I have had this, albeit in a strange way. I sent a CCA to Lowells re a Crapital One debt, there was standard reply from Lowells saying thank you for the £1 we will get your CCA to you within 28 days, that was in June. Later, they defualted and then 'sold' the debt to Red Insolvency, a subsidury of Lowells themselves! I do remember one CAG member telling me that even though they were one of the same DCA's, that they couldn't sell the debt on whilst an account was in dispute. I also wrote a similiar letter to Tiglet's letter above and I have yet to hear from anyone with my CCA (touch wood) TF x

Yes it certainly seems like that 8)

I was always lead to believe that without a signature the debt is unenforcable, anyone could have written their name and address on this 'agreement' would Reliable Collections pay someone else debt if they themselves had not put their signature to the agreement, I think not. Although the debt in unenforcable, it does not nessecerily go away, as I for some reason beleived for a while! It just means it cannot be enforced against you whilst the CCA is unavailable. Best of luck TF x

Amber, do not be ashamed of what you have done RW&Co are absolute bullies and they would have you believe allsorts of nonsense and they prey on the vunerable and people's lack of understanding of the law and consumer credit act, so I for one am glad that you gave them what for! DO CCA them, gives them something else to do and more lies to think of now CAG-ers are wise to most of their usual lies now! Good luck!

Techincally it shouldn't, however, some DCA's are guilty of using underhand tactics. I think the first thing you ought to do is to contact your local county court, to see if a CCJ has been entered against you, I think this is your first port of call, if it hasn't, it is unlikely that the DCA will gain a charging order against your property. Basically a charging order means that when you come to sell your house, the debt is paid off from the proceeds of the sale, after your mortgage is paid off, it is possible to repay earlier though. If you have not received any paperwork whatsoever, you would have sufficient ground to appeal against any CCJ, however, many judges look upon this set aside process to happen within 6 weeks of the judgement, or thereabouts, although it is up to judges discretion. Can I enquire as to whether you have been asked to appear before the court for an oral examination of your means? Generally, if you haven't paid a CCJ, you will be asked to do this normally, however, it may not be the same in every case. It is important to remember that if you do receive a N39, summons to appear for an oral examination, you attend, otherwise there may be a suspended warrant for your arrest issued, even if you have heard nothing about this debt, tell the person who examines your means this, if it happens, it may not. I would have thought, and I stand to be corrected that you would have had to have gone through the oral examination process prior to a charging order, I have little experience of this myself, I am generally going on my own knowledge and that I have picked up on CAG. I feel your action plan should be to get in contact with your local court, find out if there is a judgement against you, if they cannot tell you, there is a register of judgements you can search, although a fee is payable, about £7 for one search I think....by the way, the court staff are usually very helpful, so it is worth asking them for relevant set aside forms as well, there is a fee to apply to set aside, but if you are receipt of benefits or on a low income, it can be reduced or waivered. Does the DCA alledge any dates when all this was supposed to have taken place? If you can scan the correpondance that would be helpful, don't worry if you can't. If you would like to PM on this matter, please feel free to do so. TF x

OK, it may be too late for you to CCA them as it sounds like they already have a CCJ against you, in which they would have had to have produced the CCA, however, depending on when the judgement was obtained, you may be able to set aside, you'll find this wbsite useful Removal of CCJ's - Valid reasons to have your judgements set aside Although generally you have to act within a certain time window, good luck. TF x

Thanks to all. I am not confident in getting the defaults removed, my other posters experience, they can prove quite sticky, I will persist, I have simply sent a letter to RWCo thanking them for their attention (!!) to the matter and to remove, within 14 days the 2 defaults entered against me, I have also sent letters to the CRA with the copy of the letter saying the account is closed, although I don't think they will be much help, but I can try. Mind you, it won't make much a difference to my CR, it's shot to pieces anyway!

It might have been bundled ready for Westcot to sell to another DCA or it has been returned to the original creditor ready for them to sell on again, but wait to see who you hear from next and then as ODC says, CCA them.

Yes it can be enforced, but it has to go through the courts I believe. Contrary to what I used to believe, until someone kindly corrected me, the debt doesn't disappear without the CCA, it just means no action can be taken against the individual concerned whilst the CCA is AWOL. It won't stop many DCA's trying though. Paddy- best thing is to follow, to the letter, what has been advised here and keep us posted, each time you get a letter, or a call, let us know and someone here can advise you. If they do call your OH, just say to them ' Please place any correspondance in writing only, I will not communicate with you on the telephone' and hang up, do not get into any conversation with these people. At first I couldn't hang up but now it's second nature, if you are still getting calls, BT have a choose to refuse service, it's free or half price for the first months and it blocks certain numbers, it should only take that long for RMA to get the message. NB BT will not deal with harrassment calls from DCA's, both myself and my hubby have asked them to deal with it, but they won't, they recommended this choose to refuse service. Keep us posted and good luck TF x

Go Tiglet Hope this might prove to be a bit of a moral boost for you: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/82619-robinson-way-me.html They gave up in the end, Catalogues ARE covered by the CCA!!

Would I have to try and resolve this with the consultant first or should I contact the liason service first?

I am currently waiting for a response to my CCA to Arrow Global who are acting on behalf of LTSB for an overdraft that was made up of illegal charges, I have been going through the charges proccess with LTSB but it was put on hold pending the test case. No CCA has yet been provided for me, so I think, YES, you should CCA them and await their response, overdrafts are covered by the CCA. Out of interest and you do not have to answer, which bank is it and do you think you have illegal charges which could possibly be reclaimed?

Looking back on it now, I laugh at the 'Final Demands' that Robinscum Way used to send, red paper and 'DO NOT IGNORE', it was obviously so important that I didn't ignore they sent it by 2nd class post! DM Limited, could they possibly be Debt Managers Ltd, the one that is is Glasgow, I believe, if so spiritgirl, my husband had a similar letter in July, asking for payment for a Admiral Car Inasurance debt, my husband had only even asked for a quote from them and had never given any further information to them to set up a policy and no CCA was ever produced and a letter saying that the matter had been settled was sent upon receipt of the CCA letter!

Good Luck pblackie Am I right in thinking that Northampton Court is a bulk issuing centre and therefore a lot easier for DCA's to get court papers prepared from? Also, I believe pblackie that IF LOWells do take you to court, you have a right to have it heard in a court closer to your home anyway. Lowells really are the **** of the earth, on a par with Robinscum Way. Wishing you the very best with this.

Hi all, Some of you may have read my previous thread below, thank you all for the advice there http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/nhs/114548-disappearing-op-waiting-list.html The issue is now continuing and I apologise now for the long post, but I would appreciate any help which you may be able to offer. After much fussing, I was put in for the operation on 5th November, which was OK, my brother is getting married in France on the 3rd and we had originally planned to stay for a week in France so we curtailed our trip in order to get back in time. We have an further issue is that now we are the top of the NHS waiting list for IVF, but I cannot have the IVF without the operation, this is the opinion of both my initial consultant and the IVF clinic. Now, when we went to the IVF clinic in September, we had to decline this one course of IVF because I hadn't had this operation, they asked us to get a date so they could schedule again, and this is scheduled to start on 15th November. This fitted in with the operation. I was supposed to attend for a pre-admission clinic on Thursday for the operation, but we had not been given an appointment, so my husband called and asked what was going on. They then told him that the operation was cancelled and the consultant might not want to do the operation. I was upset by this and called the fertility clinic, as the situation is no operation= no IVF. They were really unhappy about this, they found my notes and said they would be unable to offer treatment without the operation, which is what we thought, however, they said if we didn't take this second offered course of treatment, we would be struck off the waiting list. Indeed this is written in the clinic literature, so we have been aware of that. So, my husband called the consultant's secreatary and we were told some operations have been cancelled until December and we were offered a date of 4th or 7th December. He raised the issue of the IVF and we were told there wasn't a lot they could do, despite waiting over the allotted time for the operation and the IVF clinic scheduling this treatment around this date. The problem we have is that hospital 1 haven't told us about the cancellations and we had curtailed a holiday to fit in with their schedule and hospital 2 have scheduled the IVF around hospital 1 and hospital 2 have said if we decline this treatment, we will not get another chance, however the operation is vital to the IVF working, but hospital 2 see it as hospital 1 have had a long time to sort this out. I feel like piggy in the middle and hospital 1 keep promising to ring back and they don't, I am loathe to put anything in writing in case the whole thing backfires on us and they won't give me the operation that they said I needed earlier this year. I'm also annoyed as they put the operation date in writing, so we managed to curtail our holiday but they didn't give us the pre-admission clinic appointment and it was only then when we chased it that they told us it wasn't going ahead. Husband was promised a call back yesterday but got nothing, he called them and got an answerphone, so he left 4 messages but obviously nothing can be done until Monday, I'd like to be able to have a response for when either they call back or we can them back. I'm really upset by this, there's nothing like playing with your emotions is there?! TF xx

Yes it is and I type up the contracts of employment for new/exisiting employess and it is a standard contract listing duties, pay and terms, in typing these up, all the male duties and exactly the same as my own, it is only the pay which is different. I am considerably more experienced than one of the males, who is being paid more than me, and I have the same amount of experience as the 'manager' as we have been there the same time and he comes from a different work background to what the company is trading in now, he admits freely that he often has little or no experience in some of the matters which arise, so I am hesitant to say he has more experience than myself, I believe we would be on an equal footing work wise. One of the male employees is older, one is younger. I have everything in writing so far, contract wise.

Thank you for replying and for the letter. I can understand your point there, however, I am not being paid the same as the males who are working there, for doing the same job, I am the only female in the company. I thought that this consitituted some form of discrimination? I stand to be corrected though. I am starting to outline my issues in writing as suggested. My contract is in writing and I may been working there since it started but I have only been being paid and thus contracted since the begining of May 2007.

Hi all, Can anybody please advise/help with an issue I am currently having. Basically- I am working in a firm owned in part by a member of my family, this person is a director in conjunction with another male. I work in an office with 3 other men. The company has been trading for 21 months. My role is partially administration and what you could call 'deputy management', I take on tasks from the manager who is not one of the 2 company directors, when he is not about and indeed when he is about, I basically share his job duties, including sales and negotiations of sales. I have worked there paid since May 2007, previously I had provided unpaid support in the same capacity, as a family favour, and in April they asked if I would provide that same role continuing on a more permanant and paid basis, I agreed and they agreed to pay me £7 per hour, and a review after 3 months with commission rate after this time to be agreed. I work 14-21 hours per week and get paid weekly, the hours depend of company needs. Increasingly I have noticed that I am being excluded from important client conversations, my work is supposedly going down hill and I have had a number of jobs which I used to carry out, taken away from me, without explaination. I am not kept informed of developments, which are vital to me being able to carry out my job, calls from my clients are not passed to me or a message taken for me to respond to in my absence. I have also noticed that 2 of the several sales I agreed have been assigned now to the manager and taken away from me, this means he will get the commission (the other sales commissions will go to the company), which brings me on to the next point. I asked the family member who employed me to discuss a comission package as I was doing a lot of sales chasing and indeed had made several sales of my own, but as there was no package, it was not clear how much commission I would receive. His response was the company was a bit too quiet to agree a commission package for myself. I also made him aware of the fact my duties were gradually being taken away from me, he said he would discuss it with the other members of staff. I asked him to do this in early September. He has not, as far as I am aware made any effort to speak to other members of staff, as the situation has become one that now I am just the coffee maker and washer-up, with nothing to do. I again asked the family member to observe the situation and possibly discuss with the others, a way forward. He did observe the situation and acknowledged there was one and promised to remedy the situation. This has not happened. I today asked him again whether I could discuss a comission package, as I was now predominantly taking on the managers role as is increasingly out of the office. Again I was told things were too quiet to warrent him speaking to the other director. The other director isn't in our office very much and thus doesn't see what I do, don't do etc, so I don't feel comfortable approaching him as he will most likely ask me to approch the other director and family member. Today I was told, by my family member that we were taking on a new member of staff, considering how we are supposedly quiet, this was a bit of a shock. I was asked to type up his contract of employment and I noticed that he was being offered a specific commission rate on lesser duties and hours than myself these are: £9.20 per hour, 17% commission per sale, for 12.5 average hours per week. I asked again, before I left today whether I could discuss a more appropriate salary package as I am consistently left in sole charge, I am making sales and bringing in money for the company. The last reply was if I don't like it, I could leave and that as I was working for a family member, he was uncomfortable approaching the subject with the other director as he would be being seen as favouring family members. I asked him directly if he was refusing to review my position and salary and he said yes. I was upset by this and I said to me it was showing a lack of respect for my position and my ability to be able to take sole charge regularly and making sales. Speaking to a former colleague from a previous employer, she said it sounds like sexual discrimination, I was being passed up and ignored in favour of male colleagues, but I am not sure. As this business is a family business, should I just accept I am being taken for a ride and cut my losses and leave? I am being paid less than everyone else, I do not have their benefits of employment and I am treated like dirt most of the time. I am reluctant to leave as I need the money as a student but the situation is really getting to me and I came home last night and cried for ages about it! Any advice would be appreicated. TF x

Good luck from me too, subscribing xx

OK, if it is indeed the air rifle company and the account is over 6 years old and you have not acknowledged any debt in writing, this may be stature barred, although I am not 100% sure on this, so someone else may correct me on this. This means they cannot pursue for the debt, won't stop them trying though!!

I very much agree with the previous posters- await their defaulting on your requests for your credit agreement, no CCA= No ENFORCABLE debt, I highlight the word enforcable, because it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I notice you state you have no knowledge of the alledged debt, have you checked your credit record and have AKTIV CAPITAL registered a default against you. A common tactic used by DCA's is that they will blast mailshot everyone with the same name or surname or date of birth and it is important to your credit record to get any annomilies removed, especially if the account was never yours in the first place. Do you know, from any correspondance from AK, when the alledged debt is from? NB did a quick google on 'Youngmans' and came up with a ladders company or a compnay that deals in guns amongst others!

BIG DEVELOPMENT IN MY BATTLE WITH ROBINSON WAY & COMPANY! They have now backed down and according to them 'We have reviewed you comments and in light of this, your account has been closed and no further correspondance will be entered into.' That's nice of them.....now on to default removal x2 with them!

I had the OP's letter today as well. I also wondering how far they will get without a CCA! Signing on to offer support. Get on to Manchester (not Salford, that's only their postal address) Trading Standards, they have been quite helpful towards me.

How stupid are Robinson Way? VERY. They claim I owe them anywhere between £220 and £2500 to Next/Great Universal, they can't decide which and how much but they all have the same reference number. No CCA for nearly 5 months and they still want payment....AS IF.

ARGGH Well, a blue stripey envelope dropped through the door today, in reponse to my last letter stating that I have reported them to Manchester TS, FOS and the OFT and that any demand for payment was unlawful due to their continued non compliance and stating they were causing psychological harassment by claiming demands for payments when accounts were in dispute etc. This letter is a 'Pre-Court' demand for payment in full. Copy forwarded to TS, FOS and OFT by first class post. Going to (unless anyone can offer any better solutions) just ignore Robinson Way for the time being. Don't these cowboys ever give up?