Presumably you would be asking teh bank to disclose EXACTLY how they make up the charges and this is where they would try to find a way out of this disclosure or settle out of court??

Im on day 19 after refusing just under half.

Im still progressing my claims against Natwest and Barclays but had a quick look at some of my credit card statements (only found the odd one or two). I have MBNA, Natwest, and a couple of others being managed by paylink. I was most surprised to see how much the penalties added up to on just these few statements. I was ALWAYS a late payer and MBNA for example charged £25 for late plus £25 for extra interest EVERY month. I had that card over 6 years and probably late paid 8 out of 12 months. This debt has been sold on to DLC debt recovery so i think i might have to send a DPA request. Does anyone know if once the debt has been sold on can they get arsy?? Thanks

HI, I had no problems getting the statements however there were a considerable number of duplicates ensuring that i had to re-do the spreadsheet a few times. I have filed my claim and they have acknowledged saying they will defend. Now the OFT has made thier announcement we'll see what they do next. I have noticed that Natwest havent appeared in the litigation section very often (twice i think including mine) is this because they are dragging out the process? they do seem to tough it out more than the others. Still i will get it all back in the end.

ust to try to put bank charges into a normal business scenario: I own and run a pizza takeaway. I dont give credit but say i did and say this occurs: I have a customer who always has a 14" pizza costing £10 every friday. He collects this but it is paid for by his mother who deposits £10 with me every thursday. This thursday she forgets He has his pizza I can a) Give him his pizza, send his mothr a letter saying that she didnt have funds so i am charging her £30 for the credit plus 5% and i still want my £10 b) i can refuse to give him his pizza, send his mother a letter saying that she didnt have the funds and i am now charging her £38 for not giving her son the pizza. What if in scenario a - she auto deposits the £10 and doesnt realise that she missed a payment and doesnt read my letter. She owes me £40 (plus interest) next week gives me £10 reducing the debt to £30 (lets forget the interest im making a fortune now) son has his pizza (i let him have it and told the staf not to even think about it just do it automatically) send a new letter saying didint have enough funds another £30 plus the £10. She doesnt read the letter ....... What if in scenario b - i refuse his pizza on the Friday and send the letter for £38 but he comes back on Monday, i still refuse to give him a pizza and send another letter for £38 on weds he comes in again but this time my manager lets him have the pizza - i send a new letter saying i did allow so need £30 plus teh £10 in one week ive made £116 (plus interest) Shit - im going to offer credit to all my customers i need never make a pizza again

I currently have a number of outstanding debts being managed by Paylink. These include MBNA credit card, loan, Natwest credit card, Egg loan, GUS, and a couple of others. Natwest converted my OD to a managed loan but all of the others get a minimal payment per month until i am in a position to settle. I am currently claiming against NAtwest bank for £2K and also barclays for £600. I have decided NOT to pursue the cards and loans until after the outcome of the other two cases. All of them charged me variuos fees so ALL could see some claim in the future, HOWEVER, due to the amount of money owed by me to them it will be (probably) more beneficial for me to offer a full and final settlement when i have funds to do so. The options on this are to use a debt agency that clears teh debt in 60 months or a 3 month IVA which will clear them providing i can find 25% plus a 5K fee. The alternative is to talk to each individually and see what they will take. I am advised that this could be anything from as little as 10% to 50%. So in my case i wont rock teh boat on the managed debt even though there could well be enough in panalties to settle some of them. So far my other actions have not affected my dealings via paylink and these other debts.

Checked status of claim today. Natwest have aknowledged as of 28th. Gives them a further 28 days to defend i suppose. Now at that nervous stage - They have acknowledged and have ticked the - I intend to defend all of this claim box. According to the steps they will either now - pay up, wait until the last minute of the 28 days, and pay up, miss the deadline and have to pay up or file a defence and take me to the court. F*** hope they pay up. Soon! Barclays are cracking a bit though (see thread in Barclays) have offered just under 50% of that claim. REfused of course!!

Today resieved an offer of £300 as full and final settlement. A gesture of goodwill. Looks similar to other letters from Barclays but it has moved up the ladder a bit. I started this claim at branch. Customer services took it on with the usual see the T's and C's but this is now from Karl Voller at head office customer relations (have posted his address on one of the contacts threads). This is probably a response from the claim filed last week. Have declined his offer due to the extra costs and embarrassment at teh bank and want my £641.26 IN FULL!!!!! (well Jo (my partner) does.)

Recieved a goodwill offer from Karl Voller Customer RElations Manager Head Office Customer Relations London E14 5HP So perhaps he has some clout - a name at least.

Times up - Just filed claim via Money Claim for total £561.81 inc interest plus £80 cost. Coincidently Jo has just had a phone call from the business accounts manager in response for an application for an overdraft on the business account. Guess what - cant have an OD because of her personal account. however if her personal account wasn't in dispute they might reconsider her application!! Too late!!!!

Today filed via Moneyclaim. Total £1931.22 Inc interest Plus £120 court costs.

Delay delay delay!!! Our letter has moved up to a Customer Service Advisor now. Very sorry for the level of service they are "looking into our concerns" and reckon they will give us an update no later than 10th April!!! they also very kindly enclosed a leaflet explaining how Barclasy works to resolve complaints. I know a better way I will now send a pleasant letter back to him explaining that weve been more than patient enough and will be filing a claim on Monday.

This morning recieved two letters from banks - one from barclays (see thread under Barclays) and one from Nat west. Natwest bank manager is thankuing me for my letter and are sorry for the dissatisfaction they still believe their charges are "fair, reasonable and transparent.We consider tht the amounts debited to your account have been applied strictly in accordance with your agreement with us and our published tariff, which we are satisfied, complies with all applicable laws and regulations. we are also committed to ensuring the transparency of the informationthat we give to our customers about the operation f our products." They go on.. "However, if you disagree, please let us know the date(s) and amount(s) of any particular items thta you dispute. we will be pleased to reinvestigate. Unless we hear from you in this regard, the charges debited to your account must stand." My lettr before action gave them 14 days - 6 to go. I will respond to this letter giving them a copy of the items in question, ask once again for a breakdown of their 'transparent' costs and advise thta i will file my claim as planned should they not refund in full. 8)

This is the letter I used a version of the lawyers letter in General. Our Address Their address LETTER BEFORE ACTION Dear Mr J Smith Penalty & unfair charges – request for refund for Jo-Ann Anderson Sort Code xxxxxx Account xxxxxxxx Having just come off the phone with the debt recovery department and a very condescending man (fortunately for him I did not take his name) I feel that I MUST take this further. I am aware that my account went overdrawn to a sum approaching £1000 without having an agreed overdraft. I have had several discussions with the bank re this and have asked repeatedly for an overdraft facility of £1000 as money goes in and out of this account at odd times (I am self employed with a business account with yourselves). In the main bills of aprox £2500 go out and that is covered by ingoings of the same amount. This was explained to the man on the phone who at one point said ‘WE pay your mortgage’. Firstly I would point out that I pay my mortgage AND I PAY YOUR PENALTY FEES. Secondly if you had given me the agreed overdraft I would have no penalty fees and the account would now be in credit and I wouldn’t have had the conversation that has forced me to seek advice in this matter. I have calculated that since the account was opened a sum of £650 has been charged to my account and I am of the view that your charges represent a penalty and are therefore irrecoverable at common law. In the Scottish case of Castaneda and Others v. Clydebank Engineering and Shipbuilding Co., Ltd. (1904) 12 SLT 498 the House of Lords held that a contractual party can only recover damages for actual or liquidated losses incurred from a breach of contract. This is also the position in English law: Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79. Your charges do not reflect any actual loss, instead they appear to represent a lucrative profit-making scheme. In particular, charges were applied after I entered into a transaction(s) without sufficient funds in my account. Actual loss is the cost of automatically sending me a computer generated letter. I would respectfully submit that is valued at no more than 50 pence. UK banks have recently given evidence to the House of Commons Treasury Committee on how bank charges are calculated: "The costs are going to pay for all the people we have who pursue debt, collect debt, speak to customers and chase payments. The way these charges are arrived at is by taking these total costs and making some assumptions about the volume that is going to come through to arrive at the individual charges" (2nd report, 25 January 2005, paragraph 50). Accordingly, the charges applied to my account are not a reasonable pre-estimate of the bank’s loss in relation to my account. No-one has had to look at my account or telephone me. No one has had to collect anything. Your charges would appear to represent a device to recover global losses (for example, loan defaulters, bad debt write off, including commercial lending in, and outwith, the UK). On a separate note, your charges appear to represent an unfair term of contract which is contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (SI. 1999/2083). My account falls within the ambit of Regulation 5 of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 as I am a consumer. Your charges constitute an unfair penalty under reference to paragraph 1(e) of schedule 2 of the said regulations: ‘Indicative and non-exhaustive list of terms which may be regarded as unfair - 1. Terms which have the object of effect of - (e) requiring any consumer who fails his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation’. 0n 26 July 2005 the OFT stated that 'a charge is likely to be disproportionately high if it is more than a court would be likely to award if the lender sued the cardholder for breach of contract'. Because your charges include a large profit margin, in addition to actual loss, they are irrecoverable as an unfair term in contract. I believe that your charges require me to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation for incurring a transaction(s) which was ultimately declined by an automated computer system. In addition, it is unfair to require me to subsidise your global debt recovery costs and debt write-off. Please refund these charges to my account within the next 7 days and reimburse me my costs as per the administration invoice attached. I reserve the right to commence court proceedings without any further notice. Yours faithfully J Anderson Have also invoiced them £50 for time and inconvenience caused. :twisted:

Hi All, My Partner has a business account, savings account and a current account with Barclays. The current account has, over a period of several months, become overdrawn. the reason for this is the charges incurred as they wouldn't give her an overdraft. Jo spoke to her bank yesterday to advise them that she was ever so slightly unhappy and wanted an overdraft facility. Told to talk to someone higher up, so she did. Today. Was told thta her cards has now been stopped along with her credit card because she is £600 overdrawn. She tried explaining that being self employed money comes in at odd times and also got in about the charges have made her overdrawn. The man on the phone, she didn't get the name unfortunately, said 'We are paying your mortgage' at which point Jo 'lost it'. I am now sending a letter before action demanding that £600 charges are refunded, that WE pay our mortgage AND their charges and will also invoice them an administration fee for having to cancel direct debits and the inconvenience. Will also mention that they should NOT take money from the business account to cover the personal overdraft as that is a threat against her livelihood which would open an entirely new can of worms. All she wanted was an overdraft facility!!!

Hi, ive been online for about 45 minutes. Membership now at 3452 was under 3400 when i logged in!! Be nice to get 10000 members and have them ALL file actions. Guy

Hi, ive been online for about 45 minutes. Membership now at 3452 was under 3400 when i logged in!! Be nice to get 10000 members and have them ALL file actions. Guy

The £1573 is without the interest. Have given them the opportunity to pay but advised them that interest and costs will be applied if i go to court. That brings it up to over £1900 8)

Recieved statements at the weekend and put all the charges into the spreadsheet. Natwest owe me £1573. Have sent a letter b4 action asking for full refund else i will pursu in the courts.

Hi all, I recieved a response from Natwest today, Similar letter to pothers around on the Forum this one directly from my bank manager. Usual stuff, have reviewed ypour account.... correct in our policy....We will NOT be looking to refund the charges.... Will send the last 6 years statements. Followed by a list of charges and bank procedures. Am now awaiting the statements ready for stage 2. Guy

Hi all, I recieved a response from Natwest today, Similar letter to pothers around on the Forum this one directly from my bank manager. Usual stuff, have reviewed ypour account.... correct in our policy....We will NOT be looking to refund the charges.... Will send the last 6 years statements. Followed by a list of charges and bank procedures. Am now awaiting the statements ready for stage 2. Guy

Amended the letter and re-sent ensuring date ok. Sent it recorded delivery just to be sure. Now will wait and see.

Amended the letter and re-sent ensuring date ok. Sent it recorded delivery just to be sure. Now will wait and see.

Hi All, I sent an amended version of the template to the manager of my Natwest bank on Weds last week. After reviewing said letter (after it was sent) i spotted that in my eagerness to get even i hadnt dated it!! So having given them 40 days to send me the list of charges they have an out in that there is no from date on the letter. Should i wait and see if they respond or should i resend possibly higher up the chain and via recorded delivery? Guy

Hi All, I sent an amended version of the template to the manager of my Natwest bank on Weds last week. After reviewing said letter (after it was sent) i spotted that in my eagerness to get even i hadnt dated it!! So having given them 40 days to send me the list of charges they have an out in that there is no from date on the letter. Should i wait and see if they respond or should i resend possibly higher up the chain and via recorded delivery? Guy