Mick, I may well be missing your point, but at the same time, i think you are missing mine. Halifax or any other bank DO NOT specify the credit details that are entered on BACS payments, these are transmitted by the SENDER. they CANNOT alter any information that is received, as this could constitute fraud. for someone to hack into your account, they would need at a minimum of 3 pieces of information, your user name your password your security question answer somehow, and the how may never be known, they have obtained this information and gained access to your account. no matter what security is applied to it, the fact remains, the internet is not always a secure area, there is always a risk, no matter what site you visit. the advent of token based authentication and biometric based are improving the general security of sites that require it, but unfortunatley, banks have been slow to implement this on the consumer side, primarily due to the sheer cost scale involved (maybe they will end up making a charge of £5 or something in future) but until that point, they, and we are faced with a system that will always have one crucial weak link. The weak link is ALWAYS the user, (and this is not meant as having a dig at you mick, i am talking generally). For more information (if you are so inclined) you should google the term "Social Engineering". In general, people always use passwords that are memorable to them, things like spouse names, childrens names etc etc etc. therefore, through a simple conversation on the street, someone bumps into you, and thinks they know you, your natural reaction when faced with someone purporting to know you and asking questions is to answer for example: Me: Oh, hiya, how you doing. not seen you for ages, hows your wife?? erm, Margaret, Maud... You: Madge you mean Me: Oh yeah, thats right, Madge, is she OK? how about the kids, your eldest must be what now, 15 / 16 Jamie was it? You: John, yeah he is actually 17. and so on. From just a simple conversation like that, the fraudster has already got more information than you would normally give out. it gets even easier when they purport to be carrying out a market research survey. Automated fraud systems do monitor accounts, and in your case mick you were lucky that they used it to pay their credit card bill, as that means they will be found and brought to justice. I am not advocating banks, and I am not condoning the rip off tactics i use, but where they are being slated for showing information thay they have no control over, I will stand up and say so. Like you said Mick, you started this thread as a warning to others, so in that respect it should stand, but to perhaps prevent any further misunderstanding, maybe a mod should lock it.

jody, the sim they will have sent out will just be a standard PAYG sim pack. they do not do seperate ones for swapping end of contract numbers onto. they should have advised you in some way of the necessity of activating / registering the sim and getting the number swapped onto it, if they did not, then you can use this as a defense, say you were improperly advised and ask them to cancel the debt. Hope this helps, and good luck

oh that was fun. RMA just rang me. obviously realised they missed a chance last night had a bit of fun with security "but you rang me!" only partial answers to the questions until she got narked and then answered her questions. then: Her: I'm calling about a personal matter with MBNA Me: Right Her: It's about the outstanding amount Me: There is no outstanding amount Her: Have you made a payment to us Me: No Her: Have you cleared the outstanding amount with MBNA Me: I have made an arrangement in F&F settlement with MBNA Her: OK, Sorry to have wasted your time this morning Me: (i just had to get it in again) Well, to be honest, you wasted my time all day yesterday as well Her: How did we do that? Me: Well, I get a card through the door saying you will be calling, so I wait in all day. Tell me, who do I send the invoice to for my lost time??? Her: to give her credit, she didnt miss a beat here. obv used to dealing with FB)MBNA, they are the ones that instructed us to send the letters out, so you would have to claim from them Me: Ok, thank you ByeBye *click* ahhh, the sweet sound of a DCA with its teeth yanked without anasthetic, go lick yer wounds RMA and never darken my telephones again

well, the network should have blocked the sim and imei if you have reported it lost / stolen. you could ask them to send you a replacement sim, and put it in an old phone. im afraid i dont think you have grounds to not pay, esp if your contract has just been renewed.

technically, if their systems are waiting for a sim-swap, then as far as they know, the contract phone is active. if you had flat out declined the sim (hard to do i know they can be persuasive) then it would have been closed down. PAYG sims DO have to be registered, and so TECHNICALLY they can claim you are liable for the amount. however, as it would appear you were advised incorrectly of the procedure for the sim swap, then they should concede this and cancel the outstanding amount.

chances are the person who processed the cancellation did not update the systems correctly. You say they have now cancelled the contract, have they credited the 72 that they said you owed

why thank you fb, it is appreciated i am gradually getting things sorted with short settlements (and generous parents, who are lending me the money till my mortgage comes through) teasing the dca's just passes the time

mick, credits / debits are not processed manually. with the amount of people holding bank accounts, and the amount of credits being sent out by DWP et al every day / week, can you imagine the manpower that would be needed to cover that!!! here is how the systems work: The DWP computer systems generate, for want of a better phrase, a spreadsheet. this "spreadsheet" contains at least the following information: Name sort code ac number amount reference there are prob more fields, but I am keeping this at an overview level. so, the file would look like: Mr J Bloggs, 10-00-00,12345678,112.58,Payment Refernce and so on and so forth. now, the DWP computer system has to assign a reference to the payment, so that THEY can link the payments, and so that you know who it is from. In employment, your reference will be your payroll number. for example, my main job, my salary is credited with the reference consisting of my company name and my payroll number. I also recieve a credit from HMG / MOD. this reference appears as HMG XXXXXX (the 'x's are my ID number) the ONLY identifiable number that the DWP work from the the NI number, and so, THEIR systems use this as the reference against all payments. when my ex partner got her benefits into her bank account, that also came up with her NI number. you say your wifes account doesnt. is that a passbook account?? if so, that will prob just say Credit / Standing Order / BACS. the reason for this is, payments into a building society have to be cleared through a mainstram bank account, so the DWP have to use her passbook account number as a reference, otherwise the payment would not reach her. At work I deal with BACS systems, when we send payment, we send it with our customers Account number as the reference. this makes it easy for us to trace payments etc.

well, not cheeky so much as leaving them speechless having refused to answer any of RMA's DPAQ questions when they ring, I got the infamous "We will be calling" postcard. rang em up (I was bored) and when the drone answered, said "Can I speak to someone to make a complaint about your company wasting my time please" little stutter, she asked for my ref no (which I gave) and put me on hold got put through to an "operations manager" who sounded quite polite explained (well, lied) that I had had this card, and had waited in ALL day expecting their representative. he explained that the card means they will be TELEPHONING (like I didnt know). Well, it isn't worded very well, as if you meant Telephoning, then surely you should state that. in fact it is almost like you are trying to decieve people!" cue another stutter, and me pressing on "I think it may be advantageous for your company to look at rewording your card to avoid confusion, dont you?" Reply: "Y-y-yes sir" Me: "Ok, thank you, goodbye" they didnt even seem to think to ask me about the debt that they are supposedly chasing. I was hoping they would, as it got settled with the OC today with £1k knocked off the total yay!

come on, admit it, your jealous aint ya!! £376 refunded without a single letter being written

**UPDATE** Been into branch today, and got a further £52 refunded. so only £16 down which I was more than happy to not claim for as it was my mistake

Has anyone else been charged by NPower for visits that never happened?? I have lines on my gas bill called D I Visit. however, noone from NPower has ever (to my knowledge) visited.

But if he knew he was overdrawn, despite not thinking he was able too, why did he draw the money out. I agree, ask about reclaiming the charges, being very polite, claiming a mistake etc, and hope you catch a CS rep on a good day, but in reality, they could well turn round and say no. personally, i think working on the assumption "Well I have been charged, so I may as well get some more" is a bit foolish. sorry if i sound antagonistic

well thats alright then, otherwise, i was gonna have to send him a "Your Account Details need confirming" email

plus, while the funds arrive at the bank, the companies systems may not register it immediatly. eg, you pay a bill, in cash, at the billers bank. it can take up to 10 days for their systems to register the payment!

yourbank, sorry, was the whole of your post aimed at me or just the first line i am assuming just the first line

right, so he knew he was overdrawn, and didnt have the funds available in the account, he then (knowing he had no available funds) withdrew a further £60. what exactly was he trying to do?? If he had withdrew 60 in one, then there would be one charge, but he did it on 3 seperate days, IIRC correctly, there is one referral fee per day. But i still dont get why he drew funds out of anaccount he knew had no money in and was already overdrawn. bit silly if you ask me

**Addition** Many banks are currently looking at token based, or two tier authentication. this is where you recieve a small "fob" which has a constantly changing code. this code relates to a server code and without these two numbers matching, no matter if the details are correct, people are not getting in. HSBC currently do this on business accounts, and I believe all banks will be looking at the costs involved on rolling this out to Personal Banking customers.

Who should not bother replying mick? when you get a printed receipt, the full card number is not displayed, this is a security measure to prevent someone getting your card number and making CNP transactions. BACS references are plain text fields, and Halifax have no idea as to the information in them and what relevance they have to you. Also, payments be Debit / Credit cards ARE NOT BACS transactions, they are two seperate systems so, what do you think should happen?? on your statement you get the following: Date Detail Amount 12/2 XXXXXX 121.65 13/2 XXXXXX -5.99 14/2 XXXXXX 9.99 how is that going to help you keep track of your finances? if you have an issue with your NI number being used as a transaction reference, then speak to the DWP. Can other more learned forumites confirm that if Halifax were to alter any transaction information then this could be classed as fraud??

Mick, as an IT specialist (albeit not in banking) let me advise you of the following: the spam emails you received were not targeted at you specifically. I personally recieve some 40 of these per day, many for banks that I do not and have not banked with. what has happened, is you have entered your details (specifically your email address) on an insecure website that has then been "harvested" by a spammer. They then send out blanket emails to some 2000/3000 people at a time. this happens with banks, paypal, ebay, amazon, you name it. You can help protect yourself by using better personal security measures. for example, instead of using your name as a login, use your name and some random numbers. for your password, something as simple as letter substitution, and capitalisation can prevent hackers from simply guessing your password. for example, password would become: P4$$W0rd immediatley much harder to guess. but moving on from this issue, and onto what was listed in your recent transactions, Halifax cannot change the reference lines of any transaction, as that could be classed as Fraud. When the DWP sent out your payment, THEY (not halifax) specify that the reference for the transaction is XX then your NI number. this is so that they can trace payments in their systems, and you know that this is your pension. It is exactly like when you set up a standing order to another account, or do a transfer, you are asked for a reference. this reference is what you use to describe the payment, "credit card bill", "payment to church for hall hire" etc etc etc. Why are you slating them for presenting accurate information??? I bank with Halifax, and yes, they have many faults, but you cannot and should not slate them for providing accurate information on what they (rightly) assume is YOUR computer screen, and on statements sent to your address. sorry for the rant folks.

Hmmm, interesting. I will have a look at our software when I return from Annual Leave, and see if I can try to scan a couple of these. (when the normal user is away from her desk!!) I will let you know

Once you take out your contract, you have to stay on that tarriff for a minimum of half the contract length. however, if you want to move to a more expensive tarriff, you can do that whenever you like. once you have passed that halfway mark, you can move down one tarriff banding at a time per month. the reason they stop you from moving to cheaper tarriffs, is: people where taking out expensive tarriffs to get free expensive phones. once the first month had passed, they would then reduce the tarriff right down to the minumum, and sometimes stop using the contract completely. this meant that Orange were loosing money, as they do subsidide most of the cost of the phone.

my apologies saint, didnt realise it was against the rules. its just unusual for me to feel like i can actually help

have you raised the fact that you were mis-sold the tarriff with orange at all?

just the companies details shold be fine. casting your mind back, was the company called blue bamboo? like i say, if you pm me your mob no or postcode, i can check our systems