Godmother - i notice you have had some success with Westcot. I also have another MBNA debt with westcot and also another MBNA with Hillsden. I havent made any aproach to these as yet as really waiting to see what happens with this one and also one really bad headache is more than enough. Should i make a CCA request on both of these? I would imagine that the court may take the view that if i am not questioning at least the other MBNA account held with hillsden then why the current claim.The sums involved are paltry compared to this claim - but... Guy

Citizen, The Application forms declaration section refers to 'Conditions of use as set out overleaf..' Godmother - The conditions as set out overleaf have not been sent inspite of several requests - i have asked for these at least twice. Have copies of letters sent to Hillsden. Guy

Wow!! Ok - long hand be this will. Just so everyone has the sequence straight. Hillesden filed a claim way back - my defence was very simply almost a one liner with they have failed to comply with a CCA1974 request so they are unable to commence or continue with legal action. The case was stayed until last month. THey now have an application notice applying for a summary judgement based on: 1. On 20th April 1994 the defendent entered into a credit agreement with MBNA. I hereby exhibit "CP1" a copy of the agreement. 2. On 21st June 2005 the outstanding balance of £12432.19 was transferred to the claimant as part of a large portfolio by way of legal assignment. I hereby exhibiy "CP2" a statement of account and "CP3" a copy of the assignment. 3. The Defendentmade a request for documents under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 which was received by the Calimant on 31st Oct 2007. In accordance with the regulatory statue, the claimant sent a letter to the defendent on the same day acknowleding the request and enclosing a copy of the assignment. I exhibit a "CP4" a copy of the letter. 4. Due to the date of the agreement the document had to be retrieved from archive store. The claimant wrote to the defendent every 21 days in line with the CCA updating hime of the progress of his request. I ..... "CP5" copy of the letter. 5. In May 2008 the paper documents were received by the Claimant and subsequently forwarded to the defendent on the 28th May 2008. ...."CP6" copy of the covering letter. 6. As the request for documents has been satisfied the points raised by the defendent in his defense are no longer valid. 7. The defendent does not dispute liability for the amount outstanding only the claimants entitlement to recover it. The Claimant has complied with eth Consumer Credit Act 1974 and provided the Defendent with documented proof of their entitlement to recover the balance. 8. It can only be assumed that the defendent is not in a position to pay the amount owing in full, or even make realistic installment payments. Our intention of issuing a claim was to obtain judgement against the defendant for payment of the full amount forthwith and then to apply for a charging order on the defendants interest in the property. 9. If we are successful in obtaining a CO there is absolutely no intention to seek to enforce it by applying an order for sale, nor to use it as a lever to try and force the defendent to make payments he cannot afford. We merely wish to register the CO so that if the property is sold sometine in the future then hopefully the will be sufficient equity to enable the debt to be repaid. 10. I therefore submit that the defendant has no valid defence to the claim and request that summary judgement be entered for £10983.19 plus £190 Claim fee, £100 claim costs, £75 Application fee and £210 Summary Judgement costs, Minus £219.86 paid by the defendant, a total of £11339.33 payable forthwith. Take NOtice that if the defendant wishes to rely on written eveidence at the summary judgement hearing, he must file written eveidence at Court and serve copies on the Claimants solicitors at least 7 days before the hearing. My points against this so far are :- 1. they keep saying a copy of the agreement has been sent but it is in fact a copy of an application form. The copy of assignment does not mention my name or account details it is a bulk generic peice of paper. 2. The selection of MBNA statements are in no way complete starting in early 2002 but with a final transfer statement showing the the balance was transfered out. 3.they did indeed write every 21 days. 4. They sent me paperwork as desribed above - assoinment, statements and application form. 5. No change in defense - they have not satisfied the CCA as far as i can see. 6. I do not dispute the debt - i had the money and spent it butsurely it is up to them to proove that i should be paying them! 7. True i cannot pay in full - i was paying them in installments via Payplan. Prior to the claim. I stopped when the original claim was received. 8. Fair enough. 9. I cannot balance their figures to mine - they are claiming £10983.19 plus costs less £219.86. My recvords at Payplan show i have paid over £1600 since the start. My original defence did ask for all statements and paperwork that they would rely on in court. It may have been very wishy washy but i would have expected a copy of their statements for my account as i have been paying someone!! OK - i have read a lot of threads along these lines - There are many where an application has been valid but not with all of the prescribed terms. This is a 1994 and the copy sent does not have all of the terms. the Ts and Cs are referred to and were probably on the reverse but i have no copy. Presumably once accepted a copy of the agreement would have been sent to me but i have not got one nor have they sent one. wilson also seems to be very popular. what i need to do now is work out a plan of attack and i would assume that the strongest areas are with the application and non conforming and also the amount owing. Thanks for taking the time to read - if you needd further info please ask. Guy

Hi , Back again. Have had a response from the courts - i have an hearing on the 7th November. For a summary judgement. Hillesden have stuck to thier original block of paperwork. They are insisting that they have complied to the CCA request. And are relying on a generic deed of assignment - no specific listing of my account or even name and address. They do have some statements from MBNA with the account and payments etc. They have a photo copy of the front page of the application form with a handwritten account number on it. I could do with a little guidance now on how to address this please. My thoughts are to apply to this company for a CCA request on another MBNA account they are collecting on - Reasoning if they can only produce an application form for one then they will probably only find the same for the second. This should provide doubt as to which account the current application form applies to. I also have another MBNA debt being handled by another DCA - it is reasonable to say that the application form they have could in fact be for any one of these MBNA debts - the only connection to the statements being the hand written account number. It is also possible that this application is in fact in relation to one of several made at the time which failed to result in a credit card. The point is at this hearing do i need to slam their arguments with doubt as to the connection of all documnets or do i just simply push the fact that they have failed to produce an agreement / application form which has all the presribeds terms of the request?? Help please. guy

Times up - sending the AQ with draft directions and other info today. Have added that i will be making an application to amend my defence on production of the docs. Will just wait and see now.

Hi, I am in the process of completing the AQ as per various threads. There appears to be differing opinions on whether to tick Y or N on the settlement section. I am inclined to go with Y just on the basis of getting some extra time to get my act together properly. What do you think? Witness should just be my name and to all facts ?? As this claim is £10000 fast track. proposed directions and other info is as per PT's sticky as follows In the Penzance County Court Claim No: Between them - Claimant and xxxxxxxxxx - Defendant Draft Order for Directions The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court: • Copies of the Full Credit Agreement and any documents referred to within it which complies with the consumer Credit Act 1974 and all subsequent regulations, which the claimant seeks to rely upon • Default Notice compliant with s87 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) as amended, • Document, contract or deed of assignment • Notice of assignment, with proof of service of the same compliant with s196 of the Law of Property Act 1925. • Copies of any statement or other document relied upon If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order. The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve the following • An amended defence sufficiently particularised in response to the documents supplied by the claimant If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the Defence will be struck out without further order. Them V Me Claim No: Section H - other information If the court is in agreement, the defendant respectfully requests that special directions may be given as per the attached draft order. The defendant proposes these directions in mind of the Overriding Objectives, and in particular the duty of the parties to help the court further them. The issues outlined below are the crux upon which this claim rests, and the proposed directions identify these issues and will allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously; without production of the requested documents, I am at a disadvantage and am unable to serve a proper defence. Failure of the claimant to supply the requested documentation will make the case much harder for the court to deal with as without production of the requested documentation will inhibit the courts ability to deal with the case. The House of Lords in the case of Wilson v First County Trust Ltd - [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) made it clear in paragraph 29 of LORD NICHOLLS OF BIRKENHEAD judgment 29. The court's powers under section 127(1) are subject to significant qualification in two types of cases. The first type is where section 61(1)(a), regarding signing of agreements, is not complied with. In such cases the court 'shall not make' an enforcement order unless a document, whether or not in the prescribed form, containing all the prescribed terms, was signed by the debtor: section 127(3). Thus, signature of a document containing all the prescribed terms is an essential prerequisite to the court's power to make an enforcement order. The second type of case concerns failure to comply with the duty to supply a copy of an executed or unexecuted agreement pursuant to sections 62 and 63, or failure to comply with the duty to give notice of cancellation rights in accordance with section 64(1). Here again, subject to one exception regarding sections 62 and63, section 127(4) precludes the court from making an enforcement order. Its is respectfully requested this case be allocated to the small claims track, it is a straight forward case and is easily resolved on production of the required documentation by the claimant, should the claimant not have the documentation required to progress this case I suggest that there will be no case to answer Therefore it stands to reason that this document must be disclosed before this case can progress any further Should i also send to the court a letter explaining that some documentation has been recieved - ie a copy of the application form, a generic deed of assignment and some statements from MBNA?? They believe they have complied to the cca Request however All the paperwork shows is that i made an application, they have a statement which shows activity in my name and a generic assignment. There is no direct connection between either the application or statement and therefore the deed of assignment other than a handwritten account number on the application. It may also be useful to know that this particular company are also collecting payments from me for another MBNA debt and i have a further MBNA debt running with another agency - This means that there are at le4ast THREE MBNA applications in existance can they prove that the application form they have is for this particular debt and is this relevant anyway. Thanks for help

Question, Before Hillesden went for the charging order i was paying (vai Payplan) £43 a month towards this debt. Payplan current balance is less that the claim by about £1000. does the fact that i was actually paying this company money damage my defence and , on the other hand, does the fact that the amounts differ help my defence. Also just been reading Joqhurs thread with Cabot which is really quite scary! Guy

Thanks, Will follow up on the threads suggested. The original deafults for this go back three years - started fighting the charging order litigation on this over a year ago. Have now found a dedicated MBNA forum on here now which is looking very good as well. I will be comnpleting the allocation questionaire as per one of the other threads here with the directions to the court. Will post for perusal once completed. Guy

Hi Multay, Cant upload have no scanner, however, the copy they sent me is a faxed copy from MBNA, there are none of the prescribed terms and no copy of the terms and conditions. If the doc was faxed from MBNA the terms and conditions and probably the interest rate etc is probably on the reverse. But as yet and inspite of repeated requests for this i have not seen a copy of the reverse or terms etc. It is therefore feasable that they would produce the original in court with all the proper terms etc. Guy

Anyone? Judging from some of these other threads an application form is NOT an agreement and fails the CCA request. Is this correct? Do i still fight? just a positive confirmation will give me the confidence to continue. Guy

Hi All, God this site has grown in the last few months!! I have posted a similar thread in the main debt forum however this one seems more applicable to my current situation. I have been having the running battle with Hillesden and na MBNA cc for the last year. They began court action to get a CO. I immediately applied for a CCA and got the action stayed as Hillesden were unable to produce the documents. They eventually came up with the application form (front copy only) and a selection of statements from MBNA. Their deed of assisgnment was ambiguous - could have related to anyone and no specific link to me. The statements have my name and address and the balances etc. The application form is just that - the only connection to the statements is the account number hand written on the top of the application form - even the address is notr the same as i applied for it in 1994 when living elsewhere. Hillesden wrote stating that they had met their obligation under the cca and would pass back to litigation. I responded that they had failed on a number of points including that this was an application, the t's and C's were missing, and they should try again. Yesterday i recieved from the courts an allocation questionaire and a note that the stay had been lifted and a transfer of case was granted. I can apply under rule 23.1 to have this set aside or varied or further stayed. Should i a) complete the allocation questionaire with all relevant details and at the same time apply to have the case set aside / thrown out? or b) do i just apply for a set aside. Any help apreciated or point me at a relevant thread please. I am continuing to read up on this section but i believe that as i only have a copy of the application i have a very good chance of getting this thrown out. thanks Guy

Hi All, I need some assistance with a claim against me. Hillesden applied to the courts some time ago for a charrging order on my property, i defended with a cca1974 request. Eventually Hillesden 'found' an original application form from 1994 and some statements from MBNA. I retaliated in the usual manner - it is an application form, they did not send copies of terms and conditions, the application form has no direct link to the statements - ie the account number on the statements is not on the app form however it is hand written on it. I have today recieved notice from the court that an application to lift the stay without hearing was granted and that i may apply under rule 23.10 to have it set aside or varied or stayed within 7 days. 1. I still believe that they are in breach and have yet to show proof. 2. What is rule 23.10 and how do i approach this. Any help appreciated at this time. regards Guy

Hi, I have recently successfully applied for the WaterSure relief. This is available for anyone with 3 or more children under the age of 19 and in reciept of child benefit / tax credits. in my area (South West Water) it caps the bill at £483 per year. (my bill prior to this was £1400) details are available if you search really hard on the water suppliers web sites. I found out about it by chance. Does anyone know if it is possible to back date a claim? The water people say that it is clearly advertised on all bills and no i cannot go back the four years because i didnt know about it. Anyone here had a go? Thanks Guy

Hi. Am currently claiming for £3200 from natwest. have recieved an order for stay for settlement with consent of all parties. Stay is until Aug 14th. to enable parties to attempt settlement. The stay is until 14th Aug but it says that on or b4 28th aug i have to notify that the claim has been settled or that i or they must request an extension. What do i do now? i did previously offer to settle for £2750 (had to pay a VAT bill) which was ignored. I can write to Cobblers with a list of ALL previously settled cases with the threat of wasted costs etc and see what they offer. the court is Penzance cornwall so there is no chance whatsoever that they will travel to a hearing. Any ideas / suggestions. tahnks guy

Hi all, long time since my last post but this is a new one on me. my partner has a retail business which is struggling. she owes £1521 to one of her uppliers who have now assigned the collection to a company called Atradius. we have offered a payment of £100 per month for the time being with a review in 3 months. The business is on sale so would clear the debt completely if the sale takes place. if business picks up then we can increase the payments. (it should be noted that my business is covereing a substantial portion of the payment) A real **** has demanded that a minimum of £300 per month be paid or he will 1. take her to court 2. apply for a forensic audit of the acounts 3. make her bankrupt 4. lodge a report against the directors blah blah blah. I got a little arsy with him and told him that we believe that given the circumstances £100 was a fair and reasonable offer and that we believed that the courts would agree. If they do agree then i will go for a wasted costs order and include costs for my time and jos. what do you think? £100 reasonable or not?

Hi All, With the current issues with ERC's and the various threads running i understand that when redeeming the mortgage you are effectively taking the option of settling early and therefore the charge is legal and tough luck.However, In my current position events are: I couldnt pay the mortgage so fell into arrears - Clear breach of contract. They charge admin fees for the breach - Punitive and unrecoverable. They are taking me to court for a posession order. My only option is to sell the property and redeem the mortgage. I have no choice in the matter as i cannot make up the arrears, They are effectively forcing me to redeem as there is no other way of doing it. I dont want to sell up and therefore dont want to redeem the mortgage or take the opt out clause where the ERC is payable. technically they are punishing me for going into arrears and further punishing me by the ERC. Does this sound to anyone like a possible escape in respect to the ERC?? Guy

Hi All, An update. Ge have began repossession proceedings with the court date 1st March. They are continuing to add admin fees and have seen the 'Counsellor' for the second time. luckily have sold the house - should exchange next week. Have also recieved a reply from GE re the insurance rebate - wait for it... £1025. This seems to be very low as i paid initially £4150 on a £44K loan over 25yrs so in effect they will have taken £3K in three yrs this must be disproportionate its not as if ive made any claims against it. I have noted with some concern that a number of ERP claims are being lost or thrown out so will wait to persue this element but the admin fees are definitely a fair target. Has anyone any info re GE insurance and a fair rebate figure and does anyone have any good news about ERP Luck to all Guy

Hi All, Just had a raft of charges applied to my business account for unpaid cheques. total of £400 in ten days. enough is enough have calculated back to june last year £1185. have sent a nice polite letter to my business manager in the first instance asking for them back stating that Natwest have paid several hundred thousand back in the last 12 months and that i took them to court last yearon my personal account (they settled in full before the hearing). expect to get a call from him tomorrow. fortunately 95% of my business is cash (pizzas and coffe bar) so can just deal in cash with my suppliers. If they want to call in the OD they will have to take me to court for the money and i will be able to make an arrangement via the courts so bring it ON!!! Guy

Hi, There have been several business customers who have successfully claimed, ive not been here since last summer but they were doing it then. sorry cant direct you to them. i believe there are a few slight differences in the legals and the cases but check the templates. at the end of the day they are STILL UNLAWFUL PENALTIES. Guy

Hi Folks, Its been a long long while since ive been on the site but been spending most of my time keeping my business a float!. I will be taking on Natwest to recover charges against my business account soon but have to deal with GE Money first. After a long hard struggle we have finally had to sell the house and will end up paying the usual raft of fees including ERP etc to GE. On the one hand i would prefer to simply deduct the amounts from the final cheque but i would be at risk of them rejecting the payment, holding up the sale and then the NR will reposess it. So my action will be settle, regroup and attack!!!. The brief history of the loan is: initailly borrow £44K Pay £4K insurance - have now ascertained that i will get a cheque refund for the rebate on this after full settlement. Pay broker fees of £1500 and legals of £500 so final loan just over £50k. at 12% Went into arrears 26 months ago (interestingly the first month in arrears i had a letter stating that they had charged me £2 admin, have charged me £40 per month ever since.) Their settlement figure is £56k including 26 months arrears, £3200 ERP some brokers fees (hang on didnt i pay them?) and the insurance. I have very politely asked for a detailed breakdown of this figure but reckon that i will be looking at aprox £4300 plus £3000 for the rebate on the insurance. I dont like to pay first then claim back but my solicitors think that its better to secure the sale, retreat and live to fight another day. Hope to begin early FEb if all goes well. will keep you posted. Guy

Morning All, Result today. MBNA have agreed to pay. They have credited two cards with the claimed amount. As these debt were sold off they are contacting the debt companies to have the figures deducted from my debt. Will wait to see if i hear from Westcott and DCA. Only needed to go as far as LBA. Guy

I Group - The main reason i dont have a phone in the house anymore!! I went into arrears with them last year to the tune of £900. They have a policy of collecting the arrears within a 12 month period. They were fairly reasonable when i spoke to thm agreeing to pay an extra £60 per month with 3 monthly reviews. So they are willing to listen providing you can come up with extra cash. I group were a last resort for me lending £50K when no one else would, saved my business but been paying hard ever since (1% per month) very expensive money and very difficult to turn into a reasonable rate loan. I now have a paying in book to catch up my arrears after a 'chat' with one of their customer relations advisors (man with beard, earings, clip board and broken nose). Had to turn off the phone because they would ring thirty times a day. So best thing to do is speak to them first - you could miss two months payments and then work something out with them - It will take them that long to issue anything though teh calls will start towards the middle of month two. Be ready with a reasonable excuse for missing the first payment and try to catch that one up before missing the next one if you can. Unfortunately the best thing to do with an I Group loan is to ditch it ASAP.

LBA sent today.

I only went for the standard 8% on my bank claims. For my crdit cards i calculated the rate and simply dropped that figure into the spraedsheet in place of the 8%. Using the assumption that teh spreadsheet calculates 8% per year on the penalty fees from initial charge to present day. My cards were 15.75 and 22% so i split down the charges and calculated the total interest on teh charges only. If this is over simplified then im sure someone will shout but it appeared to work out pretty damned close. (i did a quick check month on month) I am now claiming this all back from MBNA. If (when) i do a money claim i will not add a further 8% just leave the total as is in my LBA. So i am actually claiming my penalties and the interest on those penalties nothing extra no profiteering just MINE.

2 Points. 1. You cant open the account without accepting their terms and conditions. 2. They are supposed to operate lawfully and aren't by taking these charges. 3. Yuo are not able to change or strike out any of their terms and conditions (under a normal contract negotiation you would amend, add, delete any terms that you would not be prepared to accept) 4. OK more than 2 points.;-)