Hiya all, I have to , by 4 p.m. to-morrow, file a fully particularised defence to court. ( I shall hand deliver it) Now, DO I ; Go for No Agreement. as on the application form,there are no prescribed terms, citing the Waksman's Appeal court ruling. OR, No Assignment letter/note, deed. therefore no authority to collect? The pertinent points on the "redacted" deed of assignment. supplied by Cabrot. i.e., Name, address, a/c No. amount. etc, are ALL BLACKED OUT.so I don't think this is addmissable as it could be for anybody's account. Also the date on which they say they bought the debt is different from the date they say in their court evidence.? HELP. s.f.

Diddy According to companies House. CABOT FINANCIAL (EUROPE) LIMITED 03439445 05754978 CABOT FINANCIAL GROUP LIMITED 04071551 CABOT FINANCIAL HOLDINGS LIMITED 04934534 CABOT FINANCIAL HOLDINGS GROUP LIMITED 03513705 CABOT FINANCIAL (INTERNATIONAL) LIMITED 03757424 CABOT FINANCIAL (UK) LIMITED CABOT EUROPE LIMITED Dissolved FC010672 C CABOT EUROPE LIMITED Company Removed 05714535 CABOT FINANCIAL LIMITED 03936134 CABOT FINANCIAL DEBT RECOVERY SERVICES LIMITED 03514385 KINGS HILL (NO. 4) LIMITED 03514391 KINGS HILL (NO. 1) LIMITED 03958468 KINGS HILL (NO.3) LIMITED 03959268 KINGS HILL (NO. 2) LIMITED s.f.

Robcag In the N.O.A I have a page headed. Schedule List of Accounts It is completely BLANK. They are taking the P In particular, , as they have not complied with a court order before. They have "rushed" this one out.. Fussey This

DIDDY.... Just thought , on another theme. Cabrot tried to (and did ) get a charging order on another card.. (it'll keep for another day!), and on various letters they came from, Kings Hill a/c, Cabrot financial, Cabrot Europe, Cabrot Europe LTD. etc, etc, So I asked the D.J. who was I supposed to deal with? He made an order to specify who I was to "deal with". so as you have pointed out; they could not necessarilly be the correct company. BTW. they did not comply with the order, the letter came thro' about a week later than it should have. So, naturally being public spirited, I told the court. Never heard anymore though.... fussey

Thanks all. I have just skimmed over the replies. Fantastic......:grin: I have a lot to go at. and will try over the W/E. I really appreciate all the work EVERYONE has put in Fussey..

Beau, Alangee.... Rather late I know, but I have sent one off on Tuesday. Couldn't find their address for Head Office. so I Googled. And got Monument in London. special Del next day(should have had it yesterday, will check later) Then a thought came, should I have S.A.R'd. Barclaycard instead.? Alan They said to D.J. if we get N.O.A. it will be redacted. D.J. looked at me and said is that O.K., do you understand what redacted means? I said yes. BUT; I would assume that there was no need to block out the name, a/c No;, or any Identifying, feature. Surely this is near to contempt of court. I was thinking of asking for "proper disclosure", and letting the D.J. see it in camera. if this was possible. As far as I can see they still have'nt produced proof they are entitled to collect...... fussey

Cymruambyth.. You Are A STAR That was the very one.. I was going to look for posts by "Vint" ? and BRW so I wouldn't have been far away thanks.. Incidentally... just tthis morning received from Morgans. "Enclosed herewith redacted cop of Deed of Assignment, pursuant to court order dated 5th Feb" I thought, Blimey they're on the ball. then I read it 27 pages A4, the cover page say's, Dated 12 October 2005, (1) Kings Hill (No1) limited (2) Barclays Bank plc T/A Barclaycard Account sale agreement (Forward Flow-Monument; post one agency Expiring 30/6/06) Every page is then BLACKED OUT. Even where it says, Account Holder.... Blacked out. Account Number.....Blacked out "Eligible account"....Blacked out "Uncollectable Account"...Blacked out Seller..... Blacked out Buyer.... Blacked out Attention.... Blacked out Prior understanding... Blacked out Assignment... Blacked out Choice of Law and Juristricton.. B.O. Partial Validity. B.O. "Eligible Accounts" are accounts... B.O. Definition of Debt type... B.O. so I DON'T think they have supplied any info regarding the "Assignment" ALSO, The title on the front cover says "Kings Hill (No1) Limited" So to me , "Cabrot Financial" still haven't shown they are entitled to collect. Any thoughts. fussey

Bill, I know where you are coming from with your reply above. I have seen ( somewhere ), it may even have been the CCA about the prominence required. I shall look later when I have had some sleep. If I remember rightly, it is quite precise.... OR, Not a De Minimus.. fussey

ALANGEE. yes mate, this was part of their reply when I specifically asked for the D.N....... The Claimant submits that neither the respective Assignors nor the Claimant was required to send a default notice prior to the issue of proceedings in this matter. It is submitted that the Assignor or Claimant would only be required to send such a Notice under Section 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 if the Claimant wished to: a) Terminate the agreement b)Demand earlier repayment of any sum c)recoverpossession of any goods or land d)Treat anyright conferred on the debtor or hirer by the agreement as terminated e) Enforce any security So, they are trying to get rid of a "STUMBLING BLOCK", from half their claims I would think..

FUSSALOT: Also in the accompanying letter it says; "Payments to your account have not been made at the required level. No further usage of your credit card facility is permitted at this time. The ststus of your account will be reported to a credit reference agency. We refer you to the attached notice of default and to the section of your credit card Terms & Conditions which details your fees ans charges" http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-2578878.html Do you think they have already Stopped the accounr ? fussey.

Hiya All, Beau-Bill, re what you've said above. IT say's.. "It is hereby alleged that you have breached Terms and Conditions of use in that:- Your credit limit is £2000.00 Your balance is £2,156.28 Arrears on the account of £150.00 This can be remedied if you submit a payment sufficient to clear the arrears. The payment must reach us by 24th April 2006 IF THE ACTION REQUIRED BY THIS NOTICE IS TAKEN BEFORE THE DATE SHOWN, NO FURTHER ENFORCEMENT ACTION WILL BE TAKEN IN RESPECT OF THE BREACH". Now the date on the letter is 10th April. If we assume that it was posted second class, (unless otherwise proved). That means receipt on. 14th April. BUT; In '06, Good Friday, Sat, Sun, and Easter Mon were Bank Holidays. SO, in working DAYS, receipt would mean.. 4th day = Tues 18th. Then seven working days to put breach right would be Thur 27th April. Date to remedy on D.N. is 24thApril Is this correct (re;WORKING DAY'S). or am I Barking up The Wrong Tree?. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-2578870.html Fussey

cymruambyth What can I say? My brain had started to turn to Jelly last week.. Exhaustion or Nerves or BOTH. I don't know This has saved so much work, THANK YOU. (both)! I have been thro' 303., and over the W/E I shall read the rest of the thread. I think this will save my bacon, as my "Agreement", SHOULD be UNENFORCEABLE. and the D.J. seemed a fair man. (I hope I get him next time) I asked the court office if we will get the same judge, (on a different occasion), But they said they can never guarantee that you will. it all depends on how the cases are listed. HOWEVER, This still leaves the problem of how Cabrots seem to be trying to dismiss safeguards, viz going for "arrears", that still add up to the full amount. S.F.

Thanks Maroon.. Now we have it all in one thread.. Heres the story so far.. August 2009 Papers from Norhampton from Cabrot, re Monument C.C. Card taken out in Jan 2003, got into "difficulties" Feb 2006. Not paid since then (last two payments token £1 each) Cabrot Took over about Sept 2006, not happy with £1. Must pay more or else..... I lost interest. paid nothing since. Sept 2009 CPR'd Cabrot via their sols.. Morgans. No reply for a month. Chased it up. They sent Application form. no terms etc. included on form some statements. and terms and cons supposedly from the time. sent in A.Q's asking for the Deed of Assignment. agreement, and D.N. note. Judge made an Order to, "each send what we were relying on at the hearing, copies sent to each party and the court; NO more than 14 days before the hearing" ALSO the ORIGINALS to be brought to court. Cabrot sent only their "Trial Bundle" to me tuesday before the Friday hearing. NO agreement; (app form). copied T&c's said to be at the time; but they do not correspond with anything mentioned in the app form..... and statements, and their interest added on from when the O.C. closed the a/c. ('06) total bill for 3700. No doc's brought to court. No D.N. supplied as "we do not need to send one, nor did the O.C. need to send one as we are only claiming the ARREARS....." The O.C did send a D.N. in '06, claiming £150 in default (over limit) I couldn't "remedy" the breach at the time so they closed my a/c. Got to court Fri. couldn't believe I had NOT filed a Witness Statement. (Only had filed the original Embarrassed defence on A.Q's.) So D.J. said I had to Adjourn. When I asked him could I still have the documents from Cabrot, he said What documents., so I told him he had made a court ORDER for Cabrots to supply and bring the originals... When the monkey from Cabrots said he hadn't got them as he wasn't aware.... the D.J. said, OH, so you need to ADJOURN too.? So now before we go back in March, They have to supply the DEED of assignment, ( this is because the one supplied was a photocopy saying Cabrot had bought the debt etc.. BUT at the top handwritten was,.. "This is a reconstructed copy of what was sent") So I have put them to strict proof they own the debt. So there we are.. ALL Comments and observations, lifelines, Hints and tips etc. are Gratefully WELCOME.. sir Fussalot. .

Here we go then, I have just had a THOUGHT...... I put a CCA request in to Cabot Cabot sent : the application form, (Not properley executed ) Statements. Promise of the DEED of Assignment. (still not sent it) But they didn't send:, The D.N. notice (as they said they didn't need it) The A/C closed/Termination notice. (don't need it). These have been issued by the O.C Soooooo, As the above two haven't been sent, are they in BREACH of fulfilling the CCA request. AND THEREFORE..... Cannot pursue the claim until CCA request is satisfied.? Legals Please.??? fussey.

Nitty Gritty,, He pointed out to the DJ that he didn't know what my argument was, as there was no Witness Statement. I said yes there was but, looking in the bundle I suddenly realised that I had only sent in the A.Q's and NOT the W.S. (I had put in an Embarrassed defence in the A.Q's.asked that after they had made their case that I would then have 14 days to file my W.S.)so I had to apologise, and the D.J. said he was "sorry but I am going to have to adjourn"; I said well can I have the Documents that Cabrot's rep had bought to court.. What documents he said.? I said you made a court order telling them to bring the original doc's to the hearing.... He looked at the rep and said, well? He got all flustered and said he was very sorry but he did not have them. Ah, said the D.J. so you need to adjourn too. The D.J. said right what doc's do you want. So I said. The DEED of Assignment.(which Morgans (Cabrots sols), said in a letter that "they would send me the DEED of A, but it would have to come out of storage and that may take a week.") (that was in Sept last year). The D.J said why do you want the deed, I said they promised to send it but haven't, The copy they have sent me has at the top a handwritten. "this is a reconstructed copy of what was sent.", Therefore, I don't believe that one exists., and that Cabrots do not have the authority to the right of this debt. The D.J said your quite right it is an important doc. And asked the sheepish rep if he could bring it next time. The rep said that he could bring the deed but; it would have certain sensitive commercial information on it so it would have to be redracted. The D.J. agreed. (probabaly the price of "£20. as the Agreement is missing ":D ). Then. I asked for the D.N. note to be included.... At this the rep said well sir the D.N. is not required to have been sent by us or the original Creditor as we are only seeking the ARREARS which just happen to add up to the full amount including their interest @ 12% p.a. Now I have the original D.N. (afraid issued correctly.) and the Termination of the account letter. The D.N originally was for arrears of £150 breach, which was to be paid within the 7 days. (April 06) So what they seem to be doing now is be able to claim without a need for a D.N. or other stat notice? HELP fussalot

Hi everyone. (The Formalities) What a day!. I ended up only getting there with 5 mins to spare. Ambushed straight away by a flustered "paralegal", "Oh Mr. Fussalot, I think we've just got time for a chat",, Are you for Cabrot? yes that's right. Oh.. are you dropping the case....? Er, NO, he said with a look of puzzlement; Well what do you want to "chat" about,. Well,I just wanted to know what your point of contention was. :-x:-x Talk about winding me up before I had even started.... I said No, you just want to pick my brains and then have ALL the answers infront of the Judge,.... Oh NO Mr. Fussalot , it doesn't work like that. ( HA...) I said "please go away as you are interfering with a witness... (I told you I was wound up).. He immediatley scuttled off... He must have thought he'd got it in the bag.. Then we were called in....... now the SERIOUS BIT.. :sad:

Hiya Everyone, Just got back..........ADJOURNED... til March. Not bad really considering I didn't put a Witness Statement in :shock: Asked on the A.Q.'s for 14 days after Cabot/Morgans compliance W.S. to then put my DEFENCE. But DJ told me he didn't put that on the Order. I could only apologise. HOWEVER when I asked if we could proceed when Cabot showed me the "Documents they were told to bring to court;". (in the order). There was another problem; Guess What, Cabot Hadn't got the Doc's. So he said that there would have to be an adjournment as we were both at fault. I asked if he could just have a look at the agreement and agree that the Prescribed Terms were not in the APPLICATION FORM. The DJ said "ITS NOT THAT SIMPLE"; He said I take it you are DEFENDING on a Technical Defence. Thinking I might get one up.:-| I said yes its an APPLICATION form and not an agreement with the Prescribed Terms. He looked at Cabots "Litigator" and said Have you heard of the Manchester Case. He looked "SHEEPISH" and said, yes we are aware of it. Asking for what documents I wanted for next hearing I said the D.N. Upon which Cabrots man said, "its NOT applicable sir, as we are only claiming the interest......" I need to go to work now... sorry. Obviously we need to sort some tactics out on this one if they reckon they dont need , Termination letters or D.N.'s.? I fear it may be as in, "Fiddlesticks I didn't know they could do that" http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-2037632.html A Thread by BILL SHIDDING. needs a read...... will post later. thanx everyone Fussey

Patrickq1.. oooh thank you sooo much :D Re the 1st Witness Statement, He gives his name... tells us he has "the conduct of the account etc" "On the 11th , Blah, Blah, entered into an agreement, Blah, Blah. account number, Blah Blah....... A copy of the credit agreement with the prevailing terms and conditions is exhibited herewith. Only trouble is.. default charges AND interest rates are different, on my statements.. so they are NOT the true T&C's. ALSO, they are different again from the T&C's Cabrot sent me 12 months ago, purporting to be genuine. Then I have a second Witness Statement from The "SENIOR" litigation "CHIEF". (The one who's costs are £458 to appear to-morrow) and the one who will be in court; stating that he has read what the other monkey has put, AND that it is TRUE. SO, Patrick, I pressume that he is the one that will say he has signed the N.O.A. thanks for cheering me up..... fussey

Yep Diddy. BUT: What if they have blacked out something to HELP MY CAUSE? fussey

Bill, # Yes Ive had a £1's worht "Lucky Dip", on the D.J. Lottery. The N.O.A. is a copy. Handwritten at top with " this is a copy representation of what would have been sent". The agreement is a short app form No D.N. (morgans say Not Required). However, Court Order I asked for disclosure,,, states "Original doc's must be bought to court" so should be interesting. Incidently, After I CPR'd morgans. They said, "DEED of assignment" will take up to a week to be sent as it has to come from storage. That was Oct 2009. No Sign yet (nor in there bundle) s.f.

Hiya Diddy. No. Closed a/c after D.N. for arrears of £154.00p "overlimit"

Possibly,, But, EVERYTHING on this log is only to do with my a/c.! s.f.

Hiya. this is sir fussalot. I'm in court to-morrow with the same, my thread. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/245555-morgans-say-no-d.html#post2748004 All Cabrot have sent is the short application form, no T&C's Their Assignment note is "reconstructed from what was sent" etc. No D.N. notice, they claim they don't need one.as they are only collecting "arrears". However, it comes to the same amount as the " total debt". s.f.

Thaks to all, This has come from their "Trial Bundle", that they sent me on Tuesday. As you will see the top half is Blacked OUT.. I will ask (in court), WHY. Could it be any reference to No credit agreement, only the app form. s.f.

Thanks M&M. If you have read Bill Shildding's story above; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/189110-fiddlesticks-i-didnt-know.html I think it will give some Idea as to what they are up to.... S.B.