Nope... just checked when I phone to activate: no PPI....

PPI? So you think they might have signed me up to pay an insurance fee? Can't see anything in the docs to say that - and certainly nothing was said to that effect - but we'll see, I guess. I do see there's a 'dormancy fee' of £10 every six months... - As I said - there's an advantage in Consumer Protection over my Debit Card, but if it turns out that they're [causing problems] me I'll cancel it.

Well, it's certainly surprising, bizarre even. I can't even see what's in it for them, really. Nethertheless, I hope it will come in handy if there's a largish purchase from a company that goes bust without delivering, or similar. Have to say, though, that I wouldn't have bothered had they not offered.

Just coming back with an update... I was in a supermarket in-store branch today [yes there's been a credit crunch since my original post] to put a cheque in, no other customers around, time on my hands... got offered the guaranteed credit card again... so I went for it. I said I wasn't working. The lad said that if I'd been offered the card, that had already been taken into account. He got me to just sign the little form twice, they had all my details on file... and when I came back from shopping, gave me the letter accepting my application for a credit card, up to £2500. Complete madness... But, there you go. .

Will do. I wonder if this is one of those situations - ie the consumer protection - where the 'poor' are disadvantaged yet again. Poor? Hey, just realized... that's me... damn! - SJ: Money gives a buzz, just like any other drug. Keep yourself safe and housed, and attempt to be sensible, but do not beat yourself up about past mistakes... Remember the old adage: if you owe the bank ten quid they are mean to you, if you owe them ten million quid they are very, very nice to you. Take care.

While in the Abbey branch the other day I was offered a "guaranteed" credit card... all I had to do was go to the front desk, apply, and I'd get one... I'm not employed, but have never been in any financial difficulty, no debts, and no credit cards. It would be very useful for to use a credit card solely for the consumer protection it affords - I'd be paying off any payment due imediately. Any chance I'll actually get that guaranteed CC?? Thanks!

From my recent experience with Orange, and that of friends with TalkTalk and Toucan, I'd say that it seems to be the duty of every ISP to screw you up. BUT it is worth considering that whoever is your ISP, British Telecom are more than likely to own and operate the copper wires going to your house. (There are exceptions in some areas - good.) So, if the wires are bad... being with ToucTalk or whatever still means BT fixing them... This time, though, you're trying to persuade your new ISP to persuade BT... Good luck! My advice would be to keep a good diary of your problems, play their stupid game with the help lines and keep going up the complaints escalation to the CEO - stiff letters with a list of the problems and dates - until you get a working service THEN claim some cash back from them - a refund of all your fees so far for a not-fit-for-purpose service to start with.

..

Thanks to all of you once more. Current update is that I wrote to the CEO again to inform him of the forthcoming case and give Orange a final chance to settle. His 'office' telephoned me... and offered a payment and an unequivocal apology. I accepted them. So, presuming the cheque arrives... I won't have to dig my suit out. Which I'm a bit disappointed by, in a sense... but very pleased to get an apology. (Any one know how I stop the case now...) I had written to the CEO previously, but it was during a changeover of CEOs. Otherwise, maybe it would have been sorted sooner. Maybe they needed to know I was serious. However, it does prove that if you kick off hard, and not let a company walk over you, then results are possible. N [ps should this be in the broadband section?]

Thanks again. Orange paid the money directly into my bank (in the same way that they took money out) does that count as my acceptance? Should I have posted it back to them..? N

Thanks - I like the potential headline: "Cowboy ISP shoots self in foot." They have been truly incompetent at every stage so far - I hope they have shot themselves in the foot here too. The amount I asked for was small, but accurate: I was a bit surprised that they decided not to pay me as I had threatened legal action if they did not; and more surprised they decided to defend the matter. I like to think they've spent £200 on lawyers already... N

Thanks all of you... I thought that was reasonable too ... but am also in need of knowing what a court might think. Orange did - eventually - pay me £50 which approximated the absolute minimum refund of what they had taken from me, plus calls to the 0870 line: though they called it a 'goodwill payment', not a refund. The £50 was just paid into my account long after I demanded the £200 - I wrote and thanked them for the first installment of the money I was owed and demanded the rest - and it's that, I guess, that will be argued about at a hearing. Buzby - you mention "service contract": is this the area of law concerned here? The court documents suggests making every effort to settle out of court - is it in my interest at this point to write once more to the CEO or their legal office and offer them the opportunity to settle before hand? Any other thoughts / ammunition still welcome. Thanks N

Oh I think it's a rip off... they are the same company, and the pairing is very expensive. On the other hand the coverage, and the number of potential customers, is huge - way more than was possible before eBay. I think eBay claim that it is is a free service to buyers... so you're not allowed to pass the PayPal charge on... but almost everyone does, via increased postage costs - and I think that is fair both as a sometime seller and as a customer... Your fault was to state it openly. Next time... silence

Any of these kind of callers just get my standard reply, which is: "I'll go and get him..." Phone off hook, wait a carefully judged period... "Hello, are you still there? He's just coming..." Phone off hook... ... ... get on with what I was doing. --- Maybe it's my karma then that the Orange 'helpline' gave me the run around for three months...

Can anyone offer advice on a way round the non-liability clause in the Orange broadband contract in my forthcoming case: The story (v briefly) is that I was bounced off dial-up onto broadband when Orange closed the dial-up service, and then I moved house... Three months later and A LOT of mucking me around, they had not reconnected me at the new address and I cancelled the contract. In that time, I had to pay out the for continuing to get emails via another pay-for dial-up and, in the end, I factored-in the call charges, the monthly charges, the extra expenses, my time spent on the matter, and the fact that I was very annoyed... and claimed about £200 pounds from them. They refunded me £50. So it's going to the Small Claims Court. Orange's defence basically comes down to their clause - "We shall not be liable to you; for any loss or damage arising out of any loss of data or for any other loss or damage which is indirect and not reasonably foreseeable by us;" I had a couple of thoughts so far - 1) it would be reasonably foreseeable that if they weren't providing me with a service I'd have to get it elsewhere and, given that they blocked access for other providers, it would be expensive. 2) they bounced me off a working service 3) what is the value of an 'agreement' - I didn't sign anything, and the service wasn't working, so I wasn't using it (and not agreeing by using the service?) Please, are there any thoughts on this matter?? It will be my first time in court and I'm thinking it will be an interesting experience... but I'd like to win against these cowboys too! N By the way, the next company I approached for broadband connected me within eight days.