Halifax Loan PPI

[pennypenny]

Hi all,

I am in the middle of looking into claiming PPI back off my A & L credit card and while reading through the PPI successes have been inspired by Hellhasnofury's threads.

Me and my O/H have a joint loan with the Halifax which was taken out on 22nd April 2003 over 5 years. We also have PPI on the loan though the terms and conditions were not explained to us nor were we told we could obtain cover elsewhere.

I still have the application of the loan and the amount we paid for the insurance was £2021.68 plus the total charge for credit was £526.52 which totals £2548.20. The Annual percentage rate is 9.9% and I would like to work out the interest on this but I cant get Vampiress' spreadsheets to work, it keeps saying The webpage cannot be found. Is there any other way of working it out?

How do I go about claiming this back. Do I need to send a SAR or can I go straight onto sending the prelim if I already know the PPI figures?

I have already sent a CCA request and they sent a copy of the loan application and another form which says Personal Loan Agreement - Unsecured at the top and under that it says CREDIT AGREEMENT REGULATED BY THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974, so I think that is all above board.

I would be grateful of any advice on this.

Thanks.

Penny:)

[hermanthegerman]

hi pennypenny,i have the same problem with vamps spreadsheets and have been mooching arond the site all morning looking for info.if i find any info will let you know.subscribing.

[pennypenny]

Thanks Herman, I've been trying to get on Vamps spreadsheets for a couple of weeks now, I think they've been down for a while.

[hellhasnofury]

Thanks Herman, I've been trying to get on Vamps spreadsheets for a couple of weeks now, I think they've been down for a while.

Hello Penny,

 

I believe the Vampress spreadsheets, which were excellent at working out the interest rate to the nearest 0.0% have gone and won't be returning.

 

The ones of the site only work it out to the nearest whole number so if you want 9.9 it comes up at 10:eek:

 

I am still looking around the web, there must be some somewhere.

 

Now for your claim 2 points really,

 

Can you be sure that you have all the info you need. If you send for a SAR, you may be surprised, what you don't know, and might be able to hit them with later:D But that is your choice.

 

now the credit agreement/application form. This bit I am a little confused about. Even if it does state this is a credit agreement regulated by blah, it has to have specfic prescribed terms for it to be enforcable. What is it your application form or a credit agreement:???:

 

Can you tell me what it says

[hellhasnofury]

Found this on the site.

 

It is for bank charges, but will work for the loan, just type the 9.9% in the notes page

 

Shout if you get stuck

 

http://members.aol.com/wolfcat451/Mi...poundSheet

[pennypenny]

Thany you so much for your replies Hellhasnofury.

Oh its a shame that Vamps spreadsheets wont be back cos I found them really easy to use but I think I've cracked the one you gave me. I used the daily interest one and I came up with:

PPI= £2548.20

Interest= £1282.28

Total= £3830.48

Does that look about right.

The loan was took out in 2003 over 5 years, so it will end in 2008.

Right, the credit agreement/Application they sent me has both mine and my o/h signatures on and is also signed by someone from the bank, we applied online but then had to go in the the local branch to sign. Then it says under "Financial Information" the loan amount then the total charge for credit for cash loan, then the insurance loan amount and then total charge for credit for insurance loan then total amount you pay for insurance loan. It then states the monthly payments. It has the annual percentage rate and monthly interest rate, the total loan amount and total charge for credit for the whole loan then it says total amount you pay. I thought it looked like an agreement but then again I've never seen one so I could be wrong.

I am going to get on with sending a SAR, is their a particular one I send to ask for everything or do I just send the normal one?

Thanks again for your help it is really appreciated.

Penny.

[hellhasnofury]

Hello Penny,

 

Maybe use this one, amend it to your details.

 

DATA PROTECTION ACT 1998

SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST

 

Dear Sir/Madam

Namexxxxxx

Account No xxxxx

I understand that you currently hold details of my personal and financial information within your internal record systems with regard to personal loan accounts

Please supply me with a complete list of transaction and charges relating to my history with your organization, INCLUDING Loans, payment protection insurance and other products. Alternatively a complete set of statements for the accounts or associated accounts is acceptable. I would be grateful if you would provide the following for ALL accounts or associated accounts I have held with your organization:

-Full copies of all contracts which you believe exist or have existed between myself and your organization, including true copies of any documents you hold in support of the same.

- A complete list of all transactions or statements relating to ALL of my Loan Accounts with your organization.

-Copies of all documents which include any of my personal information including copies of any contacts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.

-Full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email or any other format which you have entered into with any individual, organization or third party which contains my personal or financial, or which pertains to me.

- Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, the methods used to do so, including dates, certificates or references confirming details of destruction. Where you are unable to provide such certificates, please provide a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.

-Full hard copy print outs of my personal or financial information, held in a digital, magnetic or any other format which is held in any archives, backups or other storage devices / locations.

I enclose a cheque in the sum of £10 to cover your fee.

IF YOU UNABLE TO DEAL WITH THIS REQUEST, YOU SHOULD IMMEDIALTELY FORWARD IT TO THE PERSON WITHIN YOUR ORGANISATION RESPONSIBLE FOR DATA PROCECTION.

I look forward to hearing from you in the first instance of receipt.

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pennypenny]

Thanks for that, I will send that right away. Would it be best to wait for all the info to arrive or could I get on with sending a letter to them stating my interest in claiming PPI back? I can be very impatient.

[hellhasnofury]

Thanks for that, I will send that right away. Would it be best to wait for all the info to arrive or could I get on with sending a letter to them stating my interest in claiming PPI back? I can be very impatient.

 

Hello Penny,

 

I would be extremely wise to wait for the information to come, you might be surprised what acutually comes:eek:

 

I totally understand about being impatient, I am as well, but I have learnt that you do have to pace yourself, for the fight ahead.

 

You need to gather all the amo and start of on the right footing. You cant ask for x and then when the infor comes you should have asked for y.

 

As soon as you send for your SAR, you will alert them to the fact you are looking into something, so they will be prepared.

 

The bottom line is that this company as with many other, do not want to give you your back and will deny mis-selling 100%, so you have to follow a format to get it back. If you are unfortunate and have to take this to court, you can show the judge that you have been more than fair in your part.

 

Send all correspondence by recorded delivery, keeping the stubs and all correspondence in a file.

 

During the time you have to wait, keep yourself up to speed reading the diferent threads in this forum and read any info posted by the financial services authority and the office of fair trading. Its mindblowing:-x

 

If it comes soon, post to let us know and if you need help or advice, just ask:D

[pennypenny]

Thanks Hellhasnofury, will do. SAR is being sent recorded delivery today and in the mean time I will read up on it as much as I can.

[pennypenny]

Letter is printed out and ready to send.

I have been having a think about this loan and the agreement they sent me.

After a terrible year financially last year, mainly due to bank charges, we got behind with payments on this loan, they harrassed us continually by phone, sometimes even on a sunday, until we agreed to payments of £70 a month. They wouldnt accept any less.

I eventually found this site (thankfully) and decided to send a CCA to Blair, Oliver and Scott who were dealing with it. It was sent on 4th April this year, it was signed for on the 5th April which in my calculations gives them until 23rd April to reply. I received their agreement which was dated 30th April from the Halifax, not from Blair, Oliver and Scott which was where I sent it.

So after thinking this was all above board I gave them a call and they were as nice as pie (not like before with their threatening sunday morning phonecalls) They asked me what I could afford per month where as before they told me what I had to pay, and they also said if I could manage to get hold of part of the money we could pay the loan off. The amount they suggested was about £2000 less than what we owed. Now do I smell something fishy? It just seems strange to me that they would be so reasonable when they werent before.

Anyway, just thought I would share that as my mind has been ticking over with possible reasons why, maybe its not a proper agreement, maybe the people at B,O and S have had personality transplants, I dunno.

Penny.

[pennypenny]

Oh, and also I just remembered, at one point the Halifax at tried to get us to refinance the loan and take out a new one to cover the arrears but I said no as I want rid of them not drag it out longer.

[hellhasnofury]

Oh, and also I just remembered, at one point the Halifax at tried to get us to refinance the loan and take out a new one to cover the arrears but I said no as I want rid of them not drag it out longer.

 

Hello Penny,

 

Can you post a copy of your ca on the thread, it would be interesting to see:eek:

[pennypenny]

Hi Hellhasnofury,

I will post it tomorrow as I am totally useless with things like that and I will need to get my daughter to help me. It's pretty bad when you need help from a teenager.

[pennypenny]

Here is what Halifax sent me, it took me a while but managed in the end, hope it works ;

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pennypenny]

Hi, any ideas on the agreement. The PPI was signed by my O/H but at the time we were not advised about any other options such as taking out cover elsewhere or if it would cover us at all. Does it look like a credit agreement or an application?

Penny.

[hellhasnofury]

Hi, any ideas on the agreement. The PPI was signed by my O/H but at the time we were not advised about any other options such as taking out cover elsewhere or if it would cover us at all. Does it look like a credit agreement or an application?

Penny.

 

Hello Penny,

 

The ca looks kosha to me, but that is only my opinion. Their main arguement will be that you can clearly see that yourO/H signed and agreed.

 

The fact that they did not inform you that you could have taken out another cheaper policy elsewhere is I am afraid a non-starter. They are not obliged to do this as they are a business and profit driven.

 

Your best arguement would be that you feel that the policy was sold as standard, no ppi, no loan if you feel that was the case. You were mis-lead into agreeing to have, without a clear understanding that it was actually suitable for your needs.

 

You have no become aware to these matters after the coverage by the fsa and the oft

 

The sale of payment protection insurance – results of follow-up thematic work

[pennypenny]

Thanks for having a look Hellhasnofury, thats pretty much what I thought, about the CCA looking kosher. I just wondered what made them so helpful after I received it.

I'll have a good read through the link you gave me.

Thanks again,

Penny.

[hellhasnofury]

Thanks for having a look Hellhasnofury, thats pretty much what I thought, about the CCA looking kosher. I just wondered what made them so helpful after I received it.

I'll have a good read through the link you gave me.

Thanks again,

Penny.

 

Hello Penny,

 

There is something about the total charge for credit, I feel they are not allowed to do:shock:

 

Pleas read one of the very knowledgeable Peter Bards post

 

It is in the Agreement Enforceabilty threads

 

Total Charge for Credit

 

I think many of who have been working with the above for a while forget how difficult it was to get our heads around this in the beginning so what I have attempted to do here is an introduction to the subject.

 

I have found that incorrect TCCs can be responsible for a large percentage of agreement being incorrectly executed and, in many cases the cause of unenforceability, especially in older credit agreements.

 

When you repay a loan whether it be credit card, fixed sum, hire purchase or whatever you agree to pay it back in instalments over a period of time.

 

If you look at what you repay you will see it falls into distinct categories

1) The amount you borrowed

2) The deposit (in the case of hire purchase to buy a car for instance)

3) Any charges that you had to pay in order to get the loan.

 

The sum of the above form the TAP (Total Amount Payable)

 

The last category (3) consists of the Total Charge for credit.

 

TOTAL CHARGE for CREDIT consists of any monies that you contractually agreed to pay in order to procure the loan. It Includes;

 

• The interest charged on the loan
  
• Any setting up fees charged by the creditor
  
• Any insurance that was conditional on you getting the loan (if you didn’t buy they wouldn’t give you the loan)
  
• The final purchase element on a hire purchase agreement
  
• Any brokerage charges
  
• Any attached agreements necessary to the purchase of the loan

(An exhaustive list of charges that should be included in the TCC are contained in the TCC regulations 1980)

 

The consumer Credit Act 1974 section 9(4) says that,” (4). For the purposes of this Act, an item entering into the total charge for credit shall not be treated as credit even though time is allowed for its payment.”

 

So for a start we see that if one of these items appeared as part of the amount loaned it would contravene the Act.

 

Unenforceability

 

Apart from breaching the act there are other consequences for the creditor who gets this wrong. The main one is the amount loaned or credit, this as you know is a prescribed term and if missing or incorrect would render all agreements made before the 6th of April 2007 unenforceable.

 

If even one of the items listed above where to end up contained the amount loaned (Credit) then the total figure would be incorrect by that amount, and render the agreement unenforceable.

 

 

APR

 

Lastly I better mention the TCC in relation to the APR quoted on the agreement.

The perceived cost the loan can be calculated by using;

The amount you loaned,

The time taken to repay it and

The amount of interest you pay

This would give you the interest quoted in the agreement, however this would not include the total cost of the loan as it would leave out all the other charges that you have had to pay in order to get it.

The APR calculates its value by using the TCC instead of just the interest thus including all the charges and giving a truer picture of what the loan actually costs you

 

As you can imagine there are many other aspect to the TCC that I have not mentioned here but there are extremely good OFT pamphlets on the subject on there website and the full low-down is contained within the TCC regs 1980. I have not seen these available on line and had to buy mine maybe someone reading this knows a better source.

[pennypenny]

Thanks for the info on the total charge for credit Hellhasnofury.

I sent the SAR last monday but it still hasnt been signed for nor have they cashed the £10 cheque yet so I guess I'm in for a long wait, that's the bit I hate but I suppose I'm used to it by now.

[hellhasnofury]

Thanks for the info on the total charge for credit Hellhasnofury.

I sent the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) last monday but it still hasnt been signed for nor have they cashed the £10 cheque yet so I guess I'm in for a long wait, that's the bit I hate but I suppose I'm used to it by now.

 

Hello Penny,

 

Have you checked on the post office website to see if it has been delivered. If you are unsure send it again, or you might wait forever as they never got it.

 

Just a thought:eek:

[pennypenny]

I checked on Royal mail track and trace and it says try again later but it's been a week since I sent it. Maybe I should have sent it special delivery instead of recorded delivery.

[hellhasnofury]

I checked on Royal mail track and trace and it says try again later but it's been a week since I sent it. Maybe I should have sent it special delivery instead of recorded delivery.

 

Hello Penny,

 

Maybe wait till tomorrow after the bank holiday weekent and see if it is updated. If not, you could sent another, but sods law, the will have it cash the cheque and then cash the other one:-o

[pennypenny]

Thats true, the bank holiday might have slowed it down a bit, I'll check again tomorrow. That would be just my luck for me to send another SAR and then for them to cash both my cheques:rolleyes:

[pennypenny]

Well, Halifax never signed for my SAR but I know they definately got it because they sent a letter on the 3rd of September saying they will aim to provide me with the information requested as quickly as possible and that they are experiencing a high number of similar requests (I bet they are) and it may take a little time to process my request but I should receive a responce within 40 days. So the 40 day deadline will be up on the 28th of September.