MBAN Zero balance shocker!!

[GamekeeperToPoacher]

Hi all,

 

I am confused.

 

I sent for a CCA to Debt Clear Recoveries and Collections Limited in March 2009 and have just received a reply from MBNA.

 

Now if I may digress slightly, I understand from a Google search which incidentally led directly back to CAG, that this is the threatogram arm of MBNA.

 

MBNA sent me an alleged CCA which is, in fact the application form completed at the service station in 2001 which is here front and here back. I have never seen the back before!

I do not think that it is enforceable as it has no signatures from the company, and under the important data protection bit it refers to 'using personal information as described in condition 11' and overleaf 11 refers to 'not increasing interest rates on cash advances'.

Also they have enclosed a copy of terms and conditions which are different from the originals, which I still have, and when issued were on a seperate document. Perhaps someone will comment please.

 

 

Now I did receive a DN and I believe that it is wrong date wise - perhaps someone will comment please.

 

I have not received a TN

 

In addition they have sent a credit card statement - from MBNA, with a ZERO balance. So according to MBNA I do not owe them anything.

 

Now I am really confused - it can't be that easy can it?

 

GK

[babybear39]

Can you scan and post, minus personal details, what you've received from them please?

[payback68]

Can you scan and post, minus personal details, what you've received from them please?

 

BB, GK has posted the details under the hyperlinks;)

 

Regards.

[babybear39]

Oops, so they are...

 

IMO it's unenforceable as the 2 pages do not relate to each other in any way. Basically they've sent an application form without all the prescribed terms and an unrelated page of T & Cs.

[diamondgirl]

Certainly doesn't seem to be enforceable. I know there has been a few posts recently when CCA has been sent without a signature that the creditors are saying they don't have to send a signed one.

Has the DCA said they've bought it?

I don't want to dampen your spirits here but if they've sold it perhaps thats why they say zero balance because you don't in effect owe them anything.

So I think if it was me I would send the prove it letter to them, sit back have a drink and wait for the response.

DG:)

[cashins]

Now I did receive a DN and I believe that it is wrong date wise - perhaps someone will comment please.

 

 

Yup.

 

9th Jan is a Friday so, Sat & Sunday don't count, 1st Class post would mean you get it Tues 13th. Ooooops.

 

Zero balance statement must mean account is terminated.

 

david

[angry cat]

No!

 

An intelligent guess and knowing MBNA so very well...

I would say that they have charged it off.

 

Expect to received a letter from some goon, stating that the account has been sold to them.

 

MBNA, can't do much with a LEMON.

 

AC

[cashins]

No!

 

An intelligent guess and knowing MBNA so very well...

I would say that they have charged it off.

 

Expect to received a letter from some goon, stating that the account has been sold to them.

 

MBNA, can't do much with a LEMON.

 

AC

 

Could be, or on current form it could be a letter from Optima or Restons, acting for MBNA, demanding the full amount or else.

 

David

[GamekeeperToPoacher]

Can you scan and post, minus personal details, what you've received from them please?

 

Hi BB,

 

I will scan in all the letters and post ASAP.

 

My argument is that if Debt Clear Recovery are in house then MBNA have not sold the debt on and it has a zero balance so even if they sell it on today it still has a zero balance.

 

GK

[angry cat]

MBNA have to show the balance as zero, when it is charged off!

[cymruambyth]

Hi have you looked at this link http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/609-mbna-agreementsapplication-forms ? It's a collection of MBNA forms and their failings complied by citizenB

[babybear39]

I agree with the previous posters in that the zero balance means it's charged off and terminated. They should have sent you a notice of termination.

 

We still need to your DN though.

[GamekeeperToPoacher]

Hi BB,

 

It is up there ^^^^^^^^^^^^ post one DN is hyperlink

 

 

GK

[babybear39]

Please exscuse me today but I'm up to my eyes in moving house...

 

DN looks ok to me but I'm not an expert.

[IdaInFife]

Dn dates are wrong, what a shame,

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/170345-tale-dodgy-dn.html

 

 

ida x

[angry cat]

GtP, you need to remove your name from that DN!

 

AC

[GamekeeperToPoacher]

Hi All,

 

I have not received a TN as yet.

 

I have received letters from Debt Clr .... Ltd saying

3rd Feb 2009 MBNA EB have passed your unpaid account to us for collection at Address 1

3rd Feb Your total debt of£XXXXXX has been referred to Debt C .....Ltd at another address

3rd Feb Your total debt of£XXXXXX has been referred to Debt C .....Ltd at Address 1

 

13th February we have Opportunity to be debt free letter to address 1 which I believe breaks lots of codes of practise.

 

 

Then 4th March Intention To Commence Legal Proceedings to address 1 where client name is MBNA

 

Then 9th March I wrote template CCA 78 letter from my current address.

 

Today I received from my address 1 the reply to my CCA request.

 

Covering Letter from Gail Powell dated 2nd June saying "we enclose copy of CCA (original and current) inc applicable terms and conditions and your most recent statement of account" etc etc

 

Then 2 sided Request your credit card form front and back

 

Then 4 pages of T&C which are recent ones ie £12 for charges etc BUT the condition 11 is incorrect and it is unsigned!

 

I still have the original T&Cs from 2001 and there the condition 11 is correct but this was a separate document and not within the four corners od the agreement. I have never had an executed document otherwise it would be here with the rest.

 

Anyway then I have my statement page 1 of 2 and page 2 of 2 now page 2of 2 says that my payment due date is 15th April and the payment is £0!

 

Finally I have another generic page of info about how to pay etc.

 

Sorry it is so long but I am of the opinion that as the debt has not been sold on and the balance is zero I owe nothing.

 

GK

[GamekeeperToPoacher]

GtP, you need to remove your name from that DN!

 

AC

 

 

Many thanks AC - No matter how one tries one is unable to get the staff these days;)

 

GK

[Reader]

Subbing with interest

[underdog13]

Hi GTP,

 

did you keep the envelope the DN arrived in? MBNA tend to send DNs out by second class post.

[landy_alert]

Hi GTP:)

 

OH has an account with MBNA in a similar situation (in fact his CCA is almost identical to yours and can be found in Citb's library of MBNA docs).

 

His account has been charged off and assigned to a DCA (Apex) - we first knew about this when MBNA sent a list of transactions and charges as their feeble response to a SAR and the last entries involved a zero balance and some wording we didn't understand at the time.

 

He also received a DN - again same as yours, not enough days allowed - and then he got two letters in the same envelope - one purporting to be from MBNA, the other from Apex stating that his account had been assigned to them. This letter referred to an account number which only bore a passing similarity to OH's, but again apparently this is what happens when an account is sold on - the DCA allocates their own account number.

 

We sent an account in dispute letter initially to the DCA and apart from a couple of follow up letters demanding the balance in full, we have heard nothing more from Apex.

 

We did, however, receive a refund of charges from MBNA - which left me gobsmacked, frankly:eek:

 

I had opted to go down the reclaim of charges route as I had been advised by other Caggers that his agreement was probably enforceable, so thought getting the charges back was probably the best way for us to go. Now you have been advised that a virtually identical CCA to OH's is possibly unenforceable, I'm wondering if we did the right thing!

 

I am subscribing and will follow your progress with interest!

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

[GamekeeperToPoacher]

Hi Landy and Underdog,

 

I now seems to get even more curious thanks to Underdogs question.

 

I have looked at the DN again (sadly I did not keep the envelope as I was not CAG savvie at the time) but it says that I am in default of clause 8 with respect to not making the agreed payment BUT clause 8 on the 'agreement' back that they have sent me - see post 1 refers to APR.

 

So what is going on now?

 

Also I have not heard from anyone about this account till I received the info in post 1 whcih was sent to my previous address despite me supplying my current address - curiouser and curiouser.

 

I now have to decide whether to go SAR or CPR I suspect the latter butthings are getting complicated here as I have other accounts to play with.

 

Oh on this one I was sensible enough to reject PPI

 

GK

[babybear39]

If they're threatening or have threatened you with court action use the CPR route as it's quicker and doesn't cost you anything.

[GamekeeperToPoacher]

Hi BB,

 

It is really me threatening them with court!

 

I am seriously thinking of going for them especially as I am even more confused by the recent mail.

 

I have a statement with a zero balance as shown above but they also included this letter which would indicate that as of 25th May this is a live account despite a DN on 9th Jan which refers to a breach of para 8 of the agreement which refers to APR :confused:

 

Perhaps a DJ will sort it out?

 

GK

[babybear39]

I've seen on a thread here somewhere that a DJ looked at the statement showing a zero balance and ruled in favour of the defendant but I can't remember where