Thats the other question! We have online statements going back to March 2002, this account has been active since 1988. Could we S.A.R to 1988? Is there a template for this? Also can we reclaim charges from 1988? Many Thanks Jogs

After reading these boards for a few weeks now and finding that I really enjoy it, would anyone be able to recommend this course? Starting with law - Open University course Many thanks Jogs

Sorry for the delay I have a real dislike of this bank, they nearly ruined my life with Bank charges (up to £300 a month in some cases) which made me very ill. After recovering and looking at my paperwork and these EXCELLENT forums, I feel I am once again strong enough to commence proceedings. Just a quick question What I require I calculate that you have taken £XXXX plus a further £XXX which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken. Total £XXXXX . I enclose a schedule of the charges which I am claiming with this letter. DO I claim all overdraft interest on the account, even if I had an agreed overdraft limit? Many thanks JOgs

I'd never speak for someone else, but I only knew about unjust enrichment because of Steve. He's posted 11# I think that should enlighten you. Hope this helps. Jogs http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/capital-one/50003-havinastella-capital-one.html?highlight=havinastella

Just a quick thought! If you have arranged to pay the DCA and you want to pay off the debt, would your best course of action to S.A.R the account and work out what charges you have paid and reclaim these? Jogs

Does "unjust enrichment" not come into force here? You get the DCA to close the account due to no proper agreement, but then claim back charges for THAT said account! I'm new and learning so may be (and will be) completely wrong

Thanks again for the replies. Yes, it's CC charges, Capone and cabot. Having trawled through all the threads it just seemed that after Capone paid the charges back the case was closed, but, with the DCA's the thread's seemed to just go around in circles. I just hadn't really seen anyone ask the question on what was the best option to take. Jogs

Thanks for the quick responses. Not sure I worded it right or I will this time If the CCC repays the bank charges and for arguments sake the debt is £500, they repay £650, £500 goes to close account, £150 into pocket and account is closed. On the other hand DCA's state it is a "proper" agreement, we argue it's not, it goes around in circles for ever and you always have the threat that debt will be sold on again and again and again. So is reclaiming the charges a more likely way to make the "whole" debt disappear? Sorry if this seems a strange question! Jogs

Have read every thread on here and need to ask a question. What is the best was to go with the dispute? It seems if the DCA send you an "unenforceable" agreement they can still keep going around in circles, passing the information (or selling) to other DCA's starting the whole process all over again. or I admit the amount owed, claim back all the charges, make a few quid and the CCC, close the whole episode down. Is this a correct assumption? Many thanks Jogs

*beaten to it* But that is one kick ar$e letter Scott!

Above letter sent 29/04/08

Once again, many thanks BRW. I found the same agreement in another thread and will be using this letter. I refer you to my letter dated XXXX. In that letter I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, fully executed credit agreement for the above numbered account under section 77(1) and section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act. In addition a statement of my account should have been sent along with any other document mentioned in the credit agreement. You have sent me a photocopy of an application form which you purport to be the alleged "Agreement". This alleged “Agreement” is missing one or more of the prescribed terms. This makes the alleged “Agreement” invalid and therefore unenforceable. Any default notices or adverse comments your company have recorded on my credit reference file should be immediately removed as such data is wholly inaccurate and in contravention of schedule 1, Part I (4) of the Data Protection Act 1998 ("Data Protection Act 1998") "Personal data shall be accurate and, where necessary, kept up to date" Failure to remove the offending data will result in court action under Section 14 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to obtain a court order for the destruction of said data and compensation under Section 13 of the Data Protection Act 1998 . Since you have no valid Agreement I insist that you confirm that the balance on the alleged account is set to zero, or else I will report you to the OFT for non-compliance and a likely penalty of £2500. Once the OFT have prosecuted I will request that you are not fit to hold a licence under CCA and request its removal. Failure to respond favourably to this letter within seven (7) days of receipt could result in legal proceedings being commenced against your company. Yours faithfully Jogs

Good luck CF. Jogs

Thanks BRW, First post in Crap One ICY -V- Capital, had everything I needed. Also a copy of that second page on there. Jogs

OR Dear Sirs Ref account ************** With regard to the documents that you sent me in relation to my request for information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, I am still waiting for the signed executed agreement. You seem to have sent me an application form and a somewhat recent copy of your terms and conditions. I’m sure this must be an oversight, so I will ask you again for the proper documents. I draw your attention to section 61 of the consumer credit act 1974 (an excerpt enclosed for your perusal) in that “(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner.” Be also advised that your statutory time period has elapsed and YOU are now in default and very shortly you will have committed a criminal offence. As you are now in default NO further action can be taken on this account until such a time as the original SIGNED EXECUTED documents are made available to me. This account is still in dispute and I still forbid the passing of any data to third parties, if any data has been processed illegally since my last request I shall take appropriate action. Further if you cannot supply the proper documents and you have entered any defaults against my name I require that you remove them immediately.

Thanks All, will trawl the boards when I get back from work. Looking at both photocopies supplied, there is no reference to late payment charges/over limit fees etc. I am a little confused, IF they have a copy of my signature, why would they not have a valid CCA? Sorry for sounding a bit thick. Jogs Have looked more into these photocopies and can answer my own question now Looks like its the application for the credit card and NOT the CCA, so now I'll send :- Thank you for the information you sent following my request under the CCA 1974. However, I made a request to you on .... for a copy of the executed agreement applicable to the alleged debt. Under the CCA s77/78, you are obliged to send me a true copy of the actual credit agreement but have only sent me a copy of the initial application form. A regulated credit agreement contains all of the prescribed terms, other required information and statements of my statutory rights. I would therefore be obliged if you would send me a copy of that document as soon as possible. Yours Is this correct? Once again, many thanks for all of your time and effort. Jogs

Hiya Stephen, thanks for replying. Sorry about the quality of the pictures. These are two separate A4 photocopies, 15 shows typed name and address and Signature + date. 16 Is some spill on Credit agreement act 1974! Many thanks Jogs

Ok, How's this? Monday, 28 April 2008 Littlewoods Finance Company Ltd Aintree Innovation Centre Park Lane Netherton, Bootle L30 1SL Dear Sir or Madam Account Number x x x x x x x x I note from my records that your company passed a debt that you allege I owe, to Moorcroft Debt Recovery Ltd, Ref : xxxxxxxxxxxxx (xxxxxx) sometime before 04/01/07. Moorcroft contacted me to arrange payments for this debt and in my confusion I arranged to pay them £30 a month, with the first instalment before 08/02/07. Payments were made on this alleged debt until December 2007 when Moorcroft asked for payments to be raised to £35, which I agreed and paid up to April 2008. All through these payments, your inept, incompetent and inefficient Company has had no idea that you had passed the debt on and have been continuing to add late payment charges and penalty charges. Despite phoning your Company on more than 40 occasions and asking for someone to look in to this problem, it has escalated and incredulously you have now passed this account to NDR, Ref : xxxxxxxxxxxx. With regard to the documents that you sent me in relation to my request for information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974,(copy enclosed for easy reference) I am still waiting for the signed executed agreement. You seem to have sent me an application form and a somewhat recent copy of your terms and conditions and a very recent copy of an agreement form unsigned by anyone. I’m sure this must be an oversight, so I will ask you again for the proper documents. I draw your attention to section 61 of the consumer credit act 1974 (an excerpt enclosed for your perusal) in that “(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner.” Be also advised that your statutory time period has elapsed and YOU are now in default and very shortly you will have committed a criminal offence. As you are now in default NO further action can be taken on this account until such a time as the original SIGNED EXECUTED documents are made available to me. This account is still in dispute and I still forbid the passing of any data to third parties, if any data has been processed illegally since my last request I shall take appropriate action. Further if you cannot supply the proper documents and you have entered any defaults against my name I require that you remove them immediately. I also understand that under the Act, due to your failure to comply with my statutory request you or any acting agent are unable to enforce an agreement therefore I am ceasing any further payments forthwith and will seek to recover any payments made to date, my calculations show £510. Data Protection Act (Data Protection Act 1998 Furthermore under the Data Protection Act (D10), you are also denied the authority to pass on any of my personal data. To do so in the circumstances is I understand a breach of the Data Protection Act 1998, and also the OFT guidelines, and should you ignore my request it would again result in you being further reported to the relevant authorities. I also require that you remove all my data from your files within the next 7 days and look forward to receiving a letter from you within 10 days confirming that you have complied with this request.

BTW, this was what they sent for the C.C.A. Is it correct? Jogs

well the phone calls have begun from Cabot, have told them that we will be contacting them only via letter and have asked them to stop calling. Do I need to send the account in dispute letter and start the court proceedings? Many thanks in advance Jogs

*Update* Low and behold, Crap-One had a copy of the signature, so, as they can prove the debt we now have to go down the reclaim route. Cap-One sold this debt to Cabot on 7 Aug 2007 with an outstanding balance of £635.13. I have worked out that charges on the account amount to £648 before interest. Do I need to put the account into Dispute and let Cabot know that I will not be paying them one penny as the charges out-weigh the debt owed. Many Thanks JOgs

got a reply from Littlewoods finance dated 22/03/08, surprising as we only contacted NDR, (copy of what we would have signed etc) They are unable to locate agreement and quote outstanding balance of £752.17 Arrears £726.29 payments in the last 12 months NIL. Now as we have paid Moorcroft more than £500 and only have £140.17 left it's nice to know that this company still has no idea whats going on! We have decided to pay up the debt as its nearly paid and will start reclaim charges which total nearly £1000! Jogs

Right, had a reply from Cabot dated 26/03/08, original lender is experiencing a delay in finding the information requested. As a gesture of goodwill, account has been put on hold Now both amounts (outstanding) and (charges) are about the same, so what is the best route to take? Reclaim charges or disassociate ourselves from the debt? Thanks Jogs