Hello Cagers, It is sometime since I have had to request the collective wisdom of this great site, but I find myself in a peculiar position and would be grateful for your advice. Some 9 years ago I was taken to the Small Claims Court by HSBC who were claiming repayment of £4,000 overdraft which they claimed was owed to them. I decided to defend this case myself as £3000 of this amount was made up of excessive charges, £1000 only was in my opinion genuinely owed by myself. When we got into court the Judge stated that she had read our depositions and asked if the case might be closed by an agreed settlement beween both parties before proceeding. To my surprise HSBC 's solicitor said that they were agreeable. The Judge then asked me if I was also in agreement to which I replied I was. The Judge then asked me, what would I consider to be a fair settlement, I responded by saying that I would pay the balalance owed at that time on the £1000 and as far as the charges of £3000 these were unfair and should be written off by HSBC. The Judge upheld my request with the agreement of the HSBC's solicitor. The matter was then closed on the discharge of the remaining balance of the £1000 elelement. Around a week ago I received two letters a week apart with cheques to the value of £50 in each. The accompanying letters stated that this was in respect of poor treatment by the bank. As you can well understand I was quite taken aback. Is this some form of sophisticated scam?

Hi BankFodder and renegadeimp Thank you for your prompt replies. I am pleased to inform you that by escalating the request Amazon have agreed to a full refund. One of my problems was finding someone in the customer care team prepared to take my request up the line. I ended up with two people dealing with the problem, one really trying to help, the other being a company policy protector. With regard to the length of time to raise the issue, delivery was scheduled for 23rd August and this item was not shown until I received my credit card statement in early October. A message was sent to Amazon on the 25th August cancelling the order, Amazon claimed they never received this message.The initial part of October was taken up with searching for the item, questioning neighbours and making contact with Amazon customer services. It was only when I received an email on 31st October quoting "We are only able to issue a replacement or refund for an order within 30 days of the delivery date" that I consulted this excellent site and took matters further with Amazon. I have already received a confirming email from Amazon and am very satisfied with the result. The matter is now closed. Best regards Carningli

High Fellow Caggers, Please could you give me some advice. In August 18, I placed an order for a new chainsaw with Amazon and requiring it fairly immediately, I accepted their kind offer of a prime trial, believing that I would be entitled to next day delivery. In the event I received an email from Amazon stating that the chainsaw would be delivered on the day after the expected day of delivery. My partner and myself waited at our home all that day, no delivery was made. In view of non delivery and anxious to make the best of August Bank Holiday weather, I rang the importers of the chainsaw direct on the following day. I was at the time unaware that the importers were only some 50 minutes drive away. Thinking that Hermes might deliver that day, I requested the importers if they would be kind enough to keep a unit for me until they closed at 1.30pm, explaining that I might get a delivery and not require their kind assistance. By 11.00 am, there was no sign of any delivery so I went to the importers and picked up a new chainsaw of the model I wanted. That afternoon I sent an email direct to Amazon by their Help page messaging system. In it I asked them to cancel my order and refund my credit card account if they had debited it. Approximately a week ago, I looked at my credit card statement and was surprised to see entries for a chainsaw from both Amazon and the importer. I immediatey sent a message to Amazon by their messaging system, explaining that no chainsaw had been delivered by Hermes and no card left by them. Their response to say the least was unhelpful, citing that they could do nothing as 20 days had already elapsed and denied they had ever received a notice of cancellation at the time of their alleged delivery. Where should I go from here Amazon are the seller of the goods, Hermes their delivery agent? Amazon say they did not receive my message, Hermes claim they made a delivery to a secure place on the second day after ordering (no proof of delivery), I say no chain saw was delivered. I am aware of Sec 75 posibilities. With thanks Carningli

I think we have probably exhausted this thread. Still not received a bill since last year at this property we are now in August the bill for water at the comparison property this year water only was £42 and I live in it. Would moderator please close this thread. Carningli

Hi fkofilee, No there was no specific reference to CRAs within the order but the account was formally in dispute with HSBC and a LBA had been sent to HSBC. They also held collateral to cover this overdraft and my wife had HSBC Personal Banking. There was no danger of HSBC losing money in this situation. They were just determined to be as awkward as possible. Carningli

Can someone please enlighten me? At the time of the issue of the Supreme Court judgement on Bank Charges I had a claim for excessive and unfair Bank Charges lodged with HSBC. Almost as soon as the judgement was made public HSBC wrote to me stating the charges were part of their core business and that they were rejecting my claim. At the time there had been no challenge to the judgement and not knowing what to do , I froze the accounts and moved to another bank. HSBC duly instructed DG (Solrs) in house collection agents to obtain a Court Judgement. I felt that I had little to lose by going to Court and filed a defence and before the case was heard exchanged bundles. Somewhat to my surprise I received a call from DG suggesting a settlement out of Court. I like to think that when they saw my defence they had second thoughts wanted to avoid any bad publicity. The matter was discussed between both parties and a compromise in which the majority of Bank Charges were rescinded and another loan account to be settled in full was reached, bound by a Tomlin Order. I was happy with the contract within the order. The order ran for a period of tweleve months and was discharged without any failure. (With the exception I overpaid the agreement due to an error by my current Bank by £100 which has not been repaid, but I will leave that to another thread). I now wish to open another basic Bank Account, but have been refused by First Direct although I still have an account with HSBC which has never gone into the red. First Direct did not give me any reason for refusal but pointed me in the direction of the three CRAs. On receiving my credit reports, I was astounded to see that a default had been registered against me for the bank charge figure agreed to be rescinded in the Tomlin Order. This default being carried forward for five years on my file. I thought that a Tomlin Order in full and final settlement meant just that and that if I failed to discharge my obligations the matter could be fast tracked back to the Court for judgement , but not that HSBC could refer a matter of confidence to the CRAs and lodged as a default. I am not sure how I should deal with this, I know that I can lodge a letter of correction with the CRAs. But I also feel that HSBC were not entitled to issue a default when the account was in dispute and especially after a Tomlin Orde r had been approved and running it's course. With thanks Carningli.

Thank you Silver Fox, I am following your advice. This organisation is showing all the signs of being in financial trouble and attempting to improve its cash flow at the expense of its customers. Caveat emptor. Carningli

Six months ago I transferred my electricity account to a relatively new supplier in the UK Extra Energy. I understand this company has German parents. I have been trying to get a bill from them for the past two months to no avail. When contacted by telephone nothing is resolved not even a change of e-mail address. They are charging me by way of Direct Debit over double that charged by my previous supplier Npower, who are not renowned for their competiveness. I told them by e-mail that if I did not have a bill within 3 working days I would cancal my Direct Debit. I have recieved no acknowledgement of my e-mail after 5 working days, nor any answer to other queries. I have now cancelled my DD. I understand by law they should submitt a bill at six monthly intervals. Any advice as to what I should do next? With thanks Carningli

Water Company's would not appear to have a duty of care.To the extent that even Trading Standards will not become involved in water disputes because they have no competition. The only thing they worry about is bad publicity which threatens their image and most of their generous actions are prompted from the requirement to keep their noses clean. All they are interested in is billing you for what they claim goes through your meter accurate or otherwise. If you need support in making a claim against a Water Company for some reason, reasonably out of your control make contact with the Water Consumer Council. They are aware of most of the Water Company's attitudes towards customers problems.

I have for the past 7 years or thereabouts been doing exactly as suggested keeping a record of weekly usage shown and periods when absent from the property. When absent no consumption is registered on the meter. I have asked for the Water Company's advice and their attitude is very much to claim that the meter is reading accurately and that I have a leak on my side of the meter! The best is a toilet cistern, which is not flowing out of the overflow system but is due to it's symphonic action losing an amount of water during filling of the cistern after flushing. When I asked them for an estimate of water lost they say they are unable to do that. They then rambled on about replacing the inlet valve to the cistern, but this cuts off completely when the cistern is full. There was a new dual flush unit and inlet valve fitted 4 years ago. However they do agree that the meter is 10 years old and meters are generally replaced around this age and it is possible they could fit a new meter. I have told them that if they take the meter out, I would like them to retain it for independent testing. I am contacting Trading Standards about this situation, not least because of the Water Company's claim, outlined in my first posting. Best regards to all. Carningli Regards to all Carningli.

I am sorry that nobody has responded to your query. I have only just read it. My wife was a premier account holder and we ended up very disappointed with HSBC's services and losing a lot of investment money. My advice would be to steer clear of Premier Banking, their advice to her was extremely poor and relatively expensive and premier managers were constantly changing. In essence I formed the opinion that HSBC was only interested in HSBC. Carningli

Hi all, Thanks for your interest and suggestions. As I previously intimated, I have always felt it would be impracticable to accurately by means of draw off to measure a large quantity of water eg: 100 ltrs or so. The meter is about 11 years old and does not have a rotating spiral indicator, to show when water is flowing through it. I would be particularly interested to hear how Suzie Surf Girl resolved her similar problem. If I can prove, which I am unable to do at the present time, that the meter is over recording, I would expect it to be replaced free of charge. Carningli

Many thanks to all who have kindly responded. A tap test would require measuring very accurately water drawn off in the house, I would imagine that the meter records cubic metres passing through the meter. Surely to do this one would require a calibrated receptacle capable of holding such a large amount of water, is this practicable? Water leaking at the meter would under record not over. Carningli

Yes both properties are within the same water board area and basically the comparison is like with like, I am fortunate in knowing what the consumption figures should be and they are agreed by the Welsh Water Council, frankly they just do not add up. Volume is what I am trying to establish, but of course cost is involved too.

Hi Caro, Many thanks for your response. To answer your question the term "over metering" is used to indicate that the meter is registering more consumption than is actually used. To cut a long story short, I own the property concerned and lived in it for some 10 years with my wife. Over that period I always considered the water bills to be high. Some three years ago we moved to our second home permanently and the property since has been occupied solely by a member of the family in her seventies. my wife and I consume the same amount of water as previously but our bills are 25% lower than those of a single person residing in the property. I have had plumbers in to see if there are any internal leaks, the meter does not record when the property is left empty for any period. Everything appears to focus on the meter as the only untested piece of the puzzle. Welsh Water will test the meter for £70, but if I have it tested I want an independent body, I do not trust Welsh Water to be unbiased. I am in contact with the Welsh Water Council, but they are slow to move. I would like to know if anyone else has experienced this kind of problem Carningli.

Hi all Caggers, There may be someone who has had experience in this field reading this thread. My enforced water supplier Welsh Water, make the claim that they have " never had one of their Waters Meters found to be over metering". Not having knowledge of the construction or functioning of such meters, this may be a true statement. I find this hard to believe, but would be grateful to hear of others experiences!. Carningli

I would like to draw this post to a conclusion. The matter has been resolved by the Water Company crediting me with the full amount charged for which I am very grateful. Carnigli

It looks to me that the Banks have won again. Our whole system of justice needs a complete overhaul. Carningli

Thank you Surfer01, I have come to the same conclusion as yourself, the Warer company either do not hold an agreement or it is in someone elses name. I must emphasise that neither of the persons having use of the ground were tenants nor did they pay any rent. This was done on the advice of my solicitor (sadly now deceased as well) as he feared an agricultural tenancy could possibly be claimed, if I was not careful. I have a good suspicion, but no proof as to who was resposible! Carningli

Thank you Coniff and DanscoCAB for your replies. The estate of the last person to have use of the land recieved the bill from the Water company bill, but one of the executors of his estate (his daughter) is trying to get the Water company to pass the bill on to me, as I own the ground and have done for fifty years. I have asked the Water Company for sight of the Meter Agreement to determine Name, Address and signature of person who had meter installed. Water Company afe refusing under excuse of Data Protecction Act. Yet they accepted her giving ny name and address. Carningli

I have a strange problem. I own a wood and two fields. Over the past twwenty five years or so, I have permitted two local farmers in succession to use the fields, in return for maintaining hedges and fences. Unbeknown to myself either one or both or them between themselves had a water supply and meter connected to one of the fields which already had a sheep dip tank. The meter I am informed is hidden in a hedge. The first occupant moved on some ten years or more ago, the second died some nine months ago. I have never used any piped water on my property always, assuming there was none there and brought it in by bowser. Having no need for a permanent supply and would never have given permission for one, especially with a meter. Any advice wouild be welcome. Carningli. I have now recieved a bill from the water company for over £1,500.

Hi Gordies, To add fuel to the fire I have just experienced a similar situation. In fact I have not had a fault claim in the last 10 years or more. I recently changed from Fortis to Esure, my wife who is a named driver had a Car Parking incident last year Esure are saying that I cannot have a protected no claims bonus until I have been with them for one year. Could you please let us have details of legal ownership? of no claims bonus and reference to this in terms of Insurance legal practise. With thanks. Carningli

Hi Kriso, This an interesting case as DG did not follow correct procedure and are therefore on the back foot. However before you throw the towel in (capitulate) have a good look at your case Did HSBC treat you unfairly, use you as a cash cow, give bad advice or act unprofessionally in any other way. if you consider they did and you feel a judge may support your point of view, then it may be worthwhile entering a defense or even a counter claim. You may even find as I did that DG may want to settle out of court, HSBC has had a bad run recently in the courts. I had my not inconsiderable charges written off, since the Supreme Court Judgement by agreement out of court and got the distinct impression that whilst DG are happy to obtain a judgement by default, they are not too keen to risk a fight and bad publicity, if you have the slightest worthwhile defense. Carningli

Well well well, I don't think so. I was served with a claim through the Northampton Bulk Court by this firm of ? Solicitors who claimed to be acting for their client HSBC. I filed a defence and the charges element of the claim was withdrawn, I agreed out of Court to settle a small loan agreement associated with my account. I challenged a number of issues such as poor advice on investment and private banking with HSBC as an OAP, which was ignored. It would appear that this firm of Solicitors did not deal correctly with my defence misrepresented themseleves in Court and were not able to process impartially my claim as they did not inform me as to who they were and their line of business. I would of course be most interested to be able to follow the complaint against what may have been litigation carried out by a bogus firm of Solicitors. Carningli

Hi Lochlisa, Having done all the essential things and indicated that you are filing a defense. Are you making a Counter Claim? If so you need to get to work on this straight away as time will fly. You need to list every incident was detrimental to your interests as a party to the contract. On what grounds are HSBC taking you to Court, they may find it difficult to enforce judgement if they are unable to produce the original document. Challenge their assumptions on every derail. Be prepared to go to mediation if necessary. I expect the claim has been issued by DG Solrs be prepared to talk to them, berore getting to Court. In the main they hope they won't be challenged or the case will be undefended, in which case they will apply for judgement immediately so watch your timing you don't want to have to apply for a judgement to be set aside. Buy "Small Claims Procedure in the County Court", if your claim falls into this category, if not watch costs in defending your action. I negotiated with DG after having to apply for a judgement to be set aside after requesting permission to submit a Counter Claim (be prepared to go to the wire) I came out of the process very favourably.