yes. i do not want to waste time going into the ins and out of business tax and VAT. as it is going off the main point. but there are also reasons why at the financial year having a VAT summary can be beneficial to businesses. ill explain real quick, a yearly summary can help.. lets say a few years down the line they want to look back on your VAT records, the products you buy and the products you sell, etc. having a summary can save time rather then handing them hundreds of individual invoices. again shows your lack of understanding and lack of questioning. you simply presume too much. i never said anything about VAT returns. i was talking about having proof for the future. let me guess you believe that after the VAT returns have been processed you can bin/shred the paperwork. afraid not you are suppose to keep records for 5 years+ ever ask yourself why?? its just incase they need to look back. i keep all invoices in a fireproof room and digital scans saved in a different location. ontop of that i keep yearly summaries in duplicate closer to hand. one because its easier to look through and also they dont take up as much space as the individual invoices so i can easily file them in arms length of my office. no comments about the fireproof room!! i know what your imaginations are like. yes paper does burn so there is no such thing as a fully fireproof room where paper is involved. no i do not have fireproof paper. i simply have a metal lined room (like a safe) and all the records are locked in metal boxes. so if anyone dropped a cigarette or poured petrol in the room the only way to burn the invoices is to have the metal box open. i do not smoke or intend to pour petrol in the room. and i am the only holder of the keys so my employees cant unlock the boxes to burn the invoices.

being polite but firm is always good advice. but the store staff are trained to not accept or deal with any issues over a year old. by law they cannot do this but they just do what there employer are told. i do not think this is writen training or a writen policy just what they get told by managers. i would not simply ask them firmly to deal with it. use the right words. ask them about their own oasis system's remedy about what is the remedy under the title faulty. ask them to either follow it or give you the information such as the engineers contact details or the details for their own customer services/complaints department. there policies are not right but its all they know so the only way to get a right result is to either threaten law action which they could class as abuse if you use anger. which will result in you getting banned. or by playing their game and finding out who can deal with it. no one wants to go to court to get action so asking questions to the staff instead of demanding, can help avoid court cases and arguments instore. their oasis system is what the staff know and follow. it falls within soga guidelines so to the staff its all they care about. the staff are not personally legally accountable to deny you a remedy. they dont want stress, they are not paid enough to deal with stressful customers so be polite and simply ask about their OASIS remedy solution and ask them if they can follow it. SOGA is your legal right but to get a positive result usually means going to court to get a judge to assess and demand a remedy. some retail staff dont care about consumers rights. just about avoiding stress from customers, by asking them to leave if they raise their voice and avoid stress from their management by causing hassle. so dont cause hassle and arguments. be polite. dont demand a replacement or refund. ask them what their remedy solution is. in the past consumers from other forums have tried saying "i will not leave until my product is replaced" again that is not a positive way of saying it. because you are demanding something which the staff are untrained to do. in one case from another forum the consumer was left instore for an hour or so until the store had closed and the staff then said "if you dont leave then we will call the cops", the retailer called the customers bluff and the customer left. laptops are suppose to last a reasonable time but a hinge is hard to prove if it failed due to mis-use or by manufacturing process. lifting a laptop lid from a single side rather then lifing from the centre or from both sides can cause the hinges to twist and eventually break. this is considered as miss-use if you personally made it twist to break. from my experiences of pcworld from the questions i have asked them i beleive that getting an independant engineers report and contacting their head office may be faster. but if the stores own oasis system has a faster solution then use that. in the end you may have to threaten court action to get a result as hinges are a grey area. but being abusive instore will get you no-where so definetly be polite.

gyzmo- advice for you in the future. you may wish to ask the OP what the exact wording himself and the store staff was before presuming there was a breach in sales by description. if the consumer asked what slot does my pc have and the staff said AGP then this is not enough information to say there was a breach. if the consumer asked is the power requirements and slot type going to be ok? and the staff said "yes, perfect no problems" then there is a breach. try asking a question before presuming breaches. note about receipts to all consumers. a receipt is not legally required to return a faulty product. as long as you keep some form of proof of purchase such as a receipt number, or a day of purchase or atleast something the seller can use to check their wn records against. if anyone ever gets a retailer to write something on their receipt. simply get a piece of paper. write down the day of purchase and the receipt number or product information and return again saying you lost your receipt. this will avoid arguments and stress. yes hand written statements are invalid legally as they limit consumers rights. but store staff are untrained in consumers rights so they are prepared to argue it if they see a written statement on a receipt. so just dont give them the receipt and they wont know any difference, thus avoiding an argument.

ok this is a forum about consumers rights. this thread is about consumers rights about pcworld. i dont care about helping you understand how to prepare yourself for all that lot, because simply unless you have signed up to the army or actually got accepted to NASA then there is no point. but preparing yourself for actual events that might happen rather then your imaginary scenarios that wont is being helpful. again stick on topic a question was asked about what would happen if pcworld went under. it is a valid question and some consumers would like to know the answer just in case. if you do not want to research and offer advice on this topic then simply dont answer at all. do not insult or use imagination or try changing topic to make yourself look big and ... well i wont continue by insulting you. if you dont know if there are any legal rights after companies go belly up or do not know if the company in question has anything set up to aid consumers if the worsed happened. and you are not willing to find out the answer. then do not answer at all. thank you. well DSGI as a whole only making 4% profit on average and the year 06/07 seeing this profit decline below 4% can be considered a worry. it is a big international company and if they are losing nearly 1% a year in profits. work out how many years until it hits zero. also if the company was a one man band then preparing and researching would not be as important because the amount of consumers would be very little in comparison. again this is a multi-national company which means there is a high number of consumers. so there may be a high number of consumers that want to know if their product they bought this year wil be looked after in 4 years time (if proven faulty from production). dont reply with an insult. if you dont want to find out if pcworld have a backup system inplace to look after consumers or you dont think it is required to investigate because you beleive that there is no risk of DSGI going belly up then do not reply. only reply with a valid answer. anything else is just going to be considered as continuing an argument which by now you will realise i never quit an argument. show your maturity by stopping the argument. only reply to posts with ONTOPIC answers. spelling and grammar is not on topic, it is an insult

ok pat read my original post. i quoted it for you. there are many routes to get a result above shows just one part of my advice. note the OR in it. does this prove that i dont offer single options. stop with the insults. offer advice about the questions and statements in the posts not about how the post is spelt or the grammar used. if you cannot offer proper advice and proof that the posters advice is invalid dont then use insults to make yourself look good. use proof. if you are going to reply saying you do offer proof i would re-think your actions. some posts you do, but from a one sided perspective with only a narrow understanding of your proof. you keep on forgetting that consumers have responsibilities aswell as rights. and sellers have rights as well as responsibilities. i can personally remember offering among yourself and overs a cash reward if you shown that you have visited a pcworld store and atleast read their aftersales advice. i have also asked you to show proof by copying and pasting the paragraph in SOGA that says consumers rights are only limited to the original store/premises of purchase. again you have not shown that. until you do. do not reply to my posts. if you do then you are just trying to cause the arguments to continue. show your intelliagence and maturity by keeping your mouth closed until you can be helpful. and replying with the standard statement that you are being helpful by replying is just again you trying to continue an argument. if you dont like the arguments then you have the power to stop. so stop and only reply when asked a direct question. and reply with only a direct answer. again replying saying i should stop and leave. is just causing arguments because i wont stop. i will continue until other stop with the insults and start offering proper options and advice or if they cant, asking questions to get a better understanding to offer advice. show your maturity if you believe you are so much better then me to have the power to move on and be quiet.

try reading properly. using brain power. english is a diverse and open language. people in different parts of the country speak and write in different ways. for instance, people from manchester use different words then people in cornwall. then of course there is cockney. and other great diverse parts of the english language. how about expanding your knowledge and asking questions so you can understand people instead of being blinkered and hiding in an office and thinking everything is white. not everything is white, it can also be black

ok be lazy gyzmo. shame you are not good at research enough to look for evidence yourself or to look at warning signs. like you said you would rather look for the bombs to take action then to be told they are on their way. if you were in the army and would wait for the bullets to start firing in your direction before hiding and wearing bulletproof vest it will be too late. in life its best to be prepared. maybe when you have sex you dont wear protection, you simply hope for the best and wait till the woman is pregnant before realising it may have been better to be prepared. the only evidence of a company going belly up is when they go belly up. no company would EVER release to the media a statement that says "in 6 months we are going belly up". so do some research, learn something. do not think you know everything. you have to learn things, research. in your posts i have yet to see much proof from your self that you can show evidence apart from copying and pasting SOGA. you show no proof of knowing the whole story, you simply insult people you cant understand rather then asking them genuine questions to fully understand. you will never get far in life, you just rely on others to back you up to make you look good. i do not care about you insulting me. i just care that this website is causing hassle and stress for people where hassle and stress is not required. my original post about what consumers should do when things go wrong will result in a remedy and because they are dealing with trained departments, means it minimises consumers stress and reduces waiting times. yes in a perfect world all products should be swapped over instore for a new product while consumers waits and then the retailer deals with the faulty product themselves later. but this is not the case. the world is not a perfect place. so deal with it and accept it. the advice is to help consumers get a result in the imperfect world. the seller (retailer) has the right to remedy it at the least costly solution to them. so don't think demanding instant swaps on everything is your right. do not think that if everyone boy-cotts or demands it will change the world. it will simply make things cost more to buy. and eventually make businesses go bellyup. hense time/computershop, and such others as shown in the past.

my explanations are simply to prove that you never ask enough questions or research the whole picture. you all simply presume. and when you get it wrong you revert to insults. i am not writing a formal letter or a legal document so i see no reason to have to bother with proper grammar. forums are like text messages and personal comments. formality it not a essential requirement. so instead of insulting my grammar or my advice without knowing all the facts. atleast do something you lot seem to lack. research and ask questions. do not offer advice if you dont know the full picture. this post was originally about consumers options when things go wrong and valid advice about fast solutions too. yes there are other options like demanding staff do their job and then filing a small claims if not. yes there are manufacturers guarantees as well as the retailers own engineers. yes the store could fix it with parts instore. but the advice is proven as a fast and easy, less stressful solution which does fall within soga guidelines and will result in a more prompt remedy. yes there are more then one solution. but following gyzmo's and patdavies advice which is to avoid call centre helplines, avoid calling engineers direct, avoid using guarantees which dont affect consumer rights limits consumers choices and only offers a remedy involving wasted time, queuing and stress. we have all shown proof that dealing with retailers staff can become stressful, the only straight forward remedies are the ones that dont require getting sent away. so why does everyone limit consumers options and choices why not offer more then one option. it is classed as being knowledgable and helpful to offer more then one choice. so do so. or do you just visit this website to create court cases to increase the small claims totalizer??? answer the questions or insult my grammar. but remember insulting someones grammar instead of answering peoples questions just makes yourselves look small and un-intelliagent. be helpful.

just to note. 8,000 million turn over with only 300 million profit. actual figures are 7929 mill with 295 mill profit which works out as 3.72% profit... again 3.72% profit. but thanks for proving that you are great at exadurating the truth, adding 5 million profit to the company and 71 million pounds of sales. WOW. now for the truth!! actuall figures for 06/07 year are 7929 mill with 295 mill profit which works out as 3.72% profit... again 3.72% profit. look at the 05/06 year 6984 mill with 311 mill profit which equals 4.45% a 16% drop between 05/06 and 06/07. think of it as your pay. in 05/06 you earned £445 a week in pay, this year you earn just £372 a year. with another decline next year of the same amount (£313 for 07/08 (prediction only)) would you want to be around for 08/09?? or would you already be looking for another job. DSGI EXPANDING??? hasnt DSGI tried moving into a few european countries and they flopped? italy and france for instance...costing them. nice to see you are reading from the DSGI hymn book but ever tried reading the news rather then word of mouth. its publisized that the share prices have been dropping one because of the vista failure. and the other because of the flops in trying to expand into other countries. yes there are some successful expansions in some countries but failures in others. also with it selling off devisions of the company such as : On March 29, 2007, DSG International Plc sold its personal photography business, Primaphot, part of the FotoVista Group. On April 28, 2007, the Company sold its Genesis Communications (Genesis) business. also its "the link" stores "dixons" stores. if it is such a success why are the news always reporting flops and devision sales? yes DSGI don't just rely on dixons online, currys and pcworld. there is also pixmania and macwarehouse and so many other companies. but read between the lines. read and research some more. maybe my presumptions are eventually going to be proved wrong and DSGI turn around into a huge success. with the new chief executive to join in december he may change everything. but isnt it best to get some facts and learn worsed cased scenarios incase the worse happens so you lot are fully prepared to offer proper valid advice should the need ever arise. and gyzmo. yes lets wait till the worse case scenario happens. lets not bother researching and learning things. lets be lazy and learn nothing and then when all goes wrong for the consumer lets then argue about it. how about be helpful and just research something. learn something. lazyness is no excuse. consumers want advice so i personally would rather research and know both sides of the story and be prepared then to just leave it and argue the point at the last minute. you on the other hand would prefer to leave your faulty product where it wont get fixed ASAP. and leave it there and then argue the point at the last minute. consumers dont want to wait till the worse case happens they want to know advice and support before hand. they want to know options.. let me guess you have no clue what consumers can do if DSGI go belly up. so rather then being helpful now by seeing if there is any trusts or side companies setup. you simply want to wait till it goes belly up and say the words "sorry there is nothing you can do" and try making yourself look good by saying they legally have no options as there is no company to file small claims against. thats not research thats not helpful. thats lazyness

clever you, WOW your intelliagent. shame you still have not asked the question what do i buy in pcworld and what do i sell in my shop. shame you not ask do i stock what i wanted to buy in pcworld. shame you not ask if i had to specially deliver that certain product which i do not normally stock instore, what the delivery time was, delivery cost or anything else. imagine this. maybe if i want something my suppliers have or i have in my shop i do what you already advise. but occassionally like i said in my post there is a item i do not stock and from a different supplier.. again do you honestly think a small shop can sell the variety of products a retail chain like comet, argos or pcworld can. ever thought that i may have needed that said product that day or at the latest the next day and because it was not onhand in my shop. ever thought i may want this product at a weekend when i have weekends off and dont want to go into work. i had two choices. special delivery the product paying extra for delivery(saturday delivery charges), hoping that the royal mail deliver it on time. or buy it from a competitor and save hassle, agro and not have to mess around with paperwork by ordering it to the shop as stock and then create a sale on my day off. shame you only presume you know everything but know only a limited one sided amount. try asking questions before offering advice. many thanks for your advice. shame its not valid in this case. if you asked me some questions you may have given me some valid usable advice. shame

just proves your lack of knowledge people. and when you dont know something.. you insult. get a business degree and then you will understand about tax, to understand why i occassionally visit a pcworld store for purchases instead of ordering direct. dont advise anything if you dont know all the facts. or atleast be willing to learn the facts. quick bit of knowledge about suppliers to help you understand why i occassionally purchase from retailers some suppliers set up accounts for retailers. where they produce VAT receipts and such. at the end of the financial year they give the retailer a VAT summary which the retailer/sole trader can then pass to the taxman which illeviates the pressure of having to pass hundreds of individual vat invoices. yes the taxman can then investigate further and request the individual invoices and if there are any indescrepencies such as personal purchases under the business VAT claims then this can go against the sole trader either by black listing them to require to provide even more indepth proof of purchases in the future financial years. or in the form of a fine for tax fraud. so to avoid the hassle in the increasing amount of paperwork i would have to provide in the future just for the reason of saving a couple of quid. id rather give my money to a competitor then create hassle for myself. again i cant wait to see your next insult where you dont use your brain to learn about what people mean. just insult them because you dont understand. cavemen learnt to respect each other, maybe its your turn to learn a few facts and be able to understand to then be able to respect

sorry to re-iterate but it is not just based on least costly to seller and least inconvenient to buyer but the repair remedy DOES have to meet quality that meets manufacturing processing. yess if they downgrade a part the buyer would not be happy, plus the courts would not be happy as this is deemed as unsatisfactory by law. yes customers would be happy if their 250gb hard drive failed and the company just grabbed another one off of the shelf. but by law it has to be to the same quality. so changing from a top quality hard drive to a brown box unknown hard drive would/could be considered as lesser quality. this is why pc and laptops are not repaired instore techguys external engineers order in parts. the reason i know so much is because i do not just sit at a desk and pretend to know everything because i have read a webpage. i go out and talk to the people involved and i do research. something most people on here lack. i see your own opinions on here but i have seen little to no proof of people saying "i have just contacted consumers direct who said..." yes by law you can demand the store deal with it. But you have to give them reasonable time to deal with it. this means if they can prove they have 50 customers before you with issues then you will have to wait. so yes you can go to the store, but again my advice is for a fast solution for consumers. i myself would get ****ed off if i knew a product of mine was sat in a store room doing nothing for a few days when i could have made the call myself. so next time you want to offer advice offer both options. dont limit consumers choices and options unless you really enjoy hassling consumers and knowing that with the untrained staff and waiting times the only way to get action is a court case. offer both options. let them choose. instead of insulting my grammer try offering more options not a single and proven stressful option leading to a single direction... the small claims totalizer. yes i have a shop, yes i have contacts. yes i can get things at cost price. yes yes yes. but if you had any idea of retail knowledge. any idea of business knowledge you would know trying to order a single part from your supplier for personal use is not always straight forward. especially when the tax man gets involved. i am not a person who would class a personal use product as business use. so i keep my personal purchases separate from business purchases. plus with delivery times i sometimes may not want to wait overnight for delivery. plus i own a shop not to the extent of pcworld. have you honestly seen the product selection of a pcworld store and believe that a small high street store owned by a sole trader can hold everything that pcworld supply. again this is more evidence that your persumptions are wrong and that your knowledge of retailers is limited. i would suggest learning more and getting better understandings of the area's you wish to advise. the world is black and white. you lot seem to only know black and think that is all that counts. sorry there are two sides. such as your lacking to remember that consumers have responsibilities aswell as rights. responsibilities aswell as rights

comment about store staff repairing below manufacturing standards. maybe you should not comment on technical issues such as repairs if you yourself spikeachu admit you are not technically minded. the manufacturing process is machine based. i would love to see a pcworld techguy instore technician produce a motherboard with his own two hands to the same standards as manufacturers. just so you all know. tofully comply with SOGA the repair has to be deemed as satisfactory to manufactoring standards. this means the parts used are equal in quality to the parts the manufacturer used. yes anyone can fit a new graphics card in with a bit of confidence. but if it is not the exact graphics card, motherboard which fits the description that the manufacturer used then this legally is deemed as not to manufacturing specifications. store staff dont sale the motherboards and processors that the manufacturers use. yes you can find a geforce graphics card a 250gb hard drive on the shelf.. but they dont match what the manufacturer uses. when you have experience of dealing with technicalities and repairs under SOGA you would understand. all you know is how to twist SOGA to your own limited knowledge. again i have offered money, offered my apologies if anyone could prove some of the things they say and instead their replies have been insults to my grammar. next time open your mind. learn the technicalities of SOGA. get more indepth into it. see some cases in action. see the results. talk to other people... the world is black and white.. grey is just an inability to know the difference.. you may think its white because you have read it 5 times a day. a million other people including judges may think its black.. learn both sides of the story. learn the technicalities of both sides. in pcworld stores there is no training on customer service in the area of SOGA. they are trained to use the till system for refunds and if they get a shouter to pass them onto the manager, or if they really get abusive pass them onto the security guard. hense why, rather then being a manager for them i set up my own business. read some other forums about pcworld training from other ex employee's and you will see the evidence there. go to the store and ask the staff. stop thinking white when the truth is black. i would never work in a retailer with employee turnaround such as them.. they are part timers that have no care about the customer because it does not affect their wage or life at the end of the day. the store i visit managed to hold onto some of the loyal staff from the change from commission based pay to non commission and because of the time that they have been their i have built up a relationship with the staff. i hate retailers with part timers who dont care. the only reason i defend them is because i see these loyal staff getting insulted and abused by customers demanding things that the staff cannot physically do. especially when i stood behind one customer queuing up demanding a replacement of a laptop because she had been advised from you lot on here.. she was a great advert for you. hense why i am here. if you want results why go to the untrained entity. call the engineers or the customer service department. spikeachu has already admitted they ARE trained. my advice is to simply guide consumers in the direction of people that can give them results!! gyzmo advice is to avoid results. but to build up the forums popularity and the small claims totalizer. spikeachu. ok you have been trained to work within the law.. say you had a phonecall from a customer with a computer over a year old with a issue that they reported happening randomly from day one (inherint fault) what was your training suggesting your/pcworlds solution to be.??

so spikeachu admitting ur a employee you should be trained on matter like this.. such as pat deems that all retail staff are.. so with your training should customers go to store and deal with staff who will get to it when they can and send it off to get repaired. or should they call 0844 56 1 00 00 / 0870 9013000 and ask the customer services/ complaints department/legal department the best remedy. yes the consumer has a legal right to get a entity to deal with it. but with the admission that store level staff are not trained to repair to the same workmanship quality of manufacturers and untrained in law. who is best to deal with it

it is proven that a advent is made from cheaper parts then lets say a sony.sorry but there is a difference in origin in parts. sony screens are different from advent screens (x-black for instance) yes probably toshiba and advent screens are the same but the hinges and cases are different. hense the price difference. laptops have a shelf life of about 3-5 years depending on what lifestyle it is used for. gamers for instance need upgrades to play latest games every few months and office users can be ok for 4 years without needing to upgrade. pcworld staff are untrained with regards to SOGA. id suggest asking them to check their OASIS system. their oasis system has three area's. 1) what to do under reasonable time from purchase (28days) 2) what to do in first year 3) which is simply called - "faulty" ask to see what is placed under the title "faulty" as this is what their remedy will be in your case. or call 0844 56 1 00 00 and ask about the OASIS remedy.

again blueskies, their oasis system is the guidelines to which remedy to use under soga. it is not some weird system to make consumers run around in circles it is the system which has been designed and CHECKED to conform to SOGA. yes it is a policy but it is the path for a remedy. the only other options if a remedy cannot be honoured by using OASIS is a small claims court case. so ask about their OASIS remedy solution if you want it fixed. or follow gyzmo's advice and demand an immediate repair from a member of staff untrained to repair it and without parts to repair it. and then write a letter to the company threatening legal action. its soo much easier to just go by what they have evaluated and CHECKED as the least costly and least inconvenient route first. which again is their OASIS system.

read gizmo's post.. for example gyzmo:"Rubbish. Most high street retailers have been "requested" to sign up to a good behaviour scheme because they are so incompetent" there is your answer to why i say staff are untrained. and it is true!.. part timers which is a high percentage of retail staff are not fully trained especially in the area of legal rights and acts. retailers again are shelf stackers. not legal experts and not engineers. they cannot repair printers or laptops or external hard drive. the grey shirt techguys deal mostly with installing upgrades and software issues. but the pcworld counter staff are definetly not engineers, neither are the managers. anything under SOGA, guarantee get sent away. not repaired instore! so they are not trainede to deal with items under SOGA/warrenty hense me and others saying they are untrained. so again why go to staff that cant do the repairing???? again gyzmo has stated himself to avoid caling the engineers/ manufacturers under guarantee period and go straight back to store. ok next point. " Only yesterday I took my phone back to Three shop for repair (it's nine months old) and demanded it be done under legislation and not under any warranty. twenty minutes later, it was sent off to their repair centre." you are stating the customer service level of a different retailer (three). please stay on topic! pcworld have a queueing system, first come first serve. if there were 50 customers all asking for action then it is right and honourable to serve them in order and deal with each action properly. this is the case. i am not saying they leave it on the shelf and giggle/laugh and do nothing just for the fun of seeing it on the bench. it is sat their because they have other customers that come first that they are dealing with in order. nice that 3 can afford enough staff to be more rapid with calls/repairs/issues, maybe more evidence that pcworld are going downhill to not afford high enough staffing levels to deal with issues as quick as 3. my point is why does pat, gyzmo and others always say to avoid warrenty's and only use SOGA when the item is under a warenty period. especially when gyzmo himself admit the incompitence of retailers and i love you gyzmo especially when you say this: gyzmo:"Warranties may be useful if it coveres something not covered by legislation (such as dropping an item and breaking it) but where it is covered by legislation, the warranty will often be less effective. You are using statutory rights when using SoGA, not some additional contract." gyzmo have a chat with conniff. conniff have a chat with gyzmo. if you drop it no one, retailer or manufacturer will touch it for free.. if there is a genuine fault under a warrenty period then it is proven faster to deal with it under warrenty with anything pcworld related. maybe not 3 related but pcworld related it is. conniff: "and I think only you would be stupid enough to do that when there is someone stood under a sign saying Customer Services." try visiting a store next time.. stores i go to have a techguy sign.. NO customer service sign.. the grey shirt techguys deal with healthchecks and upgrades and virus issues. in the store i visit and many others i see purple/pinkish shirts on the front counter booking in repairs. they are not specialist staff dedicated to the area of customer service they are just sales assistants, shelf stackers. reading from other forums and complaints there is evidence that the staff in general offer bad sales advice to customers purchasing pc's so in that case i have generalised them as being shelf stackers. because that is the main thing people have seen them do instore. conniff: "Who is going to request any other way or offer payment when there is a warranty?" thank you my point exactly. have a chat to gyzmo, he would request another way even when there is a warrenty and has always managed advise to only go to store even under warrenty period. another point gyzmo "And as for the rest of it - item sitting n shop for three weeks etc, well that means the store is not providing he remedy as required, and does not itself make legislation ineffective." ok imagine this, there are four customers 1) customer with a printer which the fastest way for the retailer to deal with it is to call a telephone number and get an engineer to the store next day. 2) customer wants to drop off their PC to get a virus removed. 3) customer has a paper jam in their printer which can be remedied by simply pulling out the paper. 4) customer in the queue has a 50" TV that needs to be sent away. the only way is to get it sent to the repairers which DHL can organise for 5 days time to pickup. .. ok now then does the store ignore the paper jam and virus customers and call the repairers for the printer and then get in their car and hand deliver the TV that day to the repairers on the customers behalf as it is considered reasonable. or do they while customer waits call the engineer for printer, then book in virused pc, then unscrew other printer to remove paper jammed printer and fix it. and then while customer waits call DHL for TV. OR do they book in the TV and printer and call the engineer and DHL in their lunch break/after hours and then deal with the other customers first. knowing that the telephone calls take 20 minutes to answer and 10 minutes to book engineer/DHL and knowing that there are 1 customers a minute joining the queue meaning if they make a phone call they create a queue of 30 customers if done while customer waits where is the right balance gyzmo??? if you were customer number 30 and were told you have to wait because customer number 1 is demanding the advisor calls the engineer rather calling then the customer themselves calling would you be happy??? no.. you would never be happy, and i dont think you ever will be happy about anything retail related back to the main point yes you can use SOGA or warrenty. i am not suggesting just one option. i am just suggesting the fastest option for the case of pcworld. yes 3store is different and that is great. but i agree with gyzmo that store staff at pcworld are incompitent when it comes to SOGA rights. so why deal with your SOGA issue with an incompitent member of staff when there is a call centre that CAN deal with it. why go to the store for a warrenty repair when the staffing levels are so bad that it will sit on a bench for weeks. some of you people need to seriously open your minds and think. stop comparing the service they receive from other retailers. stay on topic please. yes there is legislation involved about reasonable time. but in this case sitting on a bench while they go through a queuing system IS reasonable. if it is sat there for the fun of it then this is UNreasonable. think of retailers side, how retailers work and how they deal with individual issues. the top thread from myself is valid and legal! it IS the fastest and easiest way for consumers to get the item repaired, fixed, replaced and remedied with least hassle. also to note it was commented that gyzmo and others dont care about costs to the retailer they just want it fixed. id suggest they re-read SOGA again because the remedy needs to be least inconvenient to consumer AND.. yes AND least costly to retailer. so you DO have to take retailers cost into account when seeking a remedy under SOGA.

can non extended warrenty customers legally get monies from the trust that is set up? I have spoken to the manufacturers of the products that i sell and they have informed me that after the warrenty period is up they have no more ties to the product. so unless it is under the warrenty customers cannot get it sorted via them. well without paying the full repair or replacment costs. i guess if my suspicions are correct then there are going to be even more posters on here asking for advice about their rights. that is why i am trying to find advice about a actual path with a positive result for consumers if the worse happens. - idea to moderator or website owner - making a guide of telephone numbers and addresses of the top creditors, manufacturers to save time and hassle for consumers. just in case. i believe that with the monies and profit the company have means that it may take years to go bankrupt but i believe in being prepared

In my business i have put a small percentage of my profits into a trust to cover such a situation as a liquidation of my business. i have promised myself that i personally or the business itself will not access the monies. and put safeguards that it will only be used AFTER liquidation. as part of the terms and conditions of sale of my products i have stated that there is a trust setup to look after issues in the unlikely event of my businesses demise. with contact details of the solicitors office that will deal with it. over the years this trust has grown to quite a large amount and i beleive that the monies inside can definetly cover costs of all issues for my customers from 6 years ago until now. personally i will never gain any money from this ever, the only possible people that will are the solicitors who will gain any left overs. but only 6 years after my businesses demise. plus i have placed stipulations that they cannot withold monies from the account for personal or corperate gain. dont ask me about the legal in's and outs of it i just know the basics where i have wrote out the terms of the trust and got the solicitors to sign and my judge friends to witness. i personally had the bad side of having a faulty computer from TIME just as they went belly up so i seen the consumers side of companies disappearing off the planet. especially with the high media coverage of the fairpacks customers i have seen friends and rivals setting up outsider trusts which can only be accessed by a solicitor in the unlikely event of their business going down. i just simply want to know have DSGI got anything to look after their customers?

yep and even consumers direct, CAB and the judges i know all agree that the company policy is and has been designed to help untrained staff work out a least inconvenient solution for the consumer and least costly for the company. yes the company can do all the calling for the consumer, can deal with it but at a inconvenience to themselves. and also by it sitting on a bench for days before arranged to be sent to repairers from store, an inconvenience to consumers. my advise is not illegal it is simply stating the fastest and easiest way to get it sorted. why stress yourself talking to a store shelf stacker, then have your product sat on a bench for days? why not call the experienced departments like the technicians and repairers direct. and by the way the consumers in the first year have got two options one is SOGA dealing via retailer. or using a warrenty service. if a warrenty service is free and faster.. why avoid it. consumers want results, not stress.. give consumers both options that they can go to manufacturer or use SOGA. again manufacturers warrenty does not affect consumers rights so if it is faster to get it repaired then dealing with the store, getting stressed and then write threatening letters to companies... then why not just use the fast free service. i just cant see why anyone would prefer the hassle and stress of going down one route if there is an easier route available to them. yes yes yes its their right, but it is not the only option open to them if i was told this "you have two options. 1) leave the product instore, after a week it will be sent of to repairers, get fixed and then returned to store. then a few days later the staff will eventually call you to say pick it it. or if all else fails write a letter giving them upto 28 days to honour the repair or request refund. then prepare for court case or 2) call engineers, courier service, manufacturer direct and avoid half the issues involved with option one" we all know retailers are not trained or care about consumers so why use them. if there are other options why not use them

back to my point. if DSGI was to go belly up what would happen to consumers SOGA rights. who would they go to. has DSGI set up a trust or a entity who can deal with issues or would consumers have nothing but a court case against a liquidated company, which means their faulty product will never get sorted? i know consumers cannot just ask for a refund or go to court asking for money because the company simply does not exist. i know they have to have a faulty product to have a legal case. but exactly who can they go to if dsgi disapeared off the face of the earth. employees at my local store looked a bit worried when i asked them this question as if i knew something they didn't. i hope i have not scared any of them to jump ship too incase they now fear redunduncy because of my question. but they simply have no idea of the companies back up plan if things go bad. anyone, especially people admitting they work for dsgi know the answer?

i wish they did pay me, even a penny. i originally came on here because i enjoy my visits to the store i live near, the staff are friendly and seem to know more then most other retailers. maybe because the staff i speak to have been employees from day one and so they have learnt a few things over the years and not the untrained shelf stacker that only been working for pcworld for 2 months just at weekends like most retailers. i remember the good old days where computers used to sell for a minimum of £900 and made companies about £200+ profit. the days where there was enough money to emplyee english call centre staff and where computer cases and parts where made of proper high quality metals. the days where employee's had a reputation to uphold where refunds means a loss of their commision. those days have gone. prices have dropped and to survive retailers of all types have had to take paycuts to there store staff, profit cuts to their products and had to ship their call centres to india. and everyone blames the retailer. i just hate everyones anger at the shops and companies when really it all boils down to government and to creditors. if mortgage levels were lower, governements minimum wage was higher then the consumer would not penny pinch so much to want everything for nothing. companies would love to meet customers expectations and do everything to keep a customer loyal. but at the costs that customers are not willing to pay, this will never happen. end of my rant. thank you.

physically the hard drive is not left on the shop floor for any customer to pick up and leave, or access. it is behind the counter/glass wall where only shop staff are. i beleive pcworld have a secure ibas system which is accessed by a login option which only techguy instore engineers have access. even shelf stackers dont have access to this. the hard drive becoming faulty is not got anything to do with the dataprotection side of safety. the hard data is then deleted off of the ibas system or techguys test machine whichever was used once the data is transfered. hense why the only way to retrieve the data is to send off the external hard drive to the specialist labs. again. data is volitile i would suggest next time you use a onlone secure backup service, memory stick, external hard drive, hard copy(paper) if you believe the data is precious. yes they promised to transfer the data so yes they should try their best to get the situation sorted. but using data protection against the scenario of a faulty hard drive is just illogical. if the hard drive fell into the hands of con artists or outsiders then data protection would come into affect. but just remember. when allowing them to do the service the OP did sign a thing that mentioned the data is sole responsibility of the owner. the signature forms an agreement, an understanding and an acceptance of those terms. just allow the company to waste £600 to send it to the specialist labs and hope for the best. apart from that treat it as a learning experience to always backup and not blame others for your loss.

yes gyzmo. from now on i would like to see a few of your posts contain the following "this is not your legal right, but may get results to avoid bad press, stress or loss of customer loyalty" never ever tell consumers that forcing untrained staff to action something is their legal right. what company do you work for by the way gyzmo