Birmingham Midshires *WON*

[tonycee]

Hi. First post on Mortgage forum and need your opinions please..

Sent S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to Birm Mids on 13 Aug, and received reply 16 Aug, very quick in fairness.

I will post extracts from reply and welcome comments.

 

1...Please find enclosed prints of all transactions on your account for the last 6 years..

I thought i could claim for 12.

2...We have not dealt with this as a formal access request.

Why. I asked for one, should i ask them again.

3...You can obtain copies of statements at £20 per statement up to a max of £60.

Can they do this ?.

4...Also enclosed is an information sheet explaining charges.

Oh no there wasnt.

 

On the sheets provided there are many charges that i dont understand YET.

1... Assess Fees £ 25 - £ 100..........allways followed by....

2... Capitalisation £ 25 - £ 100......

 

I think i can work out that these were charges followed by additions to the account.

Can i claim back the charges, and therefore the Capitalisations ?.

 

There are also Fees & Caps for Solicitors charges, up to £ 500. Am i right in assuming i can claim back the VAT portion of this charge. (£75 on £500)

 

Any advice please, and should i go for full S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), will i need it ?.

Sorry to be so long winded.

Thanks for reading.

[zootscoot]

If you have got all the info on charges you need there is no need to do a full SAR. It might be sorth sending a non compliance in relation to anything pre 6 yrs.

 

They can charge for statements but if not if the info is requested under a SAR.

 

It might be worth asking for the leaflet explaining their fees or it might be worth having a look on their website which might detail the charges they apply.

 

Assess fee sound like it might be a penalty. Check that the capitisation is actually a fee and not just stating that that amount has been added to the account.

 

I'm not sure about the VAT.

 

All the best

 

 

Zoot

[tonycee]

Update...........

 

Decided on a full S.A.R - (Subject Access Request).

209 pages duly received.

Can understand most of the charges, but cant understand bits like,

 

Memo; Cacs Fee / FD / LS £ 50

Memo; Cacs Fee / ENF / LS £ 100

Memo; Cacs Fee / PRENF / LS £ 40

 

There are about 10 different ones.

 

These add up to about £ 1,500 without the unpaids etc.

 

Any solicitors fees are easy to identify, so its not them.

 

Also, when i redeemed this mortgage, the last 2 entries read,

 

10/04/2006 Redeem Account £ xxxxxxxxxxxx

11/04/2006 Pay Off £ xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

I dont want to give the figures, but the pay off was £ 8,618.57p higher than the redemption figure, with no reason given on statement.

 

Does anybody have any ideas before i kick off on BM again.

 

Thank You.

[WendyB]

Hi. Sorry can't be much use on the mortgage charges, but with regard to the VAT you could only claim back the VAT charged if you were vat registered and it was legitimate input tax as part of a business. As an individual you can't claim it back. They have to charge it out (their Output Tax) because they're vat registered. You can't claim it back because you're not vat reg. this is how the Revenue makes its money, when the vat charged gets to the end of the line and there's no -one to reclaim it, if you see what i mean.

[tonycee]

Hi. Sorry can't be much use on the mortgage charges, but with regard to the VAT you could only claim back the VAT charged if you were vat registered and it was legitimate input tax as part of a business. As an individual you can't claim it back. They have to charge it out (their Output Tax) because they're vat registered. You can't claim it back because you're not vat reg. this is how the Revenue makes its money, when the vat charged gets to the end of the line and there's no -one to reclaim it, if you see what i mean.

 

Thanks sweetheart..I know what you mean.

 

I am an individual who has been Vat registered for over 17 years, so i know how the system works. ( damned tax man )

 

My arguement is that they, Birm Mid, after claiming back their output tax on their solicitors invoice, should not be allowed to add this ( the VAT ) to my mortgage account, and charge interest on it for however many years are left.

 

The very least they should have done, is send me an invoice, including the VAT, to enable me to input/output.

 

Thanks again..

[WendyB]

Yes I see what you mean. I was a VAT inspector for 10 years. If what they're charging to you is a standard rated servicee then they have to charge to O/Tax onwards, unfortunately. You could try asking them for a VAT invoice and see what happens. or sneak it through as I/Tax in your ledger. Worst that could happen then is if you get a VAT visit it will get disallowed. If it relates to the business any nice VAT inspector ( I was!) might turn a blind eye to the fact that its not a "proper" tax invoice.

[Bona]

Just found this thread about VAT I am trying to get the VAT on my Solicitors bills refunded by the mortgage company reasonoing the bill is made from the Barrister to the Solicitor and then to the Mortgage Comapany I am not mentioned The Mortgage company pay it they can claim back the VAT as the invoice is to them but they dont they pass the cost on to me as extra on the account. At my costs hearing I brought this up and the Mortgage company said they could not claim it back as they has special rules I have tried and tried but cant find these rules so I can see if 1. its true and 2 . are there any loop holes

[WendyB]

These special rules could be something to do with "Partial Exemption" or to do with the fact that certain input tax cannot be claimed back under the Exemption rules. Also there's very odd rules to do with financial institutions as well. Like I said in my post above, someone at the end of the line has to be not allowed to claim it abck, if you see what i mean, otherwise the Government wouldn't actually be gaining any money, it would just be a money-go-round and no profit being made by the Treasury. Best thing you can do is speak to VAT enquiries 0845 010 9000. Sorry I can't be much use but this is quite complex

[tonycee]

Thank you . You have been very usefull.

I understand that its quite complex ( thats why i pay somebody to do it for me )

My circs are slightly diff in as much as i am VAT registered, and without going into detail on an open forum, i would have no trouble claiming it back as a legit exspense.

 

My arguement is that they should of sent me a VAT invoice and not added it to my account, and then charged interest untill the year dot.

[WendyB]

Tonycee I was replying to Bona's question in my above post, as he'd pm'd me. Sorry if I've confused the issue.

 

For what its worth I think you're right, you should have been given the opportunity to pay it outright, instead of paying interest on it forever. In fact I'm not sure if the VAT element can even be classed as a portion of the loan, and if it is outside the loan, then it should not be liable to interest. If I get chance I'll dig into it for you and see what I can come up with.

[tonycee]

Thanks Wendy.

Credit where credit is due, Birmingham Midshires have been very cooperative to say the least, IF you do the proper letters.

I have a draft letter to send off to them 2morrow, i then fly out Sunday for a well earned fortnight in the sun.

Please keep posting if you find anything, i will check out when i get back.

( Thailand before you ask )

Thanx..x..

[tonycee]

I am just about to put a claim into the system against Birmingham Midshires. I expect the claim to get stayed once they tell me to go away, and i submit my N1.

I want to get it in the system anyway.

I have listed some charges below that i am not sure whether i can claim back.

I welcome your opinions.

 

£25 Charge for arrears collection outbound activity-Phone call.

£40 Standard arrears letter reference SP2.

£50 Standard arrears letter reference FD-Formal demand for payment.

£100 Standard arrears letter reference COM-Repossession proceedings.

£50 Standard arrears letter reference CCAN-Repo proceedings adjourned.

£50 Standard arrears letter reference L50COM-New application for Court Hearing.

£50 Standard arrears letter SCORDER-Possession order granted.

£40 Standard arrears letter reference PRENF-Pre-enforcement notice.

 

The charges total £2,132.01p going back to 2003, so well worth the effort.

 

Thank you in advance..

[Penfold92]

I am just about to put a claim into the system against Birmingham Midshires. I expect the claim to get stayed once they tell me to go away, and i submit my N1.

I want to get it in the system anyway.

I have listed some charges below that i am not sure whether i can claim back.

I welcome your opinions.

 

£25 Charge for arrears collection outbound activity-Phone call.

£40 Standard arrears letter reference SP2.

£50 Standard arrears letter reference FD-Formal demand for payment.

£100 Standard arrears letter reference COM-Repossession proceedings.

£50 Standard arrears letter reference CCAN-Repo proceedings adjourned.

£50 Standard arrears letter reference L50COM-New application for Court Hearing.

£50 Standard arrears letter SCORDER-Possession order granted.

£40 Standard arrears letter reference PRENF-Pre-enforcement notice.

 

The charges total £2,132.01p going back to 2003, so well worth the effort.

 

Thank you in advance..

 

Hi TonyCee,

 

Why do you think your claim will be stayed? I thought these were going through fine?

 

Thanks,

 

Penfold

[tonycee]

I thought the courts were putting a blanket stay on "all" claims relating to "unlawful charges".

[Penfold92]

I thought the courts were putting a blanket stay on "all" claims relating to "unlawful charges".

 

 

I could be wrong, but they are not for credit card charges so why would they for Mortgage Charges. I am sure someone will be along soon to clarify for us,

 

Penfold

[Dangermouse]

Any update on this guys? I am also going to start a claim for mortgage 'arrears fees' & charges etc.

 

Unless popular wisdom suggests it is not a good idea.

 

 

Dangermouse

[Penfold92]

Any update on this guys? I am also going to start a claim for mortgage 'arrears fees' & charges etc.

 

Unless popular wisdom suggests it is not a good idea.

 

 

Dangermouse

 

 

Hi DM,

 

I am starting mine...just got another week to go then N1 form straight in...

 

Penfold

[tonycee]

If anybody has ANY comments, i would welcome them.

I would really like to get my Prelim done over the weekend.

Thank You.

[moronic]

Looks to me like you're in the clear : -

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mortgage-companies/116583-has-your-mortgage-claim.html

[tonycee]

Thank you for your reply. I am aware that mortgage claims should not be stayed, and therefore i want to proceed.

My question related to the charges applied in link 1 above.

[Penfold92]

Hi Tony the charges are fine, none are ERC's so that should not cause any problem. Also I am including my exit fee out of...well the hope they settle before court and so pay it anyway...

 

I put my POC's on my thread Amber homeloans if you want to have a look,

 

Penfold

[tonycee]

Thanks for your help..

 

Prelim letter for £ 2,122.00p printed and ready to go Monday 28th Jan.

 

S69 Interest works out at another £ 566.91p.

 

NOW the funs begins.

[zootscoot]

Hi Tony,

 

We've had a few successes with Birmingham Midshires. You can see a couple here although they are quite old, I've not seen any claims recently:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions-successes/42809-birmingham-midshires-you-will.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions-successes/16014-thunderpuss2k-birmingham-midshires-halifax.html

 

They are linked to Halifax and have the same legal team so it might be worth checking up on their tactics too.

 

Best of luck

 

Zoot

[Pen]

Hi Tony.

Nice to chat to you again after our discussion some time ago on another thread, I applied for all my statements and like you there is loads of chargers however I have yet to do anything about them for the simple reason I read somewhere that you could not claim litigation fee;s etc

Ok well I am going for it. what is the interest we claim on mortage fees do you know.

pen

[tonycee]

I received Birmingham Midshires response today offering me 50% of my "complaint".

 

I shall be accepting as part payment, and proceeding for the full amount.

 

 

Their letter states that i agreed to the T&Cs, their charges are fair, lawful, and do not breach the terms of the UTCCR legislation.

 

Well, they will have no problem proving that in court then.

 

My letter will go off over the next couple of days.

 

One thing that made me chuckle.

I have been given a case manager. In signing off on her reply, it states,

 

I work 09.00 to 15.30. Mon, Tues, and Thurs.

 

Nice work if you can get it.