shredder10 & Cabot

[shredder10]

Hi all recieved this from cabot today, after i asked for a credit agreement.

Is this a proper agreement or have i got a leg to stand on. Any help with

this would be much appreciated thanks in advance. shredder10

 

 

[42man]

I'm not an expert on these but has it been signed by the original creditor ?? (I can't see if they have deleted it or not).....be patient though as somebody will come along who is better qualified than me....it looks initially like an application form...see this below from Peter Bard...

 

CCA RULES FOR PRESCRIBED TERMS

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT

8.2 What if prescribed terms are missing or incorrect?

 

s127(3) provides that the court may not make an enforcement order unless a document containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor – see Q1.21.

 

If therefore any of the prescribed terms is missing, or incorrect, the agreement is not enforceable against the debtor, and the court is precluded from making an enforcement order.

 

 

8.3 What are the prescribed terms?

 

The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 are as follows:

 

* amount of credit – see Q8.

 

* credit limit – see Q8.5

* repayments – see Q8.9.

* rate of interest – see Q8.6

 

Sch 6 was not amended by the 2004 Regulations.

They need to keep documents such as a copy of the agreement for 6 years after the closure of the account to comply with money laundering legislation.

IS MY AGREEMENT ENFORCEABLE( Via section 127(3) CCA1974)

PRESCRIBED TERMS FOR THE PURPOSES OF SECTIONS 61(1)(0) AND 127(3) OF THE

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 Taken from sced.6(1983/1553) regulations

(If you just want to find out, skip the bits in between the stars it’s just some extra information)

 

**What do we mean by unenforceable?

In the Consumer Credit Act section 127 there is a provision for making an agreement unenforceable if it does not contain certain pieces of information.

Subsections 1,2,3,4 state which pieces of information these are, and everything mentioned there must be included within the body of the agreement, if one is missing the agreement is unenforceable.

 

How does unenforceable differ from enforceable with a court order only?

When an agreement is unenforceable it means that the court or the judge cannot make a ruling on it. The court cannot make it enforceable.

When an agreement is enforceable only by ruling of the court it means that the agreement can be stopped by the debtor but the court has the power to re-instate it and allow the credit to continue to enforce.**

 

The Pescribed Terms are these

 

A Amount of credit

A term stating the amount of credit

 

B Repayments

A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-

(a) Number of repayments;

(b) Amount of repayments;

© Frequency and timing of repayments;

(d) Dates of repayments;

(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

 

C Rate of interest

A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement

D Credit limit

This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

--------------------------

 

Which of these applies to you depends on the type of agreement you have?

 

For a Running Account (credit card) agreement

 

BC and D Apply

 

For a Restricted Use Debtor Creditor Supplier

• Where the dealer is the supplier and the creditor is the one providing the finance.
  
• The money can only be used for the purpose it is given.
  
• There is no interest on the purchase (the cash price is the same as the total price)
  
• And there is no advance payment

A is applicable

 

For a fixed Sum Credit Agreement

A conventional credit agreement with none of the above restrictions

 

A and B apply

 

For a Hire Agreement

 

B is Applicable

 

This paper only covers section 127(3) of the Act agreements can also be unenforceable by contravention of sections 1 and4 this will be the subject of the next paper.

Please note that these Prescribed terms where not changed in any way by the 2004/1482 Ammendments although the form in which they appear on the agreement was. Subsection127(3) was repealed on the 6th of April 2007 so that unenforceability due to 127(3) will only apply to agreemens executed before that date.

[shredder10]

Thanks 42man, this was all i recieved no mention of interest rates , terms and conditions just this one sheet of paper. But it clearly says credit agreement at the top, this is what worried me.

[42man]

It would seem that this is NOT an enforceable agreement Shredder !!!.....but again I am not an expert....

[42man]

Thank you for your response to my request under the Consumer Credit Act section 78.

 

I am pleased to see that you confirm this as a true copy of the original agreement executed by yourselves on the 26th July 2007.

 

As you must realise this agreement does not conform to sections 60(1) and 61(1) of the Consumer credit Act and is therefore unenforceable under section 127(3) of the same act.

 

 

You had until (date here) to provide me with the true copy I requested. After that date you entered into default of my request. Whilst the account is in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, make any further charges to the account or pass the account to anybody else. I would also like to note that as from the (12+2 working days + 30 calendar days) it becomes a criminal offence.

Please note you may also consider this letter a statutory notice under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies including any defaults. Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’, you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you fail to respond within 21 days, I will expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

[shredder10]

I will send a letter to them suggesting it is not a properly executed agreement and see what answer i get.

It will bide me some time while i sort out my finances, thanks again.

[42man]

Sorry you'll need to edit it to suit.....

[shredder10]

Thanks again i will keep you posted.

[shredder10]

Hi all after a few good months i recieved a letter today from cabot.Its good news,they say they are not going to persue me because they cant get the proper executed agreement from argos and untill such time they will not be bothering me again

[42man]

Excellent result Shredder !!! i'm really pleased....just keep a heads up in case they try and sell the debt on to Red or Lowells.....Let us know if you hear anything more....

[42man]

Might also be worth checking your credit file also in a months time....

[shredder10]

Thanks 42man for your help it seems the no terms conditions and repayment details and % rate missing from the so called agreement cannot be found by argos. But i must say believe it or not cabots last lot of letters have been very polite.

[louise1111]

slightly hijacking your thread! sorry!

in august 07 received letter from moocroft re argos card. cca'd them , they replied with exactly same form as shredder has posted but in box for 'office use only' it is empty. sent letter back - not enforceable etc. and heard no more.

today, i received automated voice call to call bcw with ref no. was curious, so phoned and it is for argos card. told them about moorcroft and debt should not be passed on. she said to contact argos.

my question is, should i now cca argos or send a 'bog off' letter?

thanks

[DCA-KING]

Hi i read (YOUR APPLACATION FOR A ARGOS CARD)

looks like a applacation form but still no term

regards DK

[louise1111]

thanks, thats how i see it - but do i contact argos?

[shredder10]

Hi lou i had no contact with argos whatsoever, so i would wait for a letter to drop through the door then take it from there.

[louise1111]

thanks shredder. have had no letter from bcw - so when/if i receive one, i will cca and start process all over again!

[haiddon]

hI,

 

I received the same credit agreement as shredder. I also received several copies of previous statements which has the typical 27.9% APR but not the APR given to me.

 

It also says that the estimated interest next month is not available on each of them and there is a section in each of them that says 1 this is a reproduction of a previously produced statement but in our new format; the data shown is correct.

 

I'm gonna go ahead and refute this....anyone agree?

[shredder10]

Hi haid,

I had no statements sent to me so im not sure how you stand with that, send the letter that 42man has posted in previous posting and wait for the reply.

[shredder10]

Hi everybody guess what, they are back the return of catbutt. And they have used the same letters/unenforcable cca as before. Ah well here we go again:cool:

[shredder10]

Hi all was just wondering has anybody been taken to court by cabot using the dodgy cca/application form thingy that argos card services give them, bearing in mind its not an enforcable agreement because of missing terms, credit limit, interest rates etc.

[rory32]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/115280-useful-information.html

[shredder10]

Thanks for the link very good reading;)

[creditcardmug]

Hi, when it comes to a court claim, cabot are no different to any other creditor.

 

They still have to have an enforceable agreement.

 

Is this in court yet?, if so i suggest you start a new thread in the legal forum and give some details.

[shredder10]

Hi there no its not gone that far yet just wanted to familiarise myself with the details etc, Just in case;)