If an original existed and contained only my signature I would rip it up there and then!!

Ok - thanks. So from what you are saying the information provided in a SAR or S78(1) request need only be a copy of the CCA and therefore might not be a certified (notified) copy of the original (talking generically here not in reference to anything related to me)? However, if a credit card company wishes to make a claim against you in the court and makes reference to either a contract or Credit Card Agreement, then they are obliged to produce the ORIGINAL document in the court otherwise there is no case to answer. If the original (or a certified copy) is produced and it does not contain a signature by the creditor, regardless of whether the prescribed terms are present, then under section 61 of the CCA1974, there is no properly executed agreement. What is to stop the credit card company signing it now (5, 10, 15 years later) and back-dating it? Besides the law and morals (which I doubt would be a huge barrier)! When should it be signed? What is the format accepted as a signature? Company stamp or wet ink? Cheers TWTT

CitizenB - Is there a link to your particular case(s) on here? After issuing your claim did the Judge put a stay on the other claim (i.e. where they were claiming money from you) and has that remained stayed to this day?I wonder why MBNA are refusing to provide the information requested in my SAR? Surely if they believe they have a strong case against me there would be no harm in providing me with all of the information I am legally obliged to receive?What do you think they might be hiding? PPI, unfair charges, no signed CCA, no contract, no statements....?

Nothing like it

DETAILED PARTICULARS OF CLAIM 1. The Defendant is a Data Controller within the meaning of the Data Protection Act 1998 ("the Act") and is responsible for the processing of data of which the Claimant is a Subject. 2. The Claimant has the following account number ("the Account") with the Defendant – XXXXXXXXXXX 3. On or about XX December 2010 the Claimant sent a Subject Access Request ("the SAR") pursuant to Section 7 of the Act to the Defendant. 4. The Defendant has failed to comply with the SAR. 5. By virtue of the Defendant's failure to comply with the SAR the Claimant has suffered damage. 6. The damage caused is: Extra costs incurred in addition to court costs due to the Defendants failure to comply - this includes the cost of additional correspondence and time spent researching, preparing and posting documents, I estimate the costs to be £ 2XX.00 (see attached Schedule 1) 7. The Defendant has commenced legal proceedings in relation to an alleged overdue balance on this account under claim number XXXXXXX ("the Claim") and the Claimant relies upon the information requested in the SAR to prepare a Defence or Counterclaim or both to the Claim. 8. The Claimant seeks an order from the Court that the Defendant do comply with the SAR. 9. Under the terms of Section 15(2) of the Act, where the Defendant contests that information requested under the SAR is not included within the scope of Section 7 of the Act, the Claimant requests that the Court inspects that information, and where it finds that the Defendant's opinion is unfounded, that it orders such information be included within the information supplied to the Claimant under the SAR. 10. Damages and costs within the discretion of the Court.

Have I been missing something very obvious here? The document MBNA allege is a copy of the alleged Credit Agreement does not contain a signature by the creditor. They claim the agreement is from 1999 (i.e. well before the April 2007 date) therefore if the alleged Credit Agreement was not signed by both the creditor AND the debtor isn't it NOT a properly executed agreement as per Section 61(1) of the CCA1974?? I am being too simple here.

Thanks CitizenB I have all the proof I need. There is absolutely no doubt they received it, cashed cheque and responded to another account referenced in the SAR. They are just stalling and trying to fool the court (imo).

Cheers very much appreciated. I have over a week to submit aq.

We do now Cover Letter – START - It’s our Client’s intention to issue an Application for Summary Judgement/Strike Out in respect of the claim. As set out in the Defence, our Client has commenced proceedings under Claim Number XXXXXXX for the recovery of the amount owed by the Claimant under the credit agreement. Our Client also intends to issue a Summary Judgement Application in that case as well. When submitting the respective Applications we will ask the Court to list them both together at the same time. – END – Defence – START- 1) The Defendant joins issue with the Claimant on the claim. 2) It is denied that the claim constitutes a valid cause of action against the Defendant and this Defence is pleaded without prejudice to the Defendant’s right to strike out the claim. 3) On[ DD MM YYYY - removed by me] the Claimant signed a credit agreement (“the Credit Agreement”) which is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (“the Act”). Pursuant to the Credit Agreement the Defendant issued the Claimant with a credit card. The Claimant has failed to comply with the terms of the Credit Agreement and accordingly the Defendant has commenced proceedings in the XXXX County Court under Claim Number XXXXXXX seeking recoveries of the monies due. 4) In respect of this claim the Defendant pleads as follows a) The Defendant was a Data Controller within the meaning of that term in the Data Protection Act (“the DPA”). b) A copy of the subject access request referred to in the claim form is not enclosed. The Claimant is requested to prove that a valid request within the meaning of Section 7 of the DPA was made (and the appropriate fee was paid) and that the Defendant failed to provide an adequate response. c) It is denied (if the same be alleged) that the Claimant is entitled to any compensation for any alleged contravention of any requirement of the DPA pursuant to Section 13(2) in circumstances were [sic] they do not allege that they have suffered any damage as a result of such a contravention. The alleged contravention does not relate to the processing of personal data for special purposes. d) It is denied that any alleged breach (which is denied) of the DPA by the Defendant does not afford the Claimant any reason not to pay the monies due under the Credit Agreement – the Defendant will rely on the [sic] Section 7(9) of the Act [sic]. 5) In the circumstances it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relied claimed or at all. - END -

ThanksI will await comments from Andy and DonkeyB if he/she looks in

So I have started to complete the allocation questionnaire in relation to this claim (started by me) but wanted opinions on the following please: 1) Can anyone explain exactly what this means in their Defence: "The defendant joins issue with the Claimant on the claim" 2) What do you propose I do in relation to the Defendant attempting to bring in these allegations from a separate claim? "It is denied that any alleged breach (which is denied) of the DPA by the Defendant does not afford the Claimant any reason not to pay the monies due under the Credit Agreement – the Defendant will rely on the Section 7(9) of the Act" 3) They have mentioned that I failed to provide the SAR request with the claim (which was done via NCCBC) but they never requested it from me prior to submitting their Defence. Should I append it to the Allocation Questionnaire along with the proof they received it? 4) They have clearly stated that they intend to submit applications for Summary Judgement/Strike Out for both this claim and their claim in my other thread (where I am the Defendant for alleged monies owed on this same account). Should I say anything about this in the allocation questionnaire? 5) What sort of draft directions can I add? Could I consider saying that if they do not respond to the information made in the SAR then I should be awarded the costs/damages claimed and for the other case to be struck out? Is it worth a shot? 6) They are claiming there is no cause of action in this!! How on earth can they claim that when the information is vital to enable me to defend the other claim? Should I mention this in allocation questionnaire too?I know there are a lot of questions here but I would really appreciate some help here. As written previously by others, these solicitors are renowned for this approach followed by attachment of earnings/charge order on property and I am determined to not allow this to happen in my case so any help much appreciated.Thanks in advance TWTT

I realised that it was £10 well after the event. I have proof of posting and payment. They know it too as I previously sent a copy of it to them

I thought it was £10 per account when I made the SAR but I found out subsequently that it was £10 per subject regardless of number of accounts. I'm not sure what they did with my other £10 as they cashed the £20.

Hi Jacket potato - I have already requested for a stay in the other claim and disclosure under 31.14. This case (where I have brought an action against MBNA) is to force disclosure of the SAR but they appear to be denying receipt of the SAR, which referred to two separate accounts, one of which they provided the information for and cashed a cheque for £20.00!! It seems that there is either a completely lack-lustre filing system or a serious case of porky-pies!!

Here is the link to the other thread I mentioned http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?328237-Help-please-court-case-against-mbna-**-first-ever-**

I have another thread that relates to this that I will link in. I have started a claim against MBNA due to their failure to meet with SAR request. They have started a claim for alleged debt separately (see other thread) but I require the info from SAR to determine any obligations, if any, and because it's my legal right! They are denying the SAR was made which is embarrassing for them as I can easily prove it. They also say that I didn't send a copy of SAR request with PoC but they never asked for it prior to submitting their defence plus I did claim via NCCBC. They are going to apply for Summary Judgement/Strike Out. I've received AQ so my question is, can I use this to attach the evidence of SAR request and receipt by them and should I be mentioning that the claim should not have Summary Judgement/ Strike Out? Cheers TWTT

Well I have received their defence to my separate claim, which I will discuss on a separate thread. However, they have made it clear in their cover letter that they want to apply for Summary Judgement/Strike Out in respect of both their claim and my claim and for the applications to be listed together at the same time! I just hope the court do not fall for their games.

Nice one - no doubt be back here soon enough ;)Take care - TWTT

Will do! That was something I forgot to ask. At this stage I have not made a counterclaim (in the case where I have an aq) therefore is it correct that there is no fee associated for me?Cheers

Cool - thanks Andy. Looking forward to reading their defence to my claim about failure to comply with SAR

I assume that would be in the Section I (other information). Should I still include directions asking for disclosure of docs within 14 days EVEN THOUGH some of the data being requested may be subject to the other claim? Nothing ever straight forward eh?? Cheers TWTT

Andy and CitizenB - there is one thing I forgot to mention...Due to their failure to comply with a previous SAR request (or to provide all statements etc during my CPR 18 and 31.14) I started a completely separate claim (with me as claimant) in relation to their failure to meet with DPA98 requirements for provision of SAR data. This is ongoing and it appears they are defending (apparently defence submitted yesterday to court) but I haven't seen their defence yet.So my question - is it more sensible to ask for a stay in proceedings in the case where I am defendant (i.e. this thread) in view of the other ongoing case OR can I still ask for disclosure of the statements etc in this case via Draft Order for Directions??Many thanks TWTT

Thanks Andy - very much appreciated.

n150

Hi all - I've filled in a lot of my aq but have a couple of questions. SECTION D I have added me as a witness but wasn't sure what to say in the "Witness to which facts" section? SECTION E Length of trial? SECTION F Proposed directions? Shall I include any or just request stay under Section I? As ever appreciate any help TWTT