garygumps v Northern Bank (NI) ***SETTLED***

[caro]

Seriously though, I take on board your comments on being close to the end, its just that everything up to now has been to a quick clearly defined timetable so to speak, and now its all on hold for longer than its taken up to now, you know?

Gary

 

I do know Gary. It's very frustrating being delayed like this, but the courts are so swamped that there are inevitably delays. If you decide to hang on for the hearing it would be very good timing for a good Christmas, but as I say, the choice is yours.

[garygumps]

OK folks, after a few days of anguish and soul searching I have come to a decision.

 

My main reason was that I could really do with some cash soon rather than wait 4 months for an extra £200.

 

So basically, I have today written to the bank and stated that if they agree to pay immediately all the fees we do agree on, plus interest on those fees plus my court fee (total £1526) then I will consider the claim settled.

 

However, I included a little caveat! If they do not agree, or get in touch within 14 days, then all bets are off and the full claim goes ahead.

 

I know some on hear will probably think I'm mad caving in like this (yes NorthernWarrior, thats you I'm talking about!!! ) but if I can get my hands on £1500 odd now thats great for me at the moment, if not, then theres the back up plan of more to come, though I will have a long wait.

 

So heres waiting for a reply from the bank.

 

Gary

[caro]

Sounds reasonable enough to me Gary. I think it was worth taking the time to make a decision that's right for you.

[garygumps]

Thanks Caro. I actually feel a bit "dirty" ,you know, backing down a bit but I feel a lot better having come to this decision. At least I feel I am calling their bluff and secretly hope that they dont pay up!!! At least I have given them the chance to "take my complaint seriously" as they always say.

 

Anyhoo, on a wee side note, just today received paper copy of Notice of Hearing along with a copy of the banks Notice of Dispute.

 

Their great defence is ;

 

(1) The charges are levied in accordance with contract(that I asked for at the very start and still haven't received) and are the charges previously advised to the applicant.

 

(2) The charges are not in breach of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.(oh, terribly sorry, thats all right then!)

 

Is that it???? The second one gets me. All I can visualise now is like a pantomime......Oh yes it is!......Oh no it isn't! LOL:lol:

[caro]

Was that it? 2 lines? Hardly worth the paper it was written on. Clydesdale just deny everything, but at least they have the decency to pad it out.

[TheNorthernWarrior]

Never feel guilty Gary. What Caro said is true. When bankfodder suggested changing my name, he was right. I am the kind of person who really does need a kick up the***, and when it happens my temper can get the better of me. No, I don't think any less of you, cos you must remember, if people can afford to wait, all well and good, but if they can't so be it. It really does come down to peoples financial situations, always remember that and yes, I guess if it was me I would have held out even though i am still crying out for money, but hey, chin up, we still admire for you for what you've done!! You still took on the big guys and still managed to prove that the little person has had enough and will fight through!! Congratulations and NEVER feel guilty about what you do, especially if you know you are right andthat the 'law' is right behind you!! No, I am not an elderly person, well depends on how old you are, I am in my late 30's but if you're in your 20's, hey, yeah, that can be old. Good on you Gary and another one strikes for N.Ireland!!! But do keep in touch with the site, cos remember, it was the site that helped you, me and everyone else and they still need us!!! :)

[garygumps]

Um, lets not congratulate myself too soon guys!!!

 

I'm still waiting for a reply about my latest offer, and following the "helpfull" (NOT) intervention by the OFT last week, I fully expect the bank to pull the shutters down until the court date and then they will apply for a stay:mad:

 

Just you wait and see, thats what they'll do.

 

Gary

[caro]

If they've made an offer that you've accepted I don't think they'll go back on that. I hope not anyway for your sake.

[garygumps]

We actually haven't "agreed" as such on a figure. There is still £25 plus interest plus court fee which they still haven't officially recognised and agreed to pay. So to get that I was mentally expecting to have to wait time out until the court case to force their hand.

 

Now following last weeks events with the test case, I am now fully expecting to still have to wait until the case date only for a last minute stay application to be applied for by the bank or automatically by the court before then as it is so long to wait.

[TheNorthernWarrior]

Hey Gary, did you not write to them and say you'd accept their offer? If so, the Northern has stated on it's web (Northern Bank) that they will stick to their offers for 2 months if it wasn't rejected. Go onto that web site and read it, if it applies to you, call them and quote that! They will not go to you.Chin up, even if there is a delay, you will eventually get your money, CYNthesis proved it surely.

NorthernWarrior.xx:)

[garygumps]

Thanks for the heads up NorthernWarrior:)

 

We hadn't actually agreed on a figure as such. They wouldn't include the monthly maintenance fees, I wanted too and was willing to go all the way to a court date to see if they blinked first.

 

They also have never included the 8% interest or £62 court fee as litigation had been initiated. Again, I was confident of the courts backing on this as its part of the settlement process, but if the bank are going to apply for a stay, then i feel that this "protection" has been whipped away from under my feet. If they are granted a stay (is that still up to the individual judge?:? ) then I cant see how they would be obliged to honour the interest + fee because due process will have been suspended.

 

Also, when are they going to apply for the stay? It is 3.5 months to the hearing date, are they going to do it now or wait until the last minute by which time I will be outside of the banks 2 month period to agree on any offer. Would I be better getting a pre-emptive strike in by writing to the court objecting to the stay (using the excellent template on this site) and saying that basically we have agreed to settle but they are not paying interest + fees.

 

The Northern website says that they will be writing to complainants within the next few weeks and in my latest letter to them I gave them 14 days to reply, so I'll probably give them another week and a bit to write back.

 

Any comments?

 

Gary

[caro]

I don't think you should pre-empt a stay at this stage.

[garygumps]

Why not Caro?

 

What exactly is the decision making process for a stay? Will the judge make a decision based on one side of the story? ,ie, the banks because to all intents and purposes they will have made the application without me knowing (even though I do know;) if you get my drift).

 

The first I would hear about it is when I get notification that a stay has been granted! Then I would have to go about appealling that decision and any expenses that would occur.

 

Would I not be better writing in now and asking for my objection to any application for a stay that may be made and explaining that the bank are refusing to pay interest + fees. Then maybe the judge could issue some sort of decree or order that the bank must include such amounts in any settlement offer.

 

As I say, I have another few weeks to hear from them before time runs out on their last offer.

 

Gary

[caro]

I believe that YB would have to inform you of any application to remove a stay, and if and when that happens, then you could send in your objection. However some courts are staying all cases anyway without applications from the banks.

 

This is new territory and we're still feeling our way, so as usual you must do what is right for you. I just think it's best not to jump the gun, and possibly antagonise the courts in the process.

 

Remind me which court your claim is at.

[garygumps]

Caro,

 

My case is listed for 20 November at Newtownards CC (Co. Down).

 

What do you think of my situation? Am I right in thinking that interest + court fee must be included in any settlement offer, even though the bank are offering practically full refund of charges?

 

As I said, I'm willing to wait a wee while longer to see what they write back with.

 

The more i think of it, I think that the court would be sympathetic to my case if they were aware that the bank were welshing out of paying interest and fee even if they did ask for a stay.

 

Gary

[caro]

The choice is yours as to what to accept. I don't know where NI stands with regards to the OFT test case and it's impact there. I'll try and find out.

[garygumps]

Got a letter today regarding the OFT action.

 

Dear xxxxxxx

You have referred your complaint about unauthorised overdraft bank charges for determination in court.

Although, we believe the charges are fair, transparent and lawful. Since you filed your claim in court the banks have become involved in legal proceedings with the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) in relation to bank charges which we believe will resolve the legal issues regarding the fairness and legality of your bank charges.

We have asked the Financial Services Authority (FSA) to suspend the normal timetable for dealing with bank charges compalints, and the FSA has agreed to this request subject to conditions that protect your rights.

Given this court case we have also asked the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) and we intend to apply to the Courts not to proceed with any other case they are hearing until the test case is resolved. FOS has indicated that as a general proposition it will indeed not proceed with cases which rely on the legal issues being considered in the test case. Similarly you should be aware that if you choose to issue a claim in the courts we will immediately apply to the courts for an order to stay your action until resolution of the banks' proceedings with the OFT.

We will keep you updated appropriately about the proceedings with the OFT.

We can asure you we have registered and stored your complaint. Please retain your bank records, as this will make it easier for you to support your compalint on resolution of the test case.

Once the legal proceedings between the OFT and the banks finish, we will resolve your compalint as quickly as possible, applying the (test case) principles.

As a general matter, we will ensure that your claim will not be adversely affected by the stay of your court proceedings.

Yours sincerely

 

Now this looked to me like a standard draft letter going out to everyone and not a specific reply to my last letter so I phoned them and arranged for someone to phone me back. While waiting I decided to phone the local courthouse to try and find out if it was business as usual or if any cases had been heard or stayed lately. The clerk told me that business was on hold until the end of august for summer recess anyway as the local judge was on holiday and would make a decision on several applications that had been made so far for stays then.

 

Anyway, the bank phoned back and to cut a long story short I think we have agreed to settle !

 

I wasn't happy about waiting until November and certainly not for up to 2 years for the test case decision, so I basically backed down on the disputed amounts and am getting my interest and my court fee.

[caro]

Sounds like a reasonable result to me Gary. If at the end of the OFT case it's decided the disputed items are unlawful you could always go back then.

 

Congratulations.

[garygumps]

Have today sent off acceptance letter for £1462.

 

When money clears, donation on the way:D

 

Thanks to everyone especially Caro and NorthernWarrior for all advice and guidance.

 

Suppose I can get a ***WON*** on my thread now? Oh and do I submit my claim details now or wait 'til I get the money?

 

Now wheres that Capital One claim.............

 

Gary

[caro]

You can have a ***WON*** when you have the money and not before, lol. If you haven't submitted any claim details yet, we might as well wait until it really is concluded.

 

So how is the £1462.00 made up - charges - interest - court fees?

 

Congratulations by the way.

[garygumps]

We haggled down to £1224 basic charges (due to "alleged":) refunds at the time). This was made up of safe charges for unauthorised borrowing, warning letters, unpaid items etc. In the interest of a quick payout, I agreed to take out the monthly maintenance fees. I was willing to go all the way to a court hearing for those, but the OFT sticking their size 10's into the mix scuppered the threat of an actual court hearing IMHO, so that weapon was lost to me I thought. Ah well.

 

Interest of £175. A bit more than it should be after taking out the relevant charges from the spreadsheet. Don't say anything though;)

 

And the £62 court fee.

 

Gary

[caro]

Sounds a good result to me under the circumstances Gary. Well done.

[hilaryfrances]

hey Gary, I would not be so sure of getting your money. YB have withdrawn their offer form SimonThe Brewer, which he had accepted. This really does not seem right to me. no advice from mods yet, I wonder what is going on.

[garygumps]

hey Gary, I would not be so sure of getting your money. YB have withdrawn their offer form SimonThe Brewer, which he had accepted. This really does not seem right to me. no advice from mods yet, I wonder what is going on.

 

No Hilary, don't worry I'll get the money. The lady i spoke to on the phone was straight up I believe and seemed genuine enough to sort the matter out.

 

Latest advice from FSA to the banks IIRC says that banks should honour all offers for 2 months unless they have been rejected outright. I think I have been lucky in that I hadn't rejected the latest offer outright but was seeking clarification on a few points.

 

Gary

[noomill060]

Spoke to Jennifer at the Civil Processing Centre in Belfast. N.Ireland judges have NOT placed and are not placing a blanket stay on bank charge cases, they are still dealing with them, refusing bank's stay applications.