Hi Toxic, I have read your thread with interest and other than you having 2 agreements (weird) think the questions you need answering are the same as what i want answering. I have started a new thread in the MBNA section with some questions that i think most of us need to understand the answers to, to know which direction to move forward in. I have covered some of the issues that are concerning you in it it will help a lot of us. Misterv

Hi everyone, Just to let you know where im at with MNBA. The last letter i sent them was to tell them they had sent me a copy of an application form and not a copy of the CCA. I dont think my "application form" has all the prescribed terms on for starters. Anyway... MBNA have been surprisingly quiet, only had a few calls, nothing too drastic. Today i received a letter from AEGIS asking me to make a payment and telling me what a great customer i am etc etc... Not sure who these AEGIS people are, should i write back telling them the account is in dispute? Hopefully somebody can pass on some advice Thanks Thanks Fangio, all that did was confuse me more lol I think this would clear up a lot of uncertainty on this forum if we could get difinitive answers here on this thread to the following questions. 1) Amount of credit. - Does this have to be stated as a figure or is it acceptable for a credit card company to say " we will set the credit limit and may change it from time to time" ? Its obvious that as just an application form to apply for a credit card it wouldnt have a credit limit on. Depending on the answer to the question, this pretty much rules out this option as an unenforceable point. 2) Is it acceptable to show the interest as just the APR ? 3) I have read that an agreement becomes unenforceable if the credit limit is increased without the consent of the debtor? 4) Does the name and address of the debtor and creditor have to appear together? 5) Can an application form be considered a valid CCA? (assuming it has the correct prescribed terms) 6) If the application form/CCA has all the correct prescribed terms, do they have to be on the same side of paper? Or if they can be on the back/another sheet of paper does it have to say, see overleaf or, see seperate terms and conditions? 7) Can current terms and conditions be deemed acceptable? (Obviously the new ones show the £12 penalty charge)? 8) What exactly does the phrase " four corners of the agreement mean?" 9) How can an application form be a true CCA, surely an agreement becomes "legal" after they have agreed the application. At application stage it is exactly what it says. Surely a CCA is sent after an application has been approved? 10) Does an agreement have to say " Credit card agreement?' or is "Credit agreement" sufficent? I think if these questions are answered by the experts here it might clear up 75% of the questions that need to be addressed to enable people to make an informed judgement on their own cases. I really hope this helps. Thanks for listening.

Anybody else got any advice on enforceability or next step? Send a SAR Request? Any help appreciated.

In a similar position myself Kaz and unsure what to do next. I think your idea to send a letter asking if this is a copy of the original is worth a go before sending a Subject Access Request. However, As you say they will just send another copy of the application form and your stuck in the same boat again ! Will watch your developments with interest. Good Luck

Thanks SB, I think i have reached a real turning point here whether to challenge the legality of the CCA or not. After careful consideration i have decided to write to MBNA and question my application form but am a bit unsure which road to go down. I read on your thread that you sent a letter questioning the legality of your CCA/Application form. You are a couple of steps ahead of me but i think we are following similar paths. So my question is : Send a letter questioning the CCA? or Request a SAR? I think it is fairly critical i get the next move right. Your comments appreciated.

Thanks for that SB, makes interesting reading. So i should go for a SAR request? Do i keep paying them? They sent the above information within the 12+2 day deadline but im not sure what to do next? Am i right in thinking i can only stop paying if the information falls outside of this deadline? Thanks

Advice please, MBNA missed the 12 + 2 day deadline but i have since received the documents that are posted above. I am still unsure what my next step is. Do I assume that because they missed the deadline they are at fault and the account is in dispute or do i reply to the information they have sent? Im unclear as to whether the application form and terms and conditions are classed as a CCA. Thanks

Hi, The application form was filled out in October 1997. There is no date, as such on the terms and conditions, however if you look there is a number printed on the bottom left LA-10-97-161-N, does this represents a date?, in this case - October 1997. The date of my application is October 1997. Surely this isnt a coincidence? What can be classed as a glaring error Fred? Thing is ive come this far and as with a lot of people at some point you have to make a calculated decision as to whether you have a case for a CCA not being enforceable and sit tight and wait, or, you have to make a payment and assume the CCA is correct and in their favour. Your comments as ever much appreciated.

Thanks Fred Can anyone clarify what it means when the 'current' terms and conditions are sent with the original application/agreement ? Presumably they dont have the original. Thanks

Slick, Am i able to move this thread to Data Protection and default? Might be more relevant there? Thanks MisterV

Part of the problem originally was that Barclays had been sending correspondence to my old address after i had asked them to close 2 accounts. Even after telling them i had moved they sent some letters to my old address (they even acknowledge this in one of their letters.) I was closing two accounts - one was business and one was personal. They closed the business account and wiped a small outstanding amount (approx £50) after i complained. However they failed to close the personal account and continued to send statements to my old address. I wrongly assumed both were closed. My problem is i didnt cancel a direct debit (approx £16 per month) and they continued to pay it and add charges and interest to the account. (I assume they sent letters to my old address). Should they have kept paying it when they could see the account wasent active?. I have successfully claimed back all bank charges and interest on the account but have refused to accept the payment until they remove the default notice. I would forego the refund of charges in exchange for the default being removed. However to get both would obviously be the best outcome. Please help !!

(sorry ignore post above - posted in wrong name - should always check that the other person is logged out Thanks newborn, Part of the problem originally was that Barclays had been sending correspondence to my old address after i had asked them to close 2 accounts. Even after telling them i had moved they sent some letters to my old address (they even acknowledge this in one of their letters.) I was closing two accounts - one was business and one was personal. They closed the business account and wiped a small outstanding amount (approx £50) after i complained. However they failed to close the personal account and continued to send statements to my old address. I wrongly assumed both were closed. My problem is i didnt cancel a direct debit (approx £16 per month) and they continued to pay it and add charges and interest to the account. (I assume they sent letters to my old address). Should they have kept paying it when they could see the account wasent active?. I have successfully claimed back all bank charges and interest on the account but have refused to accept the payment until they remove the default notice. I would forego the refund of charges in exchange for the default being removed. However to get both would obviously be the best outcome. Please help !!

Hi fedup Thanks for the fast response, you are right the card was taken out in 1999. I cant remember exactly how i made the application. Is this critical in whether i have acase or not? The second link shows what was on the back of the signed application, which says Financial and Related conditions. Does that make sense? Appreciate your help/

Hi, After MBNA missing their 12 + 2 day deadline, i received a letter on 6th December. Please could i get some advice. Seems to me like an application form and set of terms and conditions. http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0001-1.jpg Rear of above: http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0002-1.jpg Next four links are the copy of the terms and conditions: http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0003-1.jpg http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0004-1.jpg http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0005-1.jpg http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0006-1.jpg Thanks MisterV Hello, I have 2 MBNA accounts (yes i know how stupid can one person be) and am seeking CCA for both. They are in separate threads and i am grateful for all your help so far. Sent a letter requesting a copy of the CCA. Received the following within the 12 day deadline. Could anyone help please and tell me where i stand with the following. http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0001-2.jpg Rear of above: http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0002-2.jpg Terms and conditions: http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0003-2.jpg http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0004-2.jpg http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0005-2.jpg http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0006-2.jpg Thanks everyone.

seems we are in a similar boot MR2Phil

Hi Sent a letter to Barclays asking for a default to be removed and any information held on me to be removed also. Got a template letter from this site which had previously worked for the person who wrote it. (apparently barclays lifted the default in 72 hours) Barclays wrote back saying i had consented to their terms and conditions and that continued retention is necessary under the terms of the contract entered into. It is barclays view that such consent was not limited to the duration of the account and therefore cannot be revoked. " Barclays cannot simply delete a customer record when a contract with a customer is cancelled or terminated It is Barclays' standard retention policy to retain personal data about former customers for 6 years after the relationship has ended. Similarly, a default (even if it marked "satisfied") will remain on a customers crdit file for a 6 year period after being loaded, in accordance with industry practice agreed with the information Commissioner's Office ("Information Commissioners Office"). They also enclosed information produced by the Information Commissioners Office regarding Credit Agreements - Data Sharing which appears to favour their argument. Any help greatly appreciated...

Thanks for the replies. Yes Fox - sent the letter special delivery and have printed off the proof of delivery.

Hi, Have heard nothing from MBNA and the 12 day deadline has passed. Do i have to send them another letter or now let the further 30 day deadline pass. From reading threads i understand they are in default and i can stop paying?

Hi, Hope somebody can point me in the right direction. Had problems with Barclays a few years ago which ended in them issuing a default notice. Briefly this came about by me moving house and changing both personal and business accounts at the same time. Total cock up basically, they were writing to me at my old address and ignored my change of address correspondence. Anyway, I cleared the oustanding amount (approx £1800) but they still defaulted me. Everything was done in house and they promised no DCA would be involved. Having come across this brilliant forum i wondered if it worth trying to have the default removed. I saw a link to a letter a few weeks ago where you can ask for the default to be removed but cant find it now. Read other threads and i know its almost mission impossible to get them removed. Any help / suggestions greatly appreciated.

Hi to all, Have taken great heart from reading the threads regarding the dreaded MBNA and realise just how important the help and support here is to have any chance of success. I have decided to act and have sent MBNA a CCA request. Like others i will need undoubtedly seek help and guidance and hopefully at some point i can also offer some help and support myself. Will keep you up to date with developments. MisterV