Agree wholeheartedly that we should save any aggro for the financial institutions! Of course, you're right, I ain't seen your spreadsheet. I was going more by what you said in post #30 - which I took to mean you were seeking the return of the PPI premium and the proportion of your monthly repayments which was attributable to PPI, as well as s69 interest on both - and concluded you were using Bog's spreadsheet [which appears to adopt just such an approach]. If I'm guilty of putting two and two together and coming up with five then I apologise. Just for the record, I agree unequivocally with what ims21 has written above but maintain that Bog's spreadsheet is horribly flawed. Regardless, best of luck! Fred_Funk PS If you're so inclined, I'd be very interested in seeing your spreadsheet.

Whatever you might like to think, I'm trying to be helpful. Fingers crossed, your claim won't get as far as court but if it does then unless you amend your PoC, to reflect the fact that your figues are flawed, then you can, I think, be almost certain of losing [regardless of whether or not your PPI was actually mis-sold]. I looked at the spreadsheet and was 99.9 per cent certain it was incorrect but wouldn't have wanted anyone to take my word for it which is why I asked the member of the site team, steven4064, who's acknowledged as the leading authority on such matters to also take a look. If you want to ignore his advice then that is, of course, entirely your prerogative but would, I think, be ill advised. I haven't yet got as far as court on PPI but did go down that route on bank charges and, I can tell you now, that if your PoC appear to demonstrate in any way whatsoever that you don't have a full grasp of what you're arguing the bank's legal team will use that as a basis on which to ask that the claim is struck out.

It's a myth they can't insist you take out PPI. They can. They can't, however, insist you take out their PPI.

Can you elaborate on the £5.82 PPI overcharge referred to in your spreadsheet?!

Take a look at post #72 on this thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?300578-Natwest-PPI-Claim-Help/page4 steven4064, who is acknowledged as the authority on this kinda stuff, has agreed that, as I suspected, the template you have used is fundamentally flawed.

Put the figures you give above in the following loan calculator and you'll see that they're correct: http://yourmoney.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/tools/loan_calculator.html

What ims21 has just said in post #69 is correct. You are, I think, in danger of making this far more complicated than it needs to be! If you what your monthly loan repayment was - as you do - and what proportion of this attributable to PPI then there is no 'hidden interest'. Imagine the bank lends you 1k to which it adds interest at the rate of 20 per cent per annum which you repay over the course of 12 months, ie the interest is £200 and you repay 12 x £100. Clearly, the interest is included in the figure you repay, it ain't hidden anywhere. Use Mindzai's spreadsheet to calculate the interest the FOS is likely to award you, ie s69 interest at 8 per cent simple [not compounded]. For instance, if you paid £52.23 on July 1, 2007, then this equates to approximately £16.40 making a total of £68.63. If you opted for the court route then you could seek compound interest in restitution [on the basis of Sempra]. Mindzai's spreadsheet will also give you a figure for this [use the tabs on the left-hand side of the page to move between the different interest figures]. There is an argument for asking for compound interest in restitution if you go down the court route - and it'll produce a higher figure than simple s69 interest - but it's a case of asking for either/or and not one on top of the other. Fingers crossed, all is now clear! Fred_Funk PS I think some of the confusion may stem from you having your figures wrong. I downloaded the spreadsheet you posted up last night and you said you made 60 repayments of £253.38 equating to a total of £15,202.80. However, this is some £527 less than the total of your loan amount [12,596.00] and your PPI premium [3,133.80].

It's 8 per cent per annum. Fifty-two months, ie 4.33 years, have passed since February 2007 so it's [4.33 x 8] x 52.23 = 18.11. Have you got it?!

Sorry matey, not sure what point you're trying to make here?! Hopefully everything is making a bit more sense now but, please, do let us know!

Please tell me that means you're agreeing with me; I'm beginning to confuse myself now!

Indeed. Unless, that is, you know the total cost of PPI, ie premium + interest, in which case you just need to work out how much that equates to per month. In this instance, the total cost of PPI was 3,133.80 and the loan was scheduled for 60 months, meaning the PPI cost 52.23 per month.

I think 3.5k is in the right ballpark though I'd be interested to hear the exact figure you've arrived at. The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that BOG's spreadsheet is flawed. I think its intention is to take the two elements relating to the PPI, ie the premium and the interest, and then to calculate the s69 interest on each. However, this isn't what the spreadsheet does. Rather, it takes the total cost of PPI [3,133.80] and calculates interest on the basis that you shelled out this sum on February 1, 2007 which, of course, you didn't. And even if you had done, this figure already includes the interest you paid for borrowing this - ie 60 x 20.62 = 1,237.20 - so if you then proceed to work out the interest accrued on that you are, in effect, adding in again something you've already accounted for - albeit incorrectly. What you need to do is work out how much you paid each month for PPI, which is simply a case of dividing the total cost of the PPI [3,133.80] by the number of months over which the loan was scheduled [60], giving you 52.23 per month. Then put this figure 52.23 in the spreadsheet for every month from February 2007 up to and including your last payment and let the spreadsheet work its magic. Though there might be very slight variations between different spreadsheets, you should find that the 52.23 you paid on February 1, 2007, has earned interest of 18.11 making a total of 70.34, while the 52.23 you paid on June 1, 20011 has earned interest of just 37p making a total of 52.60. The sum of these figures gives you the total you should be asking for for mis-sold PPI with s69 interest. Do, please, let me know if this makes sense!

Hi! I've downloaded your spreadsheet and had a quick look but am struggling to get my head around the figures. I've only had a chance to have a quick look, thus far, but I tend to think the figures produced by BOG's spreadsheet are wrong. It looks to me as if the interest element of the PPI repayments is being counted twice. The monthly calculations of the interest on the interest are, I think, correct. However, if you're going to do this you need to deduct the interest element [ie 20.62 x 60 = 1,237.20] from the figure of 3,133.80 before adding in the s69 interest. This being the case, I reckon BOG's spreadsheet is probably adds around 1k too much to the total and it should be in the region of £3,500. Am I making any sense?

Thanks to all those who have contributed on this thread, your input is much appreciated. If I may would just like to clarify a few of the points made by steven4064… This letter would, in effect, be my prelim; I've said I'll give them 14 days to respond at which point I'll send 'em an LBA giving 'em a further 14 days before initiating court action. This being the case, I take it you'd agree I'm not being unreasonable?! I dare say you're right but not sure how my approach comes across as 'a bit of each'. Can you elaborate? I haven't mentioned s69 interest [have I] or are you merely suggesting I was right not to… once again, clarification would be much appreciated. Thanks in anticipation Fred_Funk

Which of the two spreadsheets I linked to are you using? Mindzai's is probably the most straightforward. One page shows the figures if you're simply looking for s69 interest; another shows the figures if you're gonna be a bit more ambitious and go for contractual [compound] interest in restitution [on the basis of Sempra]. And finally… what figure are you putting into the spreadsheet, for instance, do you know how much you paid each month in PPI + interest?! It might, I think, help us to help you if you could post a few figures.

Yeah, I tried using BOG's excel sheet before and, though it was probably just me, got nowhere fast with it. Think you might find the spreadsheets I've suggested a whole lot simpler!

Think they were devised for bank charges but they work perfectly for PPI. Just ignore the superfluous columns.

Both of the spreadsheets listed at the bottom of this link have stood the test of time! http://www.shweb.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

Thanks, again, for your thoughts. Mindful of what you've said, I think I might give 'em a month - as opposed to a fortnight - to 'accept, unconditionally, my request in principle and let me know a date by which I will receive payment - by cheque, directly to me'. ;-) However, I'm not, at this point, minded to take out the references to the possibility of court action. My fear is that unless I'm explicit about this they'll assume my intention is to go down the FOS route and be in no rush to resolve my complaint. What does everyone reckon?!

Thanks for sharing you're thoughts, it's appreciated. Be that as it may, my understanding - and I only know what I've learnt on here - is that the eight weeks is entirely arbitrary and, in any case, relates to how long a financial institution has to respond as and when the FOS is involved. If, like me, you're inclined to avoid the FOS and instead go down the court route you can, as I understand it, impose your own timescales. Take a look at this… http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?738-Get-your-PPI-money-now … you will, I reckon, find it interesting and, more to the point, understand the rational for the approach I'm contemplating. Fred_Funk

Here's the letter I'm intending to send off with my girlfriend's completed FOS questionnaire. As ever, I'd appreciate your guys thoughts, especially with regard to: [1] Playing hardball and threatening court action at such an early juncture; and [2] Asking for compound interest [on the basis of Sempra]. Thanks in anticipation Fred_Funk

Apologies if I'm being a bit dim - it's entirely conceivable - but I'm still not convinced by your figures. If the PPI accounts for 20 per cent of the total loan then I agree you should be seeking repayment of 20 per cent [ie £50] of each of the repayments you made plus interest. But, surely, you can't also ask for repayment of the 4k the PPI cost as you never parted with this money in the first place?! For instance, I'm currently looking at reclaiming some PPI on a hire purchase agreement. The PPI is shown separately; the cash price being £798.00 and the interest/charge for credit £447.12 making a total of £1,245.12. This equates to 48 payments of £25.94 [48 x 25.94 = £1,245.12]. I am, therefore, looking to reclaim each of these payments of £25.94 plus statutory - or even compound interest in restitution [on the basis of Sempra] - from the date of the payment until today. I can't also ask for the £1,245.12 the PPI cost back as that, in effect, is asking for the same thing twice.

Sounds like a complete red herring to me. Who said this to you?!

God give me strength! ;-) In your first post on this thread you say some people are 'digging far too deep into the whole PPi issue', you then accuse me of 'jumping the gun'... which one is it?! For the record, I'm well aware an FOS complaint form makes no court threats and can't understand why you might think otherwise. My intention is to write to the finance company, enclosing a completed FOS questionnaire, and mentioning the possibility of my pursuing them to court and, at the same time, seeking compound interest in restitution if they don't play ball.

My intention is, in the first instance, to do exactly as you say. I'm hoping that the threat of court action - if that's the route we do elect to take - will be enough to make 'em cough. What I don't want to do when I am, IMO, in a position of strength is to make any ill-conceived threats which encourage them to think I don't know what I'm talking about and, as such, worth taking on.