Just bumping - is anyone able to advise on managers breaking confidentiality (detailed in the above post). Speaking to a friend at work, she reckoned the managers 'gossiping' about this case with other staff could be seen as being malicious. Anyone else agree?

Hi Sidewinder, Where did you find that listed? I've just searched back through the booking process and couldn't find it, and even using Google to search for any page with the word 'Winterisation' on Avis.co.uk (or .com) produced no results! :-/ I must not have read the T&Cs that thoroughly if you've found it, but I still feel a mandatory surcharge such as this should not be 'tucked away' until the car is returned. Maybe I'll just write saying I'm dismayed at them for not making it clearer, and will think twice about using them again, etc.... Hopefully a good customer relations person will send me vouchers or something.

I hired a car in Austria a month or so ago through Avis and thought I'd paid for it all up front. When I returned it they said I had to pay a 'Winterisation Fee' (£33) which the woman said was to cover changing/use of snow tyres (a legal requirement there). Obviously this change only happens twice a year to the car as winter comes and goes, yet I got the impression they charge it for every hire of the vehicle. I wasn't told about it before taking the car, and don't remember anything about it when booking - is this a normal thing to pay in colder/snowy countries? I feel like I've been stung but didn't know better at the time. On the Rental End Contract (received when handing the car back) it lists this charge under 'Optional Services' - I certainly wasn't given the option and was verbally told it was mandatory. Anyone got advice on whether to pursue it and what to say if so???

Thanks Dundeelaw. The small claims is a good idea, but would a court take it seriously at less than £15? A couple of new things have happened since this - could do with more advice. Firstly, my friend paid the money, accepted the disciplinary and somehow gave up the right to appeal in order for the mark on his record to only last 6 months. The other option was to have the option to appeal but the mark would stay for 12 months. He wants a new job ASAP so 6 months seemed better. Secondly, last week he got a text from an old co-worker who works on a totally different site saying they'd 'heard about the case [mentioning most of the specifics] from the management, and were really sorry, hope you get yourself sorted soon', etc.... Obviously my mate is fuming as one of his managers has totally breached confidentiality (the manager he suspected apparently went bright red when confronted about it!). Can/should anything be done formally about this? He still has the text in his phone. Is there any way he can get the management to lift the disciplinary from his file now that they've 'broken the rules' on the matter themselves? Also, the 6 months - should that be from the date of the alleged event, the date the investigation happened or the date of the disciplinary?

If they sent out letters for every fine wrongly imposed, as I said there would be a minority who still didn't get the message and therefore wouldn't get a refund. This leftover money would be more than enough to cover the cost of such correspondence. Tax payers would not be out of pocket. It just seems a bit lazy to me to admit it was wrong but only put 1 small piece in the local paper/mention it on 1 website. When manufacturers have product safety alerts they do much more to instigate product returns and refunds, and they are actually losing out that kind of situation. The council would not be.

My friend lives in a block of flats run by what used to be the council but is now a housing association. I visit him most days and park in the residents car park. He does not have a car himself, and in two years I've only once found space to be a problem. However, They're just about to introduce a private parking company to look after the car park and permits have got to be applied for - free for a year, then you will have to pay. But, from their letters only vehicles registered/insured to that address will qualify. No provision seems to have been made for guests. Can they do this? Also, check out the wording of the official letter he got. ...Newline Securities will monitor the scheme on a 24 hour, 7 days a week basis. Please be advised that any vehicle that does not display a valid permit or display a copied/altered permit will be subject to immediate immobilisation and the permit will be confiscated by the contractor. Any vehicle clamped will be given an hour to be released before it is removed. Can a private company really take your car?

Yeah, I understand that, but a letter advising about this new turn in the situation sent out to all addresses the fines were originally sent to would find its way to a good majority of the ripped-off people.

Just spied this link about refunds for an unlawful box junction in Leytonstone, East London (E11) so I thought I'd post it in case anyone on this board got caught there: LEYTONSTONE: Council forced to refund thousands in traffic fines You can claim your money back through the Council's parking service on 020 8496 3000. BTW, saw someone at the bottom of that link make a comment that the council should automatically seek the fined people out and refund them as they 'cannot keep any unlawfully derived income'. Anyone agree with that or think it's something that can be forced on the Council?

Well, things have taken a few twists today. My friend received a CC of a new email sent to his manager from the shop head office saying sorry but in the previous email they were mistaken, and the item would have been in the sale after all. Bit of a bizarre sudden change of mind as in the previous email they were so sure. Hmmmmmmmmm.... Also, in a new document outlining the forthcoming disciplinary/written warning, the case is now referred to as something like 'not following procedures for handling finances' - so the theft angle is of no use now - the previous document where 'theft' was used was just the investigation case file. So, my thought is that if by not originally submitting a valid receipt he has 'not followed procedures for handling finances', then my friend really must put his hand up - an appeal seems pointless? A weird thing is though that as part of the disciplinary he's apparently gonna be asked to repay the alleged discrepancy (£15 odd), but not the full amount of the missing receipt. To me this request is still an implied accusation of theft, rather than just trying to re-balance the cash float against any missing/unusable receipts - paying it is like admitting you took it. Should/can my friend refuse to pay? Thoughts??? Also, there are two other points that might give a glimmer of hope: 1. After the initial formal warning which declared that the matter was under investigation, my friend was allowed to carry on their job as normal, still regularly handling money. This was for several weeks. 2. He was only suspended the day after another formal 'grilling' which he had cut short by saying he'd had enough and was seeking advice from the union. It was as if the managers had panicked as soon as this was said, as there was no mention of suspension before. I've no idea if these sorts of things are normal/allowed, but it seems a bit suss. If they're incorrect procedure could it invalidate the disciplinary? If not should my friend mention these 2 points in the disciplinary? Can he ask the managers for explanations of their actions so they're noted in the file?

Thanks sidewinder, that all sounds good advice. Looks like I edited some of my questions while you were replying! I'm seeing my friend later today so will ask some of the questions you pose. The 'theft' element sounds a good way of tripping the managers back up. Are there any Acts or laws on this that my friend can use to back this up? Not that I'm doubting you, but it would cut short any discussions in the meeting if referred to and then produced. From what I've heard the case has not been dealt with using the proper proceedures at all, and they're really just using anything they can think of to be vindictive (IMHO) and in their frenzy don't go by the book. Coz none of us know the book it's hard to realize that at the time. That's why my friend got the union involved in the end. The union say the email is proof enough, but for some reason don't think it's necessary for them to attend the hearing(!?). When you say tribunals have accepted secret recordings, have they also refused them? It seems a bit of a gamble either way.

My friend is having a really bad time at work - it seems the management are using anything to vicimize him and trying to trip him up and sack him over anything. He's facing a formal disciplinary in the next few days for something he didn't do, so please if anyone has any speedy advice this weekend it would be appreciated. I don't want to give specifics to try and keep it anonymous - appologies if this looks sketchy! What happened Basically my friend took money from petty cash to by an item for work. This had all been authorised, and is something he does regularly as part of his job, (and usually for much higher amounts, ie: £100's). A few days later when submitting the receipt he found he'd lost it, so he submitted the price tag as that was all he had. Two months later one of the managers came across all this, and claimed the item was actually in a sale on that day, and that my friend had pocketed the difference. Without the receipt, my friend couldn't prove otherwise, so received a few informal warnings/meetings, and was put under investigation. When he called in the union he was then suspended, until the disciplinary next week. The alleged amount is about £15 (!) My friend has since emailed the head office of the shop and received a reply stating that the sale didn't start until the week after the item was bought and the item would have cost the full amount on the price tag. The management say this email isn't good enough proof and are proceeding with the disciplinary anyway. Also, in the early meetings & documentation the charge was referred to as financial inconsistancies (or similar) but the formal disciplinary is now being referred to specifically as theft (ie: pre-meditated). This is obviously not something you want against your name! My Questions 1. Who is the burden of proof upon? The management could not prove the financial discrepancy did take place any more than my friend can prove that it didn't. The shop have no records as it was bought with cash, almost 3 months ago. 2. Can the management object to my friend recording the disciplinary? 3. Can/should my friend refuse to accept the charge of 'theft' now that he has the shop's email as proof (which the management have verbally said they won't accept)? Or should he accept the disciplinary and then appeal within the next few weeks which would give him time to get a proper signed letter from the shop. 4. If the disciplinary goes badly should my friend annonuce he's appealing there and then, or once it's closed. 5. If the management try introducing other areas of the job where my friend may have slipped up in the past, can my friend dismiss them/cut them short stating they're not the case in hand? How is it best to handle this situation? 6. When giving references for future jobs can this employer mention disiplinaries? If so, is this still the case if they get overturned?

Hi Crimz, I've been using: Virgin Card PO Box 1004 Chester Business Park Chester CH4 9WW It's the same as the MBNA address, and the letters are even coming back headed as MBNA, not even a whiff of the Virgin logo. Well... I WON this little victory! I phoned them to find their previous reply (apparently sent 2 weeks ago) 'got lost in the post'. But they sent a duplicate saying whilst they don't agree with me they're refunding the fee + interest to maintain their relationship with me. Weirdly the money only got credited to me the day of this second duplicate letter. It's almost as if they didn't send the first one at all (otherwise the money would've been credited two weeks ago). hmmmm.... Whatever... I won, and they are idiots!

Karen, please PM me and I'll give you details of who I spoke to directly to get my charges back.

I was totally spurred on by your story (http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/telecoms-mobile-fixed/102043-me-virgin.html). I think the secret is to phone a direct person on the customer care team. If you PM me Karen, I'll give you the direct number, extension & name of who I spoke to, perhaps she can explain the status of your complaint to you and why your LBA has been ignored. You have the winning hand in this situation, because they can see that due to their incompetence you're at the point where you can file a claim that day if they turn you down. Once she'd quickly read my correspondence on file she was very matter of fact and procedural. She didn't try to fob me off or make it sound like they were doing me a favour.

End of thread hijack! Phoned the customer care dept today and spoke directly to the person named on my previous response, just to see what the status of my complaint was (check an offer wasn't stuck in the post). After she quickly read up on it, I then said 'Obviously I don't want to proceed to court and waste their time needlessly.... but I'm just about to in light of no response... etc..........' - and she sheepishly refunded me the remaining £30. Yayyyy. So my whole year of charges paid back! She said 'but you're still going to continue getting charged unless you sign up for DD........' - but I just said 'That's ok, this complaint is now closed. Thanks a lot, bye.' I couldn't be bothered to say that obviously I'll be doing this again in 12 months, which left her a bit flustered and bewildered. Very satisfying!

Thanks for that advice Steven. Can I get an N1 form online or need to go to my court?

OK, Virgin have had over a month to get back to me since my LBA, and all I've had is the above phonecall, and a letter over three weeks ago saying they're really busy but will be in touch in 14 days, maybe longer. (Yeah, thanks...) So, I'm ready to file a claim. Errr..... can anyone help me?!! Any example POCs I can use? Also, they've credited my account with £30. Do I still claim the full £60?? (in my LBA I said to keep the £30 if it got to this stage.)

Not heard a thing back from MBNA on this, and it's several days past the 14 day deadline, and I built in a 14 day extension from my prelim start daye, just to try and get it resolved. Tsk.... I'm gonna get the Claim ready over the weekend and file it first thing Monday if nothing has turned up. Is it still possible to use MCOL for this?? I saw big notices saying 'STOP' for the bank charges - does this apply to Credit Card claims too?

Letter is now posted. Fingers x'd.

Curses..... I have received a reply saying that they're not going to give a refund (for £12 flippin' quid!!!). So, given the low claim amount and the fact they didn't reply to the prelim letter, I've drafted up one final request with a little sting in the tail - that I will cancel my account with them (which I will gladly do). It's all standard text at the top of the letter - I put my own wording in about half way down. Please could someone glance over it before I send it tomorrow, I don't want it to go against me if I have to take it to court (which I will do if I get rejected again) - please let me know your thoughts.

Hi Karen, Don't give up! As you've discovered phoning/emailing them is hopeless as you get the same robotic answers going round and round in circles. They say they 'can't' do the refunds, but of course they mean they 'won't'. Even if their system doesn't allow for it, they're perfectly capable of adding credit to the same value. I get the impression staff are on very strict instructions not to give in, hence they say they keep saying they can't. But - I am about to get a final reply from Virgin on whether they will refund me £60 of non-DD payments. If they say no I will definitely file a claim. I'm not 100% sure on what to put, but then I'm not so bothered if I lose, I just wanna see what happens and wind them up a bit. If I win however, you can follow what I do.

Just to update I got a phonecall today from Virgin asking to talk about the matter/explain that they are only offering £30 as OFCOM have said the charge is fair [have they??!] and 'the only way to avoid the charge was to pay by DD.' I told them if they didn't pay by the 14th day I will proceed with action and the court will decide if the price of the charges is fair compared to Bank Transfer costs, and that obviously Virgin will be made to reveal their costs as part of this process. The guy said he'd speak to his manager and see if there's any way to sort it. I said 'put me on to your manager and I'll explain it straight to him' but he wouldn't - he said they'd get back to me. :D

Hmm.. I got back home on the day I posted above to find a letter from MBNA saying they were looking into it and I'd get a reply by 20th Jan. I know the normal protocol is to stick to your own timelines, but given it's only for £12 do you think I should hang on to hear their reply?

I got charged £12 for a late payment. I phoned and asked for a refund on the charge but they were only willing to give £6 back, so I said I'd write and get it back. My first letter was ignored. Got no reply at all. My LBA has also been ignored. I explicitly stated the 14th day (3rd Jan) by which I expected payment, but I've received nothing. The tracking code shows the letter was received by them on 24 Dec. What should I do? Technically I should file with moneyclaim, but for £12 I'm not sure I should? I really thought they'd have paid up. Should I phone them and ask why they've not replied and explain I'm about to file a court claim if they don't credit me by the end of the day?

I got a reply to my prelim letter within 14 days offering £30 for the stress I'd experienced, but explaining in the usual parrot fashion that the only way to avoid the charge was to pay by DD. This week I've sent a LBA saying I accept it as part payment but want the full amount (£60) within the next 14 days. Will have to see what happens...