Can i help?

[CAGisforME]

Firstly profuse apologies for a very long post, but this has REALLY got up my nose!!

 

I think there are various points to be discussed here and the first is:

 

1. How exactly does a bank customer get hold of a customer advisor such as yourself?

 

It's all very well saying "I'm nice, I'll help, I can tell you how to avoid getting charged etc", but, unfortunately Ethical, it's blatently obvious from all the issues raised on this site, that getting through to some who gives a damn is difficult to nigh on impossible.

 

Perhaps you could help our site members by telling us EXACTLY who to ask for when they need this kind of help? That, I think would be a good start.

 

 

2. Blanket Stops.

 

I am a retired Banker (fairly senior) and worked for many years in various departments of the Bank, including a couple of departments designed to "help" customers who were having monetary problems.

 

Yes, we could advise a blanket stop of DDs. That doesn't stop the person owing the money to the Company and often starts floods of letters from them DEMANDING payment and a re-instatement of the mandate. Whilst a blanket stop DOES stop all DDs for the time being, it also makes it difficult (and often more expensive as some companies charge higher if you aren't paying by DD) for someone already having financial problems to ensure they pay their monthly living expenses.

 

Remember, by the time people get to this stage they are already in trouble and often need careful counselling and PROPER debt management from an independant body (I ALWAYS recommended CCCS) and NOT from one of the bodies with a vested interest (ie the Bank) ALL the person's creditors need to be managed, not just the one holding all the cards (or should that be all the money?)

 

3. "To be honest, of the 50-60 posts here, only 3 have been close to what i joined for. I don't care about law, or benefit conditions, that's not my job."

 

Yes, I'm afraid it IS your job and you set yourself up here.

 

As an employee of a Bank you have duty to act within the law. One would also argue that you ETHICALLY have a duty to inform your employers if they are acting outwith the law and refusing a customer's access to the Government Benefits to which they are LEGALLY entitled.

 

Were you aware of this? Who did you report it to within the bank? Did you follow it up? What is your bank's position on this?

 

If you are advising customers on how to deal with their bank charges you should at least ensure that you know the law with regards to the person's income. The bank cannot LAWFULLY touch people's income based and child-based Benefits, it's the law and you, your employers and all the other banks cannot run away from that.

 

4. "Again i'm sorry for your experience, if the debit balance was caused by someone not closing your account and daily charges accruing, i would have got rid of everything and closed the account."

 

Well, I'm sure that is of great comfort to everyone this has happened to. If ONLY they had got YOU on the telephone everything would have been alright!

 

What would be more useful, if you are REALLY here to help, would be if you could advise people on HOW they can get these dormant account closed and the charges written off. I know of no definitive answer to this, but as you have set yourself as an expert in the subject, you will no doubt be able to draft a letter that the site can put in the library, to ensure that everyone in this position has access to the correct procedure.

 

5. "I paid by card and was charged when it came out of my account, why let them take it when the money wasn't there". I know why and i know how to stop it.

 

Tell everyone then, why don't you? If you are taling about explaining ear-marked funds, or changing the type of card, removing any anticipatory o/d limit or explaining ledger balances, then why not just say so?

 

6. "I was refused an overdraft and then i got charged because i couldn't pay my bills". I know why and i know how to stop it.

 

Blanket Stops again? I've explained why that won't be the answer. Temporary o/ds. Why not just give us your knowledgeable answer?

 

7. "I was told when i opened the basic bank account i coulndn't go overdrawn and here i am overdrawn". I know why and i know how to stop it.

 

DDs? Earmarked funds? Clearing process? Bounced cheque? Allowable Uncleared Limit? The list is endless, so why not just tell us your answer?

 

8. "I have received a letter saying my account will be closed". I know why and i know how to stop it.

 

Ok. I'll ask nicely, please impart some of your supposed vast knowledge of the banking systems and processes and help everyone on this site ensure that they never have a problem with their Bank ever again.

 

 

 

 

Look, I'm sure that, originally, you signed up to the site with the nicest of intentions and have found yourself woefully out of your depth. My advise would be stop digging the hole you are in, kindly thank everyone for passing you the shovel and admit that you can't help much more than anyone else here who was or still is employed in Banking.

 

Getting "sniffy" with certain posters, choosing which posters you will or will not respond to and pointing out you are using your own free time will not cut the mustard here. We are all here of our own volition and can, within the site rules, and as faceless forum posters, say what we like. You don't have to like it. If you can back up what you have said with hard facts then everyone will sit up and listen.

 

Agony Aunts (or Uncles) we don't need I'm afraid.

 

[CAGisforME]

The Power.

 

The short answer to your question is that MOST banks will not give you a "Regular" bank account until your credit score improves, or, if you open a cash-card type account with them and keep it in "good standing" for at least a few months.

 

Some banks will offer this, others won't. The best place to get advice is probably NOT from bank staff, who will only know the rules from their own employers point of view and rules, but from friends or forums such as this. Perhaps a question in the "general" forum?

 

[CAGisforME]

*smirks*

 

(and wishes I had refreshed my page before responding further!)

 

I had a sneaky feeling that my post (and others asking about the law and charges etc) might illicit this sort of response.

 

IF the CAG have asked them to leave then surely their account wouldn't be able to post anymore? This is a question. I don't know for sure.

 

I think that it's unlikely Ethical can help any more than anyone else on here, unfortunately they set themselves up for a fall and several posters (who are perfectly within their rights to do so) have provided them with the push required.

 

As retired bank staff myself I have always tried to help, and have, as yet, never come in for any type of abuse, name calling etc etc.

 

But then I did not set myself up as an expert, despite evidently having a LOT more experience that Ethical.

 

Forums are for people to express their feelings, ask questions etc. This forum, like many others across the internet, allows the posters to be nameless and faceless and therefore ANYONE can claim to be an expert in ANYTHING. Anyone who chooses to take the answers here or any other forum as "gospel" without taking further expert advice, is unwise.

[CAGisforME]

He seemed t very authoritive to me

 

I'm afraid s/he may have sounded very authoritative to many people.

 

Sounding authoritative and BEING authoritative (and informative) are two different things.

 

However, s/he was/is NEITHER and therefore I personally think it's best they don't post "information" that might lead people up proverbial garden paths.

 

[CAGisforME]

Indeed Kennythecelt

 

I DO hope that Ethical hasn't been posting on the forum from work! If not then how on earth could his/her employment contract be in jeopardy?

 

 

[CAGisforME]

Hi The Power,

 

I'm told by friends that the Nationwide Flex Account is worth a try, although I can't personally recommend them as I have no accounts with them.

 

I would be careful not to apply to too many at once, as it may affect your score, showing multiple applications.

 

For the time being I understand you have a Co-operative Account? Is it not working for you? The reason I ask is that often it's tempting, after being in debt, or having problems managing credit, to want to "re-instated" back to the way things were, with a "regular account" etc, but it's not necessarily the way forward.

 

Perhaps you could share with us why the account you have doesn't fulfil your needs? That way people on here may have other ideas that could help, or again, recommend an account that would perhaps suit you better.

 

[CAGisforME]

As I said before in my other post, it's often the case that we can only speak from our own employers rules or our own experience!

 

Hence I suggested Nationwide as a friend with adverse credit had found them refreshingly sympathetic. However indebtstudent has the inside knowledge, so that one's out.

 

All I can suggest therefore is to tk check sites such as this one: Basic Bank Accounts, Open a Basic Bank Account, Apply for a Basic Bank Account

 

and perhaps contact the banks by email to ask what their criteria is to move to a "regular" account after a period of good standing.

 

Meanwhile I would consider using Internet or Telephone banking to pay bills, rather than over the counter. It's not only less time consuming but it gives you a good audit trail, as a cheque does.

 

As you say, you have the Crapital One card and can therefore at least pay hotel bills etc. (Just watch them carefully - from my experience, whilst they will give a card to "anyone", they will charge you for breathing if they can!)

 

Sorry I can't help further on this particular question.

[CAGisforME]

When a customer applys for an overdraft they are given a limit, why is it you can go over this limit ? surely when you reach your LIMIT then your account should decline payment not alow you to go over which then allows the bank to charge £25 in my case ?

 

Whilst I personally agree with you the banks will put up several arguments and reasoning on this particular question.

 

Firstly it differs from bank to bank, customer to customer and account to account.

 

However, the rule of thumb is that the "limit" is given to you and you know about it therefore it's your responsibility to stop spending when you get there. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that cheques you have forgotten about (and that were guaranteed), DDs etc can't come out after you have reached the limit.

 

Some customers will find that everything bounces after they reach their limit, others will find the items paid, others will find they've been charged for the priviledge of either of these eventualities.

 

If you are say with a couple of pounds of your limit and a DD comes out taking you overdrawn then they can do two things. 1. Bounce it and charge you or 2. Pay it and charge you, or, if you are a "good" customer, pay it and not charge you!

 

That's the way they see it and it comes down to it being the Account Holder's responsibility to run the account within it's limits.

 

That said often "good" customers have what is known as an "anticipatory limit", ie an "allowable" limit over and above the agreed limit that they know about. This is normally calculated given the account holder's good standing with the bank, their income, their normal expenses, how often they have been over limit etc.

 

Therefore what the customer THINKS is their limit is NOT necessarily the case and the bank may continue to allow payments of debits even though the account holder is over their limit.

 

Again it's up to the account holder to check and to ensure that they stay within their limit.

 

As indebstudent points out, an ATM may pay out when you are over your limit, it may not.

 

To further complicate matters there is also the subject of uncleared funds to consider. SOME banks/accounts allow the customer to drawn against cheques that have not cleared. But if they bounce, the customer is overdrawn.

 

Also SOME banks allow you access on a Saturday to funds not actually physically in the account until the Monday. Again, if anything happens in the meantime the account will go overdrawn.

 

As you will see from all of the above, there is no hard and fast answer. Other than writing down everything you pay in and out of the account and working within the balance you know you have "available" (ie after cheques you've written out etc) as opposed to what the ATM or online banking shows to be your balance.

 

Re-reading this I only hope I've explained this properly!

 

[CAGisforME]

You are of course absolutely right KTC !

 

(I just thought that might confuse the answer I was giving even more!!)

 

 

Another example. True Story. It was a case of fraud, but demonstrates the "unknown limit" perfectly.

 

 

My parents HAD an account with a high street bank for 40 years. They now live abroad, but their pension is paid into their UK account and transferred. They were in the UK in order to visit family and travel for several weeks to the other side of the world and nipped to the ATM "last minute" to grab some UK cash for the airport. Their ATM card was declined.

 

They went in to the bank to find they were just short of £10,000 overdrawn. Yes, I said £10,000.

 

As far as they were aware they didn't have an overdraft facility at all.

 

Their limit was £0 as far as they were concerned.

 

It was a case of fraud by someone who knew the system. They had ordered another ATM card and PIN for my Dad, who never uses his, got it sent to the branch as my parents are abroad (this is a SECURITY arrangement my parents had in place as a member of the family could collect the cards if they showed id) , and started to withdraw their daily limit out of the ATM every day for WEEKS.

 

Had they not visited the ATM just before driving to the airport they would not have known and would have been stuffed on holiday.

 

However the point here is that the "anticipatory" limit had been added WITHOUT their knowledge, NO CONTACT had been made to tell them that they were so far overdrawn, they would not have known until they got their next statement had they not been going away.

 

The banks answer when my parents asked how so much could be taken from what was in effect an empty account, once the fraudster had removed the ACTUAL balance, was:

 

"Well, you're such good customers, you've never been charged, you pay in regularly, so we know you are good for it."

 

NOT ONE charge had been applied to the account. BUT the bank also said:

 

"We can sort you a loan out right now to pay it off until you get back and then we can sort out what's happened. Are you sure one of your grand-children hasn't been playing with your wallet Sir?"

 

Two word answer from my Father (before he called the Police) ... the second one was "off"

[CAGisforME]

As previously mentioned the OP has stopped anwering questions.

 

Actually I think they only answered one and that wasn't really well answered or explained - in my opinion.

 

Trusting that your question was rhetorical deadlykiss, I think we all know the answer. They think they are above the law with regard to benefits and they are chargind to make even bigger profits from those who can least afford it.

 

Why?

 

Because until the good people on this website and similar came along, no-one had stood up to them!