Have managed to get the UTCCR stat statements 5, 6 & 8 so will print them off & highlight relevant bits, or should i just cut & Paste the relevant bits as this is not a court bundle CM

I would advise reading around in the forums to learn the art of claiming, and what response you are likeley to get from the banks etc. All the banks say their charges are fair & reflect the true cost of admin you account, We know different, and the response so far is a standard reply. Your first letter was what is called your prelim letter, this is then followed up with a letter before action or LBA which you must send before starting court claim. To start a court claim you must familiarise yourself of filling in a claim, and there are various pitfalls to avoid. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/25457-guide-reclaiming-bank-charges.html Dont rush into it, see if you can find a forum dealing with the same bank as you are wishing to claim from, that way questions are more relevant to you as all the banks work in different ways, no set pattern Celicaman

Hi, the discharge fee are what they charge for discharging the mortgage. If the fee is different to the amount they told you it would be in the original mortgage, then you can claim the difference back. I was with northern rock and initial Docs said mortgage discharge fees would be £85, but when changed mortgage co they charged £195, so i wrote asking if was entitled to refund THey wrote back saying yes ,of £110 and sent it no probs. Admin charges, i think you prob could claim back, it depends on wether they were actually fo something, or just for admin of being in arrears, if latter you should be able to claim them back. Celicaman

Ok with ref to 4. In relation to each of the said charges, particularise the terms of the mortgage with the Defendant (or other contractual documentation) that is claimed to be unenforceable. We have a copy of the 1995 mortgage conditions There is no mention made to charging for late/missed payments. In the section 'Costs' 21. All reasonable liabilities, costs & expenses of any kind incurred by the society or any officer or agent of the society in respect of the property, the mortgage , any other security the society holds for the payment of the sums which the mortgage or such security or the collection of sums due under the mortgage or such security must be paid by the borrower to the society on an indemnity basis. THese costs include the costs of legal proceedings wether brought by or against the borrower or any other person. (B) Such liabilities costs & expenses are repayable by the borrower to the society on demand. They will be added to the principal sum for the date of expenditure and will carry interest at the current rate under condition 5. End On the reverse of the offer Costs The society charges costs forthe provision of admin services to borrowers from time to time for such matters a arrears admin, tranfer equity, additional loans and deeds. Full current costs are available on request

Hi Zootscoot how does this sound for answer to Q2. Particularise each and every breach of contract that allegedly gave rise to the said charges...... According to the terms of the contract, the payments were due on the 1st of each month. To the best of the claimants knowledge, the claimant believes that: The first breach of contract was for the payment due 1st July 2001, which was paid on the 20th September 2001 with a subsequent penalty charge levied on the 2nd September 2001 The Second breach of contract was for the the payment due 1st August 2001, which was paid on the 30th October 2001, with a subsequent penalty charge levied on 1st October 2001 The third breach of contract was for the payment due 1st September 2001 which was paid on the 30 November 2001, with a subsequent penalty levied on the 30th November 2001. It follows that with the account remaining in arrears of at least 1 month, 2 months and more, that Northern rock levied further charges to the claimant’s account for breach of contract on the following dates: 1st April 2002 3rd November 2002 4th March 2003 2nd June 2003 2nd April 2004 Unfortunately, Northern Rocks Statements, relating to the charges do not specifically detail which breach of contract each charge is for, simply that arrears charges have been made, i.e. a single arrears entry on each yearly statement with no detailed breakdown. For this reason, it is impossible for the claimant to state which subsequent late payment each particular charge is for. CM

Thanks guys & Girls, Freaky i see you have moved house, now living in middle earth. Tastes changed from sheep to Hobbitts Huh CM

Ok, we will do that today, well in morning anyway Is there anything we should do/say as NR have not answered our request other than quoting their T & C's in their reply & advice that they were filing to strike out

When we received & answered their CPR18 request, we replied with same and also sent copies of all to the court, including their letter.

Yes we sent copy of everything to the court, including copy of our cpr18 request Cm

Hi Zootscot, thanks for that, How do i change the cpr18 request now, considering the date of 31st for the hearing. Should we ask for a stay to allow time to send info, The NR cpr request was only ever made by NR & not the court. CM

Hi Zootscoot, Where would i find the clause about indemnity, would that be on the Mortgage contract ?. We have checked and cant see anything like that in the T & C's They have asked for claim to strike out for supposedly not answering their CPR18 request,( we did fully & also asked them for breakdown of their costs re cpr18 8) With the form N244 part C, they say 'if the defendent is successful in its application it reserves the right to apply for its costs. After their request we received the court date ( Notice of hearing form saying that the hearing for the defendants application will take place on 31st July) & rec'd AQ (N149) and we filed with that a request for draft order. Then we rec'd this notice from them about what costs they intend to claim. The claim has not been allocated yet and is only £225 and was issued MCOL Thanks for your help Celicaman

Ok Guys & Gals heres the LBA & refusal of offer With reference to your letter of **th July 2007. Thank you for pointing out the charges for stopping cheques and items returned items paid in, I have revised the summary sheet to show nil for those items, and show a revised total below. In reply to your statement that HSBC do not refund debit interest. I contest this as incorrect & refer to the recent Halliday vs HBOS case where Justice Underhill confirmed that debit interest could be claimed on unlawfull charges. In reply to the OFT statement relating to credit card companies and not banks. ‘The April statement also indicated that the OFT considers that the broad principles in relation to default charges are likely to be relevant to other standard agreements with consumers such as those for bank current accounts.’ Source OFT website. I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my business account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law and contrary to Statute. I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law. I am frankly shocked that you have operated the account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary. I do not accept your offer of £***.00 as, even taking into account the revised charge summary, the amount is still far short of the amount I am claiming. As I believe a court would award the debit interest, I again include it in my claim amount. I calculate that you have taken £*** plus £*** which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken. Total £****.** I require repayment of this money. If you do not return it to me in full within 14 days, I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest, plus my costs, without further notice. Hows that then Oh and did anybody notice they forgot to mention that they think it is outside of the 6 year limitations, maybe next letter CM

Ok, update Letter yesterday,( pretty fast reply) with usual garbage Need to revise charges as put couple stopped cheque charges on there that shouldnt have been ( i stopped them, & didnt realise thats what they were, well now i do, thanks HSBC) 3 x £4 charges on there for returned cheques, IE customer cheques that bounced, cost me £4 each, didnt know if i can claim them, they say no, i will check it out. They say they don't pay OD interest on the charges, well in Halliday vs HBOS case, the judge said they do They claim that the OFT statement about credit card charges does not include business accounts. Well actually it just said other bank accounts and not specifically personal accounts, so wrong again. But because they are mindfull etc, they will offer under £500 so nice letter back to mr patel saying thanks for pointing mistake out and the rest is balony, oh and no thanks i want all my money Any comments Celicaman

Ok, heres a list of what they would 'claim' as the costs attendances on claimant £31.80 Attendances on court £63.60 attendances on hearing £195.00 attendances on documents £909.40 Court fees £65.00 Total £974.40 well if its cost them all that, wouldnt it have just been easier to refund my £200 in the first place

not used vampress before, but can you not just delete that row, as you dont need to show the credit in your summary of charges, just the ones you are claiming CM

This may help clarify something that PD said above Started business claim 15th july claiming just over £1k plus interest on the charges, i received yesterday and offer of settlement of under £500, now apart from a couple stopped cheque charges which i put on and need to take off, the offer is only around 50% of claim. So what craigten is working on seems to be correct, the offers are now much less. Oh and they also said they dont pay OD interest, well according to the halliday vs hbos judge, they have to. they also claim that the oft investigations into the level of default charges set out by HSBC and other credit card companies. The oft statement noted represents the View of the OFT and relates solely to credit cards not to business overdrafts ! This again is rubbish as the oft said the charges related to bank accounts in general and made no specific pointer towards personal accounts So apart from amending my summary, i am preparing my letter of get lost. Hope that helps craigten as well. Celicaman

Thanks again Pete, will digest & decide what to do, date is for 31st July so not that long to get anything in & the judge prob not even see it before then as courts are behind with claims, Must be busy LOL Cheers CM

Just had a thought as well, i wonder what they would think if i send a letter to the OFT, complaining about their tactics, its about time they were held accountable for their actions. Blood boiling now, cos if i wasnt part of CAG & didnt have peeps like you around i would be falling apart by now. Thanks for the support Pete CM

Hi Pete, thanks, the only response i had about CPR 18 was in post 15, where they state their T & Cs again. Do you think i should send some sort of letter to the court with a copy of the costs letter from NR & complain of their tactics also pointing out that they have failed to respond to the CPR 18. When i rang court last week,was told the judge should be looking at AQ & my request for a draft order very soon. Can i put toilet paper on the wasted costs cos im getting through some LOL CM

Hello to the 2 guests viewing this thread, why dont you join CAG and join in the fun CM

I have just had a letter at home from northern rock, with reference to my claim. Have not actually seen letter myself yet, but according to my wife, it is a claim from N R of their costs in preparing the claim as they have applied for it to be struck out and the hearing is 2 weeks time. 3 x letters x £10.50, attendance of court on that date £195.00 and anything else that they have done. They cant do this as it is a small claim, or at least it will be allocated to small claims. This is sheer intimidation, but need some advice on how to fight this back Help CM

Are there any charges before that that could add up to same amount, its obviously credit for something taken out, maybe a paid in credit wrongly added up in a pay in book could be that they adjusted by paying in credit like that ? CM

Just had a lay person read through the Sampra metals v inland rev and as much as so much of it goes over my head, ( a lot of the law stuff just melds into a different language to me) but there is a lot that doesn't, and IMHO the parts i understood sound good for CI claims. Got a basic idea of how it would work in a claim, and tie in with getting over the 6 year limitations as well, but will let those that actually do know what it all means to put it on here, but it sounds promising to me. Dont ask me any questions on it, im still trying to work it round my head. Just dusting off the printer now CM

I agree with JW, you need to go through the statements fully & re list the charges and find the credited amounts (cancel off your summary sheet, the ones you find) so you know exactly how much your friend is claiming. The banks offer is always below claimed but usually about 80% of charges, but this does not seem to pan out if your figures are correct. Are any charges past 6 years that they may have disregarded ? IMO Your friend seems to think that it is just a case of putting in a claim and they will pay up, they are sadly mistaken, the bank will not pay what is not due and a badly prepared claim Could be struck out further down the line, so make sure your friend gets the figures correct this time. Dont give the bank ammunition. CM

Standard bull, carry on Bet it starts out with 'the claimants business/ personal account' they dont even read them to see what sort of account you have, its a one size fits all defence. Just make sure bundle has all the required bits in, and you will get your offer CM