It should be noted that the particulars of claims should be slightly different in Scotland from those in the library pertaining to England. Contrary to the particulars of claim here and on the Govan Law school site you cannot ask for 'a declaration from this honourable court that the term of the contract leading to the application of the charges is unenforceable' as a declaration is not available through a small claims action. Do not put this on your form 1 or statement of claim or they will send you away to amend it. It's pain as this is really the most important deterant for the banks to stay out of court Unfortunatly here in Scotland you'll just have to settle for getting your cash back with 8% interest. Do any of the moderators think this weakens our position at all?

-

Only change the reason for charge and date incurred field not the interest column or the days since offence column and ensure are using the correct date format i.e 13/03/2006 and it should work. Try this then come back here.

If you don't ask you don't get!

Well today on The Jeremy Vine show they were discussing the Ian Blair case about him recording the conversation with the attourney general. Apparently that's right that you can record a conversation with someone for your own use but if you want to then use it or let it be heard by someone else then you have to have the third party permission...and if Jeremy Vine says so then it must be true!

Oh pleeeease doo read the FAQ's Dannster, you've bveen here a while now and i know there is a lot going on here what with 6500 members n all that!! ...but really! you really should know how to ' take them to court' sorry..... but come on..... take a look around you know the script

Vix please don't get me wrong I do have sympathy when things go wrong or I wouldn't be here would I? I've screwed up really badly over the last few years and have had no sympathy from the banks. The amount they have taken from me is disgraceful and until finding this forum I was very embarressed about my financial situation. Since coming here I've been able to talk to other members about it and found that they too have felt the pinch from these charges. Its just that I'm trying to understand how the banks arrive at the decisions they make and I do not find all their terms unreasonable. As I said I run a small business and the pressure that I have felt due to charges has left me teetering on the edge of personal and company bankruptcy. However in some aspects would still have to agree with the banks terms with regard to payment. Sorry if I seem not to care for peoples different circumstances because i really do. I as much as anyone hear want to see things change I am just trying to be realistic about what I can expect from them thats all.

Hi Dan, I'd like to tell you a story too. It kind of starts with your nice little quote 'Of course banks make loads of money, but that's capitalism for ya, get in the real world'. The real world of capitalism is based upon a market economy which is partially sustained by people who take risks with capital in order to create wealth which in turn creates growth within the economy. Fact. Not that people who sit behind the desks in banks don't contribute too! Sometimes they get it right and sometimes they get it wrong hey! thats life. But without those who are prepared to take risks, businesses will not prosper and grow. A great deal of a banks income is generated through business clients who have taken that risk. Often in the case of small business, initial start-up capital is raised from personal assets leaving a great deal of instability in personal finance. Often traditional sources of funding have failed. Creative and adventurous people always believe in themselves so much that they are prepared to put everything on the line. Yes those risks have to be calculated and we should not suffer fools gladly. Sometimes there can be a misjudgement in cashflow or a overestimation of sales forcast which can have a dramatic effect on both personal and business finances. By penalisheaing in the way they currently do, banks can easily perpetuate a downward spiral and dampen entreprenerial spirit by forcing one into negative cashflow situation when as stated before personal and business finances are so closely linked. Is this fair or indeed a healthy attitude to bolster a boyant and progressive economy? Well it depends on whether or not you are a share holder in a financial institution. Fortunatly there are people here who feel, whether they control thier finances correctly or not, that there is simply a question as to whether they are being treated fairly. I'm sure that on occasion you will feel a certain security from knowing that the law is strutured in such a way as to offer you protection from 'unfairness' in dealings with large instituions when you are in the position of consumer. Or perhaps you would rather that these institutions go unregulated? The majority of the banks in the UK subscribe to the Banking code which one supposes is a form of self regulation and I quote from the guidence notes to that code 'We promise that we will act fairly and reasonably in all our dealings with you by meeting all the commitments and standards in this Code' 'When interpreting 'fairly', consideration should be given to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and to the Data Protection Principles set out in Part 1 of Schedule 1 to the Data Protection Act 1998. The concepts of 'fairness' and 'reasonableness' should also be considered in accordance with other relevant legislation, case law and their normal dictionary meanings' As mentioned the banking code is subscribed to by the majority of the banks in the UK. It appears to be a voluntary standard for the banking industry much like the 'Investers in people' award that many companies now display to demonstate a commitment to good working practices and adhesion to employment leglislation. I would put it to you that if your employer was involved in this 'Investors in People' (as are many of the banks coincidently, please do check yours) that you would reasonably expect that they would adhere to the principles therin. So is it therefore unreasonable to expect, as a customer, that when a bank distributes the banking code on a regular basis to its customers to illustrate its affiliation, that the bank should adhere to this code also? I think that this is not unreasonable . Do you? A interesting point has been made that we shold not then have signed the terms and conditions if we are not happy with the coditions set out within them. However it seems increasingly that we have little choice in the matter as aspects of our daily financial life reqiure more and more automation and the banks have little to distiguish between them. The guidence notes for subscribers to thebanking code itself states 'The banks subscribe to the code and agree that there is clear and considerable benefit to customers if firms doing similar business are subject to similar regulatory requirements and it helps promote a level playing field for firms. Accordingly, we would encourage any firm offering banking products and services to subscribe to the Codes.' So where does that leave us? Accept the terms of the bank unconditionally and never challenge them on the deviation from the terms and conditions which they have set for themselves? Allow them to flout the law which sucessive Governments have set in place to protect the consumer? I think not. I hope you will understand a little better my own reasons for pursuing the money that has been wrongfully taken from me and from others like me. I would deter you from making sweeping generalisations about people whose circumstances you are unaware of. By all means extoll the virtues of capitalism (of which I am a big fan), do read Marx and Engles in order that you fully understand its principles !!! And apart from anything else I am a little suprised to hear a bank employee critisizing people on this forum who subsidise the wage bill in your industry to the tune of 3bn a year. After all there is an old saying 'Never bite the hand that feeds you'.

Leagally a vendor can always stipulate the terms of payment and sale. I guess that if you look at it in the way that if you want to sell something to someone then you would be quite within your rights to ask for immediate payment or payment in a month by cheque or cash or whatever. I think that many financial institutions find it easier to track DD's than to have people say 'the cheque was sent three days ago havn't you got it yet?' or 'you should have got it by now i paid it in on xxxday'. It just cuts out any flexibility with regard to payment. As a business owner, I myself really could not afford to have customers dictating to me the terms of repayment....I would be bust in a week! Don't get me wrong i'm not an advocate for the banks but we do have to respect the fact that they are providing a service and expect to be paid for that service in order to make a profit. Terms of business are set by them. The point of this forum is not to challenge the right to make profit or dictate conditions of sale but to questions violations of law with regard to unfair charges. Don't mean to sound harsh it's just a point of view

Here's the version from the library http://idigital.vm.bytemark.co.uk/bag/forum/viewtopic.php?t=564

I may be wrong but I think this is what Stephen is doing. http://idigital.vm.bytemark.co.uk/bag/forum/viewtopic.php?t=379

Always a good idea to add a date then everyone knows where they stand. If you send the letter by recorded delivery guarenteed next day then you could put that date on it. Again everyone knows where they stand. Let them work out when the 40 days is up....we would all hope that the banks are good with numbers As far as account details go then you have to give them at least yuor sort code and account number or they will not know to which account you are reffering. Hope this helps. I would say that from my experiance it is worth trying to get your statements over the phone even after you have sent your dpa request. The halifax have been quicker than most in sending them and only charged me a fiver in the end for six years worth.

Mondeo, just to let you know that after a bit of a struggle with the people at blue amex phone banking i got all my statements. They arrived all neatly packaged in one bundle. In fact I thought it was Christmas....especially when I thought about how much this prezzie could be worth. I also have a few phone numbers that may be helpful in your dealings with them in future. I'll post them in my thread. I think that when I mentioned a ' Pending legal action' the chap on the phone gave in! I think I had to ask for the supervisor three times before actually getting to anyone who could make a decesion. In the end I got them all free. Good luck.....I did think it is worth persisting on the phone before applying under DPA as you can really get the ball rolling rather than having to wait for 40 days.

Oh Fek! Thats not what I wanted to hear. I got the feeling on the phone today that whilst they were polite and very professional they are not going to give in easily. Has anyone got anything back from them yet? I guess I'm feeling a bit nervous now but really I don't have a lot to lose do I? I owe them about £2000 and my claim is for £413 with interest comes to £509. I charged them at the 8% as on the spreadsheet but should I reconsider this and charge them at the rate they have charged me on the charges they have levied. To be honest I think they are getting a good deal!

Oh Fek! Thats not what I wanted to hear. I got the feeling on the phone today that whilst they were polite and very professional they are not going to give in easily. Has anyone got anything back from them yet? I guess I'm feeling a bit nervous now but really I don't have a lot to lose do I? I owe them about £2000 and my claim is for £413 with interest comes to £509. I charged them at the 8% as on the spreadsheet but should I reconsider this and charge them at the rate they have charged me on the charges they have levied. To be honest I think they are getting a good deal!

Hi all, I posted my letter last Thursday and they got it on Friday. Called today and asked if they wanted to respond to my letter or if they were happy for me to commence proceeding as detailed in my letter. The nice lady said they had not recieved a letter but when I told her the registered post number it appear as if by magic. The nice lady asked a few questions like why are you claiming this back now? Why did you sign the agreement if you did not intend tio be bound by the T&C? I gave appropiate replies and referred her to my letter. She said that she would speak to someone and that they would call me back by the end of next week. That's fine I said and thank you but i must remind you that as you have failed to respond to my letter in the alloted time I am afraid that the course of action detailed therein will continue to apply namly that a claim for reimbursement will be filed with the court tomorrow. OK the nice lady said i'll call you back at 4PM. And she did ! AT 4PM! Your case is now with the executive commitee and they will respond within the next week. Thats fine I said and thank you but I must remind you that...............................I'll keep you posted

Hi all, I posted my letter last Thursday and they got it on Friday. Called today and asked if they wanted to respond to my letter or if they were happy for me to commence proceeding as detailed in my letter. The nice lady said they had not recieved a letter but when I told her the registered post number it appear as if by magic. The nice lady asked a few questions like why are you claiming this back now? Why did you sign the agreement if you did not intend tio be bound by the T&C? I gave appropiate replies and referred her to my letter. She said that she would speak to someone and that they would call me back by the end of next week. That's fine I said and thank you but i must remind you that as you have failed to respond to my letter in the alloted time I am afraid that the course of action detailed therein will continue to apply namly that a claim for reimbursement will be filed with the court tomorrow. OK the nice lady said i'll call you back at 4PM. And she did ! AT 4PM! Your case is now with the executive commitee and they will respond within the next week. Thats fine I said and thank you but I must remind you that...............................I'll keep you posted

Just a wee thought. A while back I had a dd coming out and was going to pay in some cash on the day it was due. I did this but they still charged me saying that it had to be cleared funds at the time they tried to take it out...apparently 5am!!! They said I should have paid it in the day before. Now here in Scotland there are all sorts of strange bank and public holidays...sometimes the banks seem to observe the different ones for FiFe or Edinburgh or Scotland or the UK... it gets alittle confusing. I told the Halifax that in this case I was not able to pay in money the day before because it was an Edinburgh Holiday being observed by the branch that I regularly use. They said it doesn't matter as they observe only UK holidays with regard to the operation of my account. I pointed out to them that my account was opened in Edinburgh and that surley the local holidays are relevent in a case such as this. You can imagine the kind of reply...just the usual blah blah blah. Does this then mean that if they are operating my account by English bank hours and terms e.t.c that I would be able to,(if it goes that far) pursue my claim in an English court and therefore benefit fron the higher no fee limit and six year limitation period instead of the Scottish Five years. They did actually mention that the Banks HQ is still in Halifax and therefore it is an English operation eventhough HBOS is now based in Edinburgh. Sorry this is a bit confusing but would appriciate a little clarification as they do not seem too helpful at the moment...any thoughts anyone? PS I wondered if this is not possible can I change my account address to that of my parents in England and pursue it from there as I have about five hundred quid from 2000 that I'd like back!

Just a wee thought. A while back I had a dd coming out and was going to pay in some cash on the day it was due. I did this but they still charged me saying that it had to be cleared funds at the time they tried to take it out...apparently 5am!!! They said I should have paid it in the day before. Now here in Scotland there are all sorts of strange bank and public holidays...sometimes the banks seem to observe the different ones for FiFe or Edinburgh or Scotland or the UK... it gets alittle confusing. I told the Halifax that in this case I was not able to pay in money the day before because it was an Edinburgh Holiday being observed by the branch that I regularly use. They said it doesn't matter as they observe only UK holidays with regard to the operation of my account. I pointed out to them that my account was opened in Edinburgh and that surley the local holidays are relevent in a case such as this. You can imagine the kind of reply...just the usual blah blah blah. Does this then mean that if they are operating my account by English bank hours and terms e.t.c that I would be able to,(if it goes that far) pursue my claim in an English court and therefore benefit fron the higher no fee limit and six year limitation period instead of the Scottish Five years. They did actually mention that the Banks HQ is still in Halifax and therefore it is an English operation eventhough HBOS is now based in Edinburgh. Sorry this is a bit confusing but would appriciate a little clarification as they do not seem too helpful at the moment...any thoughts anyone? PS I wondered if this is not possible can I change my account address to that of my parents in England and pursue it from there as I have about five hundred quid from 2000 that I'd like back!

Mrplan is this from your local branch or Halifax HO. Just wondering if this is the position of the Top brass or the branch manager.

Mrplan is this from your local branch or Halifax HO. Just wondering if this is the position of the Top brass or the branch manager.

http://www.royalmailgroup.com/aboutus/about_us.asp

http://www.royalmailgroup.com/aboutus/about_us.asp

I'll continue thread in General if thats ok so as not to duplicate info when I get post office T&C tomorrow

I'll continue thread in General if thats ok so as not to duplicate info when I get post office T&C tomorrow