Hi 42 Thanks for that I am kinda getting my head around this, but I felt I had to admit to holding the account with hsbc in my statement of truth because it was being paid through cccs before cl finance became involved and thus they could easily prove this, which is why I think I have to build the case around the fact that in their haste to bring a claim against me and their unwillingness to accept reduced payments, they have shot themselves in the foot and the fact that the debt exists is now immaterial as per the Wilson case. This is only for the worst case scenario whereby they produce the docs in court and the judge allows it. With regards to the default none produced even though on their poc they claimed to have sent a DN. The Woodchester case can highlight the importance of the DN but does allow for minor discrepancies on the amount so there is a chance that the judge could favour this and allow it to be used. They haven't supplied enough statements to confirm all the penalty charges as well as any default charges that may have been applied so I might have millage there if it comes to it. Any thoughts about arguing the validity of the assignment? As only had sight of it in the package that was disclosed to me. Law of property act can be used I guess but I feel I am on shaky ground going down this route as they have disclosed a copy.

Okay so due in court on thursday, H/Cohen have still not disclosed any copies of the credit agreement or default notice even though I have again requested this in writing. (the request copied to the court) I am just trying to get my head around this, my main point is that not that the account or money owed doesn't exist but that in their haste to commence proceedings they have ultimately bought a flawed and unprepared claim. In so doing they come unstuck and their claim as stands should fail, however I have to account for the fact that they may produce these doc's on the day and the judge gives me 20 mins. to go over them. Thus the reason in this scenario I think I need to prove that the claim shouldn't have been commenced in the first place rather than argue against the agreement, unless it obviously improperly executed, so I am struggling to get my head around the case law especially regarding the default notice and its importance. There are penalty charges on this account so any default issued should be invalid is this true? The Notice of Assignment was supplied as a copy with their statement of truth so I am expecting the judge to say that I have a copy now so move on, but if the debt was assigned which included charges etc which in turn invalidates the default then surely the assignment was incorrect. Am I correct in assuming this? Any case law to use? Would the inaccurate default notice stop them progressing even if the included penalty charges may be minimal?

I think that H. Cohen might not be as daft as we think as they are the only ones who are making any money from this. Probably just going through the motions to show cl finance that they are worth their fees. However dealing with them does seem to make our lives a little easier . Just hope they will show their incompetence next week when I see them in court regards their other claim against me.

Hi We are pretty much in the same boat with regards to the goldfish agreements sent. Mine are pretty much identical to yours except when I complained they sent another agreement with different details, so I am lucky enough to hold 2 different cca's for the same account . Just awaiting for their final response before I take it further. Just another point to look at and may be worth arguing is their charges as stipulated in the agreement they sent you, as you applied in 1998 (me 1995), they must have been psychic to preempt any OFT recommendations and include them in our agreements . Here is a link to my thread there are copies of the documents to look at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/136292-goldfish-lovely-cabot.html Good luck.

Hi, So Howard Cohen have just sent me a without prejudice letter for an offer of settlement on this account, managed to add an extra £300 or so onto the amount originally claimed against me. My question is can they just keep adding interest to this amount even though it was struck out?

Thanks libm the case was struck out as they failed to comply with the court orders, they ignored the first order then were given a second order which again was ignored. I haven't seen your thread but I had to write to the court several times outlining their non-complience before it was finally struck out so probably worth a shot. Good luck keep me posted. With regards to a strike out as far as I am aware they can't reissue a claim based on the same facts as the case which has been struck out without the permission of the court. However I don't doubt that they might be able to assign the debt to some other pond life who might just try it on and so the circle goes on.

Hi Paul any chance of that letter:)

Thanks for your reply pmhcfc. I agree the documents are dodgy to say the least but that aside there is something more to this, as it just reeks with deception. If anyone can help with a response as well as advising on a complaint to the OFT etc, it will be much appreciated.

Do you think it is wise to include a copy of a letter in the disclosure list which I sent before they instigated the claim, in which I offered token payments as I was signed off work due to the closure of my business and the mental health issues caused by this? I know the letter was received because they cashed the cheque that was included! Just trying to cover all bases.

Hi Just wondering if anyone could comment on the cca's supplied as well as goldfishes response. It just seems that they might have crossed a line here by generating 2 different agreements for the same account. I appreciate that the doc's supplied look unenforceable but I think that goldfish producing documents willy nilly and trying to pass them off is very concerning.

Thanks Boss-man, I agree with you 100% and the case law will stuff them if they can't produce the document, however at this stage I need to make sure all the details are correct. As who knows what sort of judge will hear this and to have my defence struck out because of CL/HC's games would just be so unbelievably c$%p. I am so glad I found this site and didn't take CCCS advice, which was admit the debt take along an income and expenditure sheet the judge wouldn't order you to pay anymore than you could afford but you probably will end up with a CO. Just what CL/HC want and would have got without even having to answer to anybody. Grrrr:mad:

Hi I was wondering if this reply to their statement of truth is along the right lines: Are the cases correct and should I be looking at including the properties act in relation to the notice of assignment? If so could someone point me in the direction of that one. Do I need to request that this claim is struck out? No default notice and no CCA? Here is the link to their statement of truth:http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p392/cagkitchen/hcstatementoftruthcopy.jpg Having another look at their statement it does seem to me that they are trying to get a summary judgment. Am I correct in believing this?

Hi, I am a bit stuck as to how to proceed now, I appreciate that they might have shot themselves in the foot a bit by not supplying much, but I need to file and serve my disclosure documents and get my trial bundle in order as I don't want to risk anything I might be relying on to being struck out. I am concerned that in their statement of truth (post 1 above) they have said they have complied with my cca request yet I have received nothing, how do I respond to this? However should I consider applying to have the case struck out? As I haven't received a DN, neither have they supplied a copy or referred to it in their statement of truth. The only time they make mention of a default notice is in their POC. Will be grateful for any advice.

Well done Ginnever.

Thanks 42, however they are stating that a cca was sent. Is the onus of proof still on them? As it is my word against theirs and they have signed a statement of truth? Their POC also states that a default notice was issued, as they have had the debt assigned to them would they need to have issued the default notice themselves? Thus would any default issued by HSBC the original creditor be invalid? Without their compliance with a SAR request I have no idea if one has been issued by HSBC or themselves. Am I right in my understanding of the act in that a compliant default notice has to have been issued before legal action could have started? So even if they do produce a CCA, without a copy of the default notice and proof of service are they then well & truly stuffed?

I just wanted to say thank you all for your advice and support. Its given me strength to continue to fight them with their 2nd claim. Am I entitled to costs? Hope so it means a donation to cag

Well finally managed to invest in a scanner so I have uploaded the documents from goldfish. The first CCA is in response to my CCA request, the second one sent is as a reply to my complaint to goldfish also I have uploaded a copy of the letter sent along with the 2nd cca. In case it is not clear the apr on cca2 is 21.9% and cca1 0%. Not only are cca's laughable they are clearly generated templates using inconsistent data. Any suggestions as to how to reply to their letter as well as taking this further. http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p392/cagkitchen/goldfishcca1.jpg http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p392/cagkitchen/goldfishcca2.jpg goldfish reply.doc

Being fighting these guys for months, 2 claims instigated at the same time, the first claim has just been struck out due to their non compliance of the court orders, Thanks to all the advice and support on this forum. Thought it would be best to separate the ongoing case against them from my original thread as a court date has been set for the 14 August. All the history regarding this claim can be found on the original thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/131823-cohens-cl-finance-claims.html I need to file documents by the 17 July, I can't really amend my defence that much as the only documents I have received from them is a copy of the NOA and bank statements from Nov 05 to Oct 06. According to their statement of truth (link below) the account was opened in Nov 02, so just few years missing then. They also state that they complied with my CCA request sent in February on 1 April 08, yet no documentation apart from what has been listed has ever arrived. They also refused to send information under a CPR request and haven't yet complied with my SAR request sent in feb. Any advice as to what to do next will be greatly appreciated. Especially with regards to the preparation of a witness statement. (hope the uploaded docs work) http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p392/cagkitchen/noticeofallocation1copy-1.jpg http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p392/cagkitchen/noticeofallocation2.jpg http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p392/cagkitchen/hcstatementoftruthcopy.jpg http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p392/cagkitchen/classignmentnovember07copy.jpg http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p392/cagkitchen/claimform1-1.jpg

Hi Well, first claim has been struck out!. So 1 to go.

Hi I am battling against this lot as well, they sent same reply to my cpr request and have ignored 2 court orders to disclose information. Have a read through my thread as I have been given some great advice. Hope it's helpful. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/131823-cohens-cl-finance-claims.html Good luck

Okay a little confused now, just received a copy of the assignment from HC letter dated 24/06 this is the only bit of paperwork received regarding the disclosure orders. Still 3 weeks in default though. It is only a copy of the letter with no proof of service provided which again was required on the order. Is it worth worrying about this now?

Hi It looks like both moorcroft and freddie have jumped ship. I guess the recycling bin is going to be a bit emptier. Should I hang on with a SAR request at the moment and wait to see what egg do next? Will try to get a copy of the CCA sent earlier scanned as soon as I can get hold of a scanner. Tried taking a copy with a digital camera without much luck.

Hi Just a quick update and summary, CL have filed 2 claims against me with the 1st one the directions worked and the Judged ordered them to supply the info needed within 14 days of the 9th April, this was ignored and after I wrote to the court they were given another unless order to comply with by the 30 May, which again has been ignored as I have yet to receive any info, I have written to the court again, surely this claim should be struck out now? With the second claim they failed to file their AQ on time and were given another unless order to do so otherwise the claim will be struck out, so today I have received an allocation to a small track hearing on the 14 August. 2hrs allocated and there is a hearing fee of £300 to be paid by the claimant, is this fee normal? Just a few questions about the hearing; *The directions supplied with my AQ seemed to have been ignored, do I need to bring this to the attention of the court as I don't have any paperwork? *The court has stated that I need to supply documents to the other party, they have my defence anything else I need to supply? *I have been suffering from mental health issues, do I need to supply any info from my consultant or add it to my defence? *There is also no way I could amend my defence without any info so what should I do now? I did however receive a claimant's disclosure statement and affidavit of evidence from Howard Cohen (form n265) relating to the 2nd claim number not to the claim for which they have been ordered to disclose info. I think they have mixed the 2 claims up! Anyway they haven't supplied any info with this form and all it states is that: "I have control of the documents numbered and listed here. I do not object to you inspecting them/producing copies. 1)copy letters between the claimant and defendant 2)copy of monthly statements of the account 3)copy of the NOA referred to in the particulars of claim" So no mention of default notices, CCA, deed of assignment or proof of service. Does this disclosure have any relevance as it only relates to the case number of the claim to be heard and it also doesn't comply with the orders given as it is incomplete? Any advice? Many thanks.

Hi Thanks for that odc & babybear, I kinda thought that I messed it up a bit, anyway there are charges to claim on this account and I need to check if egg have been applying PPI to the account as it is something that I have heard that they do. They seem to have some sort of opt out that if you don't click they automatically add the PPI to the account. Anyone successfully claimed against them should this be true?

An update on this, have received a reply from moorcroft regarding the sar request. They have supplied some information but only it seems what they hold on their systems, no statements, copies of any letters etc. As they are acting for egg do they need to send all this information or do I have to get onto egg? At least the account in dispute letter worked with Freddie and they are off my back.