Probably best to wait for an expert but I will say that they have only added it back on for information to show the total "cash price for the goods" (i.e the car) of £4,600! Bobbyh

I would say they aren't adding it back in! But like I said I am no expert!!

crk81 Cost of car £4,600 Less deposit of £500 Equals £4,100. If you add on the £195 acceptance fee it makes it £4,295. This is the amount of credit. You pay £146.75 per month over 48 months = £7,044. At the end of the 4 years you will have paid: £7,044 plus £500 deposit. Total £7,544. If you use the "option" it will cost you £100 extra in the final payment.

Break the agreement down. £1,347.29 @ 42.58% = £79.56 per month. £75.00 @ 42.58% = £4.43 per month Total £83.99 per month. It looks to me like they are trying to say you pay less interest by including the acceptance fee in the credit. When in fact you pay exactly the same overall (£2,105). Sometimes WF provide something called "A statement of Price" this will tell you all you need to know. It breaks down the monthly amounts for you. If you have one of these then you will see that next to Acceptance Fee it says £4.43. Well if you multiply this amount by 24 you get £106.32. This clearly is applying interest on the acceptance fee of £75 otherwise you would only pay £3.125 per month on the acceptance fee (£75 / 24). Bobbyh

Loan & APR Calculator The Wife - I have an almost identical loan agreement to that on your thread. Yours is £1,347.29 @ 51.20% APR (actually 51.26%) = £2,015.44 Total to pay - This includes interest of £668.15. (give or take a few pennies) Or Yours is £1,422.29 @ 42.60% APR (actually 42.58%) = £2,015.63 Total to pay - This includes interest of £593.34. (give or take a few pennies) The £1,347.29 excludes the Acceptance Fee and the £1,422.29 includes the Acceptance Fee. Now I do not know whether what they done is correct but using the amounts quoted above work out to £83.98 per month for 24 months. It looks like to me that these are designed to confuse and make it look like that they are not charging interest on the acceptance fee. BobbyH

I am no expert but the nominal rates are used in most loans. Is is the actual interest rate without any adjustments like inflationary etc. This is the rate they use to calculate your monthly payment!

Lets not forget a number of Directors were also suspended!!

The credit is: 4,100 + 195 (Acceptance Fee) = 4,295 The interest rate they show is the compounded APR. The nominal rate is 30.32%. The 2,748 is total amount of interest you pay on the loan. 4,600 -500 4,100 +195 4,295 30.32% APR over 4 years £146.75 per month £7,044 +£500 +£100 £7,644 (cost of the car over 4 years)

Try this calculator. It also calculates the compounded APR from the nominal Loan & APR Calculator If you put 40.4 in the nominal rate box and compound monthly you get 48.79%. Then in the top if you put £7195, 48.79% and 4 years the monthly amount is the same as the FSA one £304.34. However, if you put 40.4% in the top section the monthly amount comes out at £277.87, which is the WF amount. BobbyH

can you post up a copy of the agreement (minus personal stuff)? How much was the Option Fee/Acceptance fee? BobbyH

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OK I thought I would just add something as I have just read andie_303 PPI thread re.WF. When I spoke to Direct Group about these policies, she said that they would forward me all the policy documents they have on the 3 policies mentioned in post 17. This implies they do hold these documents which I think I read in Andie_303's thread they said they did not. Fortunately, I have a number of documents from WF (Policy Schedules) which have a policy number on them beginning with "WMC" followed by 7 numbers. I quoted this policy number to DG and she found the policies straight away. Also, it would appear that when you take a loan with WF and they lump on the insurances, you then ask WF to borrow more money and they refinance the original loan with a new loan and add more insurances, the "WMC" policy number remains the same except for a "/1" at the end. The lady at DG said these are still the same policy just additions to the main policy. She also did say that you need to contact WF for any statement of needs documents as they don't hold copies of them! On a separate point, although still WF, I have found some correspondence (actually a letter) from myself to WF stating that I did not want the PPI insurance on the Secured Loan I had in 2001 and requesting them to re-jig the credit agreement minus the PPI! BobbyH P.S. can someone move this thread to the WF section?

OK phoned Direct Group and they are sending me policy documents for 3 policies they have on their system. Welcome Lifecare 24 - Term Life - £17,000 - 60 month term - expires in March 2010 Welcome PPI (Unsec) (05) - PPI - 24 month term Medicare 1 Unit (05) - Personal Accident - 36 month term BobbyH

I have just been reading the March 05 loan documents again, and one of the insurance policies is "Lifecare24". This is a 5 year Term Life policy with a benefit of £17,000. I have just phoned Direct Group and this policy is still inforce (surprised!) and expires in March 2010. The Loan was for £750 over 2 years, the policy which WF sold me was for £17,000 over 5 years!! Is it possible to mis-sell a life insurance with a lump sum benefit on death?? BobbyH

I am a little confused now. Please confirm the following: 1-You took out a £2000 loan 2-Over 36 months 3-£116 per month to pay (x36) 4-Total to pay on loan £4,176 Had you paid the monthly amount of £116 for 36 months, you would have cleared the loan. You would have paid £4,176 back to WF. This means you have paid £2,176 in interest and £2,000 capital. Example of loan: Month1 - £115 interest - £1 capital Month2 - £112 interest - £4 capital Month34 - £4 Interest - £112 capital Month36 - £1 Interest - £115 capital Total Interest £2,176 - Total Capital £2,000 Interest is calculated at the rate of interest on the daily balance outstanding of the total amount of credit. At some point during the loan term you stopped paying the loan, this mean that interest is added to you loan monthly (calculated daily) plus all the other stuff they add on like arrears charges, telephone call charges etc etc. without having any amount paid against the account (i.e. your monthly instalment). So the balance of the account will increase. These interest payments are not a penalty (although 73% APR is very high!) and can't be claimed back as far as I am aware. I hope this makes things a little clearer! BobbyH

So basically like any fixed rate loan! Like I said before at the beginning of the loan the £116 paid for mostly the interest and a small portion of the capital. Further down the 36 months line it pays less interest and more capital and when it reaches the end of the 36 months the balance is nil. By looking at a statement it shows you the balance of the account, what it doesn't show is any rebate on the interest that would be applied should you wish pay off the loan in full! In order to calculate the rebate, you would need to know exactly how much you have paid against the account, isn't this shown on the statement?

Do you have a copy of the credit agreement with the figures that you can post up (minus personal details)? A £2000 loan over 36 months @ £116 per month makes interest at approximately 73% APR! I am not entirely sure what you mean by "all interest front loaded". Are you saying the interest rate was fixed for 36 months? BobbyH

Whilst it might be to the annoyance of your mortgage company, why don't you rent the property out without telling them!

Almost all of your payment is paying the interest at the beginning of a loan!! It only really starts to pay the capital further into the loan term! How much is the loan for? What is the interest rate? When did you take the loan out? BobbyH

Morethan are part of RSA and part of their privacy policy states that they will search credit reference agencies!

postggj The December 05 loan was a re-write of the March 05 loan. They have all been settled early and all appear to have acceptance fees etc. All 3 agreements are attached, including the Insurances where I have them. What I am trying to check is whether the settlements were the correct amounts as experience with another lender tells me this wasn't the case! Thanks BobbyH March05-Unsecured1.pdf December05-Unsecured.pdf November01-Secured.pdf

Nov 01 - Secured loan Mar 05 - Unsecured loan Dec 05 - Unsecured loan Thanks

I have been reading some threads whereby interest is being applied to Acceptance Fees and the like? Can anyone confirm that this practice shouldn't happen? and perhaps point me in the direction of where it says this shouldn't happen? Thanks Bobbyh

Insurance Comparison sites do generate these searches on your credit file!