf

Morning folks. Looks like PE have decided to skip the DCA and solicitor threat-o-grams and have sent a Letter Before Claim of their own. Please see attached. I'm guessing we're now at the "snotty letter" phase? They've also attached some kind of debt questionnaire which as far as I can tell is just something they've whipped up themselves and isn't part of anything official for the court. I tried attaching that but it went over the size limit. I'll keep trying. Thanks CD PE-LBC_Redacted.pdf

Cheers LFI. I think there's a pretty good chance that PE will try and play their hand in court. They seem like one of the most litigious parking companies from what I've read and I don't see any reason why they wouldn't chance it. What tickles me the most is that the entrance sign I posted in post #13 invites you in to the car park to read the full terms and conditions, but if you decide, having read them not to accept them and leave, their lack of any grace period means there's already a penalty charge on it's way to you. That in and of itself I reckon would get them laughed out of court and definitely will be followed by a complaint to the BPA if they decide to chance it.

Hello all. Just thought I'd fill you in with the latest piece of hamster bedding from ParkingLie. Continuing to ignore the grifters. Cheers CD PE-Letter-Jul23_Redacted.pdf

Morning Ladies and Germs. Just a quick update as promised. I was at this site again last night so I grabbed two photos of the sign at the entrance to the car park. As mentioned previously it's partially obscured by tree branches and I didn't even notice it at first when I was taking the pictures of the other signs. Interesting how the entrance sign invites you into the car park to read the full terms and conditions on the other signs, even though if you decide not to accept them and to leave, too late, they've already got you. Cheers CD Entrance Signage.pdf

No mention of POFA on the NTK, plus if it's airport land and subject to bye-laws POFA isn't applicable anyway. So they can't rely on it to pursue the keeper either way. They can only chase the driver for this charge, and they have no legal grounds or means to find out who this was. You'll probably get numerous letters from VCS, then a couple from a debt collector, then a couple from a solicitor. Unless something arrives titled "letter before claim" or very similar, just ignore it (but keep copies of all letters). If you get the LBC letter come back here for further advice.

Gotcha. I'll sit tight until then. Do ParkingLie forward the info on to any scummy DCAs, or do they just ramp up the threat-o-grams until the PAPLOC stage?

I know parking companies almost never allow appeals, as it's not in their interests to do so, but I've had much better success in the past with POPLA. I was always under the impression that just ignoring them, save for actual court papers wasn't recommended. So is it just a case of sitting tight and seeing if they send a PAPLOC and then a court claim, or is there anything I can do in the meantime?

Pictures of signage attached. Entrance sign to follow in a couple of days hopefully. Car Park Signage.pdf

Thanks LFI Yes, the car park signage is very strange. Permit only during the week and Pay & Display (via a phone app) on the weekends, apparently. I have photos of the signs in the car park itself but like a numpty I forgot to get a picture of the sign at the entrance. I didn't even notice it at first because it's largely obscured by the branches of a tree but I'll more than likely be going up to that area again later this week so I'll grab that while I'm up there next. I can't upload JPEGs so is the best way to upload the signs to paste them into a PDF and upload that?

For PCN's received through the post [ANPR camera capture] (must be received within 14 days from the Incident) Please answer the following questions. 1 Date of the infringement 23rd May 2023 2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 27th May 2023 [scan up BOTH SIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide] please LEAVE IN LOCATION AND ALL DATES/TIMES/£'s 3 Date received 1st June 2023 4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] Yes 5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes 6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/A 7 Who is the parking company? Parking Eye 8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] New Directions Holdings, Lambourne Crescent, Llanishen, Cardiff, CF14 5GL For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. BPA Just to clarify why is the advice no longer to appeal? I was not the driver and can safely appeal to PE and POPLA as the registered keeper only without disclosing who was driving. PE_NTK - Redacted.pdf

Hi all. Not my first PCN but my first time dealing with ParkingLie, and it's a bit of a strange one. Currently teaching my GF to drive in my vehicle. Our local driving test centre is on a big industrial park with loads of offices and warehouses. We go up there in the evenings and it's almost completely empty, so plenty of room for pottering about. She pulled into a small car park just off the main road to practice 3-point turns. The car park belongs to a company called New Directions Holdings which according to Google closes at 5pm. We entered the car park at 6.28pm which by then was totally empty. I did notice some parking signs but they appeared to state that pay & display charges are only applicable on Saturdays and Sundays, and because this was a Wednesday evening I just disregarded it and we carried on. We exited the car park at 6.38pm and went on our merry way. A few days ago I then received an ANPR PCN from ParkingEye stating that we now owed them £100 for spending 10 minutes in their lovely empty car park. I went back up there last night to take a closer look at the signage (which I had to get out of the car to go and read). Apparently it's "patrons only" between Monday-Friday and becomes a pay & display car park on the weekends for some reason. The "patrons" are meant to go and enter their reg numbers on a computer in reception but obviously this was not an option as the office was closed and locked up. The letter states that the maximum allowed stay time without entering your reg number is 0 hours and 0 minutes, so if you enter after the business is closed, even if it's to post a letter through the door, you're apparently buggered. The signage isn't visible from outside the car park either so if you drive in by mistake, even if you turn around and drive straight back out again, gotcha. Obviously I'm looking to challenge this but as I've never dealt with anyone as litigious as ParkingLie before. My line of thinking is; No 10 minute grace period as I'm sure they have to offer under the BPA code of practice. We weren't actually parked in there at any point. No losses sustained as the car park was empty and the premises was closed. From what I've read the method of attack is to file a one liner appeal to PE get access to POPLA, and go from there? Any other thoughts? Cheers CD

As a general rule it is not illegal to take photographs of a person in a public place, however your garden and driveway may not fall under this category. Data protection act doesn't apply anyway as this was replaced in 2018 by the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and in any case, this wouldn't apply to photographs of you as these aren't considered personal information. HOWEVER, if by taking photos of you in a public place, i.e. the village, it is causing you distress or alarm, you may have a case for harrassment or stalking. This could be considered an offence. Your best bet is to call the non-emergency line of your local police force on 101 and get their advice.

Thanks DX The only photos I have are from the original auction, and as I said the damage to the box is VERY minor. I've offered him a partial refund. Worst case scenario I'll just get the item back and have to re-list it. Hopefully I won't get such a fussy buyer the second time around. Thanks CD

Hi all. Apologies if this isn't the right place for this issue but I couldn't see a subforum for anything specifically relating to eBay sales. I sold a retro games console earlier this month on eBay. The item was shipped out via courier following payment. Since then, the buyer has gotten in touch to say that the item box was slightly damaged in transit. He's provided a photo which appears to show a slight crumple and tear on one corner. No mention of the condition of the item itself, but the buyer is requesting a full refund on the basis that it's a collectable item that's now not worth as much due to the fact that the condition of the box is now less than pristine. My options via eBay are now; Send a shipping label and get the item returned to me, then I have to give a full refund. Refund the buyer in full and they get to keep the item. Obviously I'm not going to do this. I get one chance to offer a partial refund, the buyer then keeps the item. I'm tempted to go with option 3 and offer him £20 or something to get lost. At the end of the day I wasn't selling this item as a collectable, and I'm not sure whether I'm obliged to give a full refund just for a very slightly damaged box, especially if the console itself is undamaged. Thoughts? Thanks CD

Hi DX Apologies, I was referring to their trying to claim the court fees and legal costs twice, hence my use of the term double dipping but if this means something else in parking jargon I'll refer to it differently going forwards as I don't want to confuse anyone. Cheers CD

HI DX, that's right, this particular PCN did originally go through POPLA but was lost. I'll have to check the POCs on the new claim form against the original one tomorrow and get back to you but yes, it's referring to the same ticket issued in July 2020. As I stated previously the first claim for this ticket was for around £160, then with the fees added on it was £237. This new claim has the amount owing at £237, and they've added court fees and legal fees on again for a new total of £322. Having read the replies I'm just tempted to go with the standard slimline defence to begin with, then drop the double dipping anvil on them later on in the witness statement if it gets as far as a hearing, then hopefully the judge will tear them a new one. Thanks CD

Evening all, and a belated Merry Christmas. There might have been some crossed wires somewhere here, but this claim isn't relating to a PCN that was overturned at POPLA. There were 7 tickets in total, and 5 were overturned by POPLA, leaving just two. The first failed one went to a hearing earlier in the year where the parking company lost. The details of that one are in the thread I linked in the first post. The second one was also filed as a court claim shortly before the original hearing but after they lost the first case, they chose to discontinue it. Now for reasons unknown to science, they've filed a new claim for that same second ticket, with the amount owed increased. Apologies if I wasn't clear enough in my earlier posts, I may or may not have already consumed a large amount of gin at that stage. Thanks CD

Thanks both. The CPR letter has gone off today and the AOS is done so I'm not touching this now until after the new year but I'll consider slipping that in the claim defence and see what happens. If they're stupid enough to pursue it I'll flesh it out a bit in the witness statement later down the line and hopefully see the excrement hit the fan if it gets as far as a hearing. I'm going to have a read through at the BPA's code of practice while I've got some time off over Christmas and see if there's anything in there that can trip them up. Thanks CD

Nothing received prior to this. The last thing I had from the solicitors was the notice of discontinuance for the prior version of this claim, back in October. Thanks CD

Hi Dave That's correct. They didn't include the PCN number in the particulars of claim but I've kept all the previous paperwork and double-checked it against what was sent previously. What's most astounding is the way they've taken the total amount including court fees and legal fees that were added to the previous debt, and essentially added them again. I actually really hope this goes to court as I'm sure a decent judge would tear them a new orifice for that one. Thanks CD