DX100, My point exactly! I think I should claim 17.9% at the loan rate but if they fight it I would accept a court offer of 8% if he deemed that was a fair conclusin, certainly a lot better than 4.16%!!!! However, how could they fight this in court when they have broken CCA requirements and do not have my agreement???? They have accepted that due to their inability in not being able to find the agreement they will refund the money. Its in writing... Gooders

Thanks Guys, Well looking at it and using Mindzai's spread sheet £388 interest on £1939 since Oct/Nov 2002 is 4.16% At 8% interest this would be £463.61. I also went on-line and got a quote for £1939 over 48 months, this they kindly offered me at 17.9% which would mean a massive £1288.78 in interest when appled to my loan! I also calculated 29.8% but that scared me!!!!! (over 4 grand!!! £2500 in interest) I am inclined to listen to how they came to the figure, and unless they offer to apply the loan rate I was on (not likely because they cannot find my agreement!!!) then I think there is an argument for applying their loan rate of 17.9% and even the un-authorised rate of 29.8%. I would of course be content with the 8% that I am entitled to but......they are bargining from a very doggy position ie they cannot comply with the CCA request and this surely shifts the power for bargining. All I want is the PPI back at the loan rate I was charged for it. It is what I am entitled to, if not then I will fight for contractual interest (but be willing to accept statutory). Are there any glaring errors in my reasoning???? Because unfortunately for obvious reasons the contractual rate is very appealling to me and I trying to be balanced. Gooders

All, Brief outline. Took Loan out in Oct/Nov 2002 Never got option of PPI (box was already ticked) CCA'd Lloyds & they have said 1) They apologise but cannot supply original agreement. 2) They are willing to refund the cost of PPI at £1939.12 3) They have adjusted their figures to include £388.71 interest. MY QUESTION Because LTSB cannot supply original agreement, there is no way of knowing what interest rate was applied. £388.71 is a compound rate in the region of 4.16%, I KNOW this will not have been the interest applied onto the loan!!! So do I: a) ask for stat 8% b) claim unauthorised interest rate of 29.8% c) Or another rate?????? They cannot supply the agreement so are admiting they are breaking the requirement of the CCA request....therefore the law! Surely this means that the unauthoorised rate is in effect???? Im NOT being greedy just astounded that they have admitted in writing that they cannot comply with the legislation....surely their must be some cost to that. The lady has said she will ring me back detailing how the interest was calculated, so I need urgent help to work out wether to put in a counter offer or say no thankyou, I will go for court. Gooders

Agreements have to be signed by both parties for them to be enforceable!!! So looks like a winner on that front. I too need to trawl through the CCA when/if I get my agreements from them as there are so many different requirements eg T&Cs, signatures, dates, cancellation rights, early release clauses that must be complied with that make the agreement unenforceable...(or might make it so) if they are not contained in the 'true copy' that they send you. Most importantly....(after it being signed and dated!!!) it MUST be easily legible!!! By far the best is if they don't supply the required documents after 12 wds + 1 cal month then they have broken the law and you have control. The CCA thread I gave is really long but I have learnt a lot from people on there and it may be worth you starting a particular thread in that section asking for more help. Gooders

Right you need to read the ccathread I gave you above. As I am only going for memory here. 2 out of 3 are totally unenforceable! ie the ones that he has not signed...how could they enforce that???? The third may not be enforceable but you will need to go through it in relation to the CCA. There are so many things they must provide you with that I loose track! Seems like you have a great case to at least reduce your loan by the UNSIGNED agreements Gooders

Kelly Duffy Halifax Plc Trinity Road etc HX1-2RG Mr Andy Hornby CEO HBOS Plc The Mound Edinburgh EH1-1YZ Mr Benny Higgins CEO Retail Banking HBOS Plc The Mound Edinburgh EH1-1YZ Funny how when I sent these letters after 5 days something was being done. Wonder what the hold up was since 17 Jan????? Oh how I look forward to Benny's letter......may even frame it!!! As always, hope this helps! Gooders

Emma, Personally Im quite happy for them to do nothing up to 8 April. I hope they arent now looking for my paperwork too:wink: Lets get this right,......and I have asked un1boy to clarify his statement last night because there is no basis for what he said about all student loans not being covered by the CCA. We know that to be untrue. With both our cases they are in default great! our position is stronger. But not the strongest it can be. If they are in default they can still produce the document after say 12 wds + 1 calander month (-1 day) then they would no longer be in default and payments would have to start again. What I want is form them not to pass me the details and break the law, then my position goes from strong (whilst in default) to practically untouchable!!!!! in my eyes the very least getting your debt wiped out and with a good clam on all payments made so far. Gooders

Ah a sensible head at this time of night! Thanks Louis for dragging us back on point!!! Will continue in that vain from now on! Gooders

Pam, Thats right loans initiated after Sept 1998 are not covered by CCA, those before are. This is a very important distinction and a couple of comments tonight nearly started the hares running!!! Gooders

but done in good humour!!!

couldnt resist:razz:

AJG, As the capitulator said, its not a problem just part of the terms and conditions you agreed to when you signed up for the site.... Surely like me when handed a sheet of T&Cs by someone like a bank or...even a web site you read them fully!!! Easily done isnt it? Gooders

Emma, Take deep breath......in......and out! Firstly B@llocks! Your loans are pre 1998 so as far as I am aware and for what I have read stuff em Secondly Utter B@llocks!!!! The request was received at the office which they give you for the address. IT IS NOT YOUR CONCERN, or the laws that they are inept and their administration cr@p!!! Use your recorded delivery date!!!!! I wouldnt phone them and argue this until they have committed a crime against the CCA which is 12 working days and 1 calander month. So hang fire and get ready to "unleash Hell!" Gooders

firstly good god you got statements!!!! I am shocked! I have only ever had one statement and that ws ordered this year. Not sure about your query as my loans were 94,96,97 & 98 so they must have well and truely got this software in and running. I have however SARd for the statements. What were the charges? are we talking £2 or more likely £20ish. If the latter then they are unfair & unlawful therefore you cann claim them back. Interest would be an interesting question I would go for their arrears rate on top of what ever you claim. Its what they would have done to you. By the way doe the SLC still own your loans? Gooders

snOOps I wrote to: Kelly Duffy (Trinity Road) Benny Higgins - CEO Retail Banking (HBOS, The Mound Edinburgh, postcode on sticky) & Andy Hornby - CEO HBOS (again The mound Edinburgh) Low and behold less than a week later I see movement. It will cost you a bit extra but IMO worth keeping these guys in the loop that way when/if you go to court then you can state.......well your CEO new that you were past your deadline!!!!! I do have the postcodes if you need them but not with me. Let me know if you need them. Gooders By the way the letter to Kelly Duffy was a doosie......wish I had a copy here!! But much along the same lines as the theft one!!!! The CEOs must have loved it, especially my offer to settle for £900 plus a goodwill payment............all that suffering!!!

Agreed. More facts are needed and I welcome the discussion. It just seems some of your comments are harsh, maybe for effect, but if this guy is in a hole, he needs as much balanced advice as possible IMO.

In your own words....these are the guys we are supposed to trust and talk to in order to make a fair agreement on paying back a debt or do you cover yourself by going the official route (for what it is worth apparently) and dispute the debt? I know what I would do...... By the way AJG, and not picking on you, you have told the Mods your an Ex-bank employees havent you?

AJG Om glad you are not taking offence as again none was went. "no matter what you say...." doesn't help with the discussion. I understand your point and AGAIN he is not hiding from the debt and by actively claiming what is rightfully his is facing things head on!!! You will notice in my initial post I agreed with your point of aranging small payments but you HAVE to agree there are ther ways to fight this battle. the facts are the important part here, much more than peoples experiences .... whatever they may be. IMO a biased argument is flawed from the outset. Gooders

AJG Noone is advocating hiding behind anything here and indeed he has mentioned I understand and respect your position from working in the industry. However, he has ANOTHER option than the one you advise. it is OBVIOUS this debt is in dispute and by the sounds of it he has every right. My point is he needs to protect himself as much as possible by infoming his bank that he is disputing the debt, which as a consequence will give him more time to sort things out without being hounded! You will obviously be well aware what it says in the banking code about disputed debt. Yes a small payment plan is an option but it has to be agreed and the banks version of what I can afford and mine might be different. The debt is acknowledged the reasons for the debt is being fought (charges)!!! As an aside I find a comment like particularly pointed and not that helpful. Is it not better to present a rounded view of the options available rather than funnel someone into one particular way just because you, I or the next person would take that particular route or believes that to be the best way forward? give the options and let him make an educated decision Or do old habbits die hard? Again this is my personal view and in no way meant offend. Gooders

sorry about this guys but can I ask un1boy to clarify something please what do you mean they aren't?:o surely student loans pre 1998 are indeed covered by the CCA? Can you please respond as soon as possible wiyh your reasoning on this as there are a few people counting on it Emma and myself as 2!!!

Louis, Agreed but I still think Bassplayer should dispute the debt as a course of action anyway. It at least goes to show that there IS a dispute and if that THEN needs to be fought through the unfair terms in consumer contract regulations 1999 the so bet it. The way I read this, its just as important to buy this guy some time. If the dispute fails then maybe AJGs advice of offering a token amount until he can pay it off in 1 go may well be the way forward! Gooders

Emma, Have PM'd you. The statutory 12 working days put them in default and you can stop payments legally until they produce the documents. I am going for another track. after the 12 wds they have 1 calandr month to get the info to you or THEY BREAK THE LAW and it is a CRIME! Now would you pursue a debt that when it gets to court you have to explain why you broke the law??? I think not, or if they did...I hope I have the front row seat!!!!! So say that they dont supply the docs after 12 wds + 1 cal month, not only is the debt totally unenforcable but that how, I believe I will then be eligable to claim everything I have already paid back!!! Not least get the arrears wiped!!!! Please feel free to read up on the CCA more if you want to check my info and I really hope that you haven't lost out. But in essence you are right they are in default and you can stop paying them,...this doesn't stop them finding the documents eventually and then being able to enforce the debt again!!! Gooders

snOOps!!!!!!!!!! Hello again, they are a great bunch aren't they!!!! Oh how Im going to enjoy making them squirm!!!! I got 2 responses back about them closing my account one with just a cheque and outright lies about having tried to inform me at an old address even though the detail were updated in Sept (closed Dec and they still managed to send the statements to the correct address) and two.....a letter say Mr Benny Higgins has thanked me for my letter and has told someone to get on with it!!! Phew So lets see what they say!!! btw heres a little ditty I sent to the CEOs Have you thought of writing to them direct, I have some addresses!!!! Gooders

Bassplayer88, right I think I get the jist of your problem. Really good to hear you have a parachute account!!! This will help you either way you choose to go. AJG's advise hear is sound and he is right if you can pay something you should, it will keep the wolves from the door and buy you time whilst you wait for your charges to be settled!! I would advise you to spend some time looking at this excellent thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloydstsb-successes/26172-mindzai-lucid-lloyds-tsb.html?highlight=mindzai It is long (no apologies tho) and will not only help because they, i believe, were in a similar situation to you but will give you some excellent pointers on the way. This includes some examples of the best letters I have ever read on the topic AND a truely excellent spreadsheet for detailing your charges and calculating interest (whatever rate you choose to go for). Take my advice give yourself a full day to fully ingest the information and processes in that thread and on this site so that you are comfortable with the arguments. Hope this helps and as ever if I had tip me a wink when I pass by or my scales. Gooders PS. Having thought about it a little more, I think there is an argument against AJG's advice. (sorry AJG mate, I stress it is only IMO) If you write to the branch/department dealing with your situation under the heading DISPUTED DEBT and outline in the letter why you are disputing the debt ..... the unlawful charges they levied etc. You are covered under the banking code so that they cannot continue the default or pass on the information to CRAs. This again will buy you time. But will by no means SOLVE the problem. from Mindzai's thread In relation to continued pressure after dispute passed Anyway mate, hope this gives you a few options. Will keep an eye on how you proceed but I cant recommend Mindzai's thread highly enough!!!!!

well just 2 responses from HBOS...... 1) repaid the amount that was in my account and that was it...apart from please phone this number should you need help. Phoned, surprise surprise no help and noone able to deal with my query!! 2) A response from a real person saying Mr Benny Higgins has asked her to look into the matter. Well thankyou Jayne Dungan on 01422 326547. Apartantly she works in the "Executive Office". Phoned she wasnt available but spoke to another lady that was. Explained that I had received a very impersonal letter from "Kathleen Power" and a refund. Did this mean the matter was closed as far as HBOS were considered....NO was the response. I explained that I thought this in no way reflected the costs and stress this issue has placed me in. Anyway long story short they are getting back to me. And hey if that doesn't work then FOS will be called in for the oppressed!!! What a shower these guys are. Roll on April 1 so I can take out my savings and re-direct them to where all my winnings can keep themselves warm,together at night! Gooders