Debt Collection Agency - My first footstep fighting back

[Keggy46]

zubo, that's a fine British name, in the words of Al Murray:)

 

We're all foreigners and are just alien star dust from the ethereal cosmos and yes i don't believe we landed on the moon as well!! They probably orbited but no way did they land. Iraq is for oil and they WILL invade Iran, just so they can monopolise the south of the Caspian sea, google map it and you'll see what i mean. Caspian sea is the last bastion of oil reserves, ooppss, going off topic again:x

 

Any help given to beat bullies whether military might or just some jumped up DCA can be spoken in any native tongue for all i care.

 

Besides, we should all barter with apples and bananas like the good 'ole days. no money needed, just the size of your apple tree matters. Even then DCA's will probably want to surcharge for cost of air and soil.

 

Thanks for your suggestion Zubo, i will ammend my pervious post accordingly.

[The Lantana]

Keggy,

 

If it was me I'd take out the bit that says...

 

'...and not just a copy of the initial application form, which i received.'

 

and also the bit that says...

 

'Also, the debt is now unenforceable as it took 35 days to receive my requested information. The statutory time limit is 12 days as detailed in the Consumer Credit Act of 1974.'

 

The debt is unenforceable because they haven't produced a valid agreement. The fact that they breached deadlines is irrelevant if they can produce a valid agreement in the future.

 

JMHO

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[Keggy46]

thanks lantana, really appreciate that. It clears up the doubt of deadlines, just get 'em where it hurts...their pathetic admin. Amusing that when Lowell phoned today and i said i will only correspond in writing he said "We are a call centre you know, it's our job to phone", pure gold. I just feel so, so sorry for the OAP's that they must scare shi****s with intimidation.

 

i'll re-jig original draft from your advice and Zubo's, thanks again Lantana:)

[InKogneeToh]

Hi Pam,

 

Again, you're a breath of fresh air, thanks.

 

I will do exactly as you say and write a letter saying something like :

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Thank you for the information you sent following my request for data under CCA 1974. However, i would like to point out that as duly authorised collection agents, Lowell financial Ltd are obliged to send a copy of the executed credit agreement that contains all of the prescribed terms and all notices of my statutory rights and not just a copy of the initial application form, which i received. As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

Also, the debt is now unenforceable as it took 35 days to receive my requested information. The statutory time limit is 12 days as detailed in the Consumer Credit Act of 1974.

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested and consider this matter to be “in dispute”.

 

Would that be okay, or can it be beefed up?

 

Regarding Cap1 charges, well that's just a joke. Original card limit was £200 and i only had two transactions in 2001, a £100 cash withdrawal and 2 Eric Clapton tickets, 'cause he's a guitar God:). Anyway, after that i buried my head (as you do) and they put almost £600 in interest and charges on the account. So even if they chase and chase, i will only owe about £40 to pay off the money, i originally borrowed. Will only pay if they can provide what i'm asking for though. It's just the principal of beating down the bullies that feeds my fire.

 

Again, thanks in advance.

 

Hi

 

You should send your letters to Lowell Portfolio I Ltd, who are the actual owners of the debt and therefore the new creditor under the CCA. It is they who are actually obliged to send the copy agreement, although they always pass everything to their sidekick Lowell Financial, so you won't actually ever get a reply from Lowell Portfolio!

 

Just keep it simple, e.g.-

 

Thank you for the information you sent following my request under the CCA 1974.

 

However, I made a request to you on .... for a copy of the executed agreement applicable to the alleged debt. Under the CCA s77/78, you are obliged to send me a true copy of the actual credit agreement but have only sent me a copy of the initial application form.

 

A regulated credit agreement contains all of the prescribed terms, other required information and statements of my statutory rights.

 

I would therefore be obliged if you would send me a copy of that document as soon as possible.

 

Yours (but hopefully not for much longer )

 

I wouldn't remind them of the consequences of not complying - it's up to them to know that! Also if a creditor sends a true copy of the credit agreement after the 12 day limit has passed the default is lifted so it can then be enforced.

 

I also wouldn't mention anything about court or defences personally - don't want them being on their guard now do we?

 

Regards, Pam

[InKogneeToh]

Thank you for the copy of my original application form, I have retained this in the event of any litigation. Unfortunately this does not comply with the requirements for a true copy of the executed agreement as specified in the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you do not understand why then I suggest that you refer it to your legal department.

You are in default under the Act and my contention is that you have been in default since the outset of the alleged agreement. You therefore are unable to enforce the alleged agreement nor share data with third parties nor have rights of assignment and I insist that you comply with the law and instruct Lowell to remove all reference from their files and databases.

The brief examination of the SAR indicates also that you have applied unlawful penalty charges and you are obliged to allow me to follow due process in this dispute and complete my investigation when I will submit to you a schedule of penalty charges together with my claim for recovery of these charges.

YS

 

ok?

 

Z

 

Keggi is writing to Lowell Zubo, who are now the owners of the debt so the paragraph I have underlined is not really applicable and this isn't in response to a SAR but because they have sent (in response to CCA request) one of those 'application forms' from CapOne that is masquerading as an agreement.

 

Regards, Pam

[Keggy46]

Hi to you all,

 

Just about to fire this off to lovely Lowell and would welcome feedback from anyone

 

As a reminder, i dispute their paperwork because of the generic 'application form' they sent that's meant to be a copy of the agreement, same as DiskManDaves paperwork (http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....tml#post557960 ). Here is my letter to send ...

 

MY ADDRESS

31st March, 2007

Lowell Financial

PO Box 172

Leeds

LS11 9WS

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: − Account/Reference Number xxxxxxxxxx

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS DEBT AND THEREFORE REQUIRE YOU TO SUBSTANTIATE THIS BEFORE I CORRESPOND FURTHER.

 

With reference to the above account and a letter from Lowell Financial entitled “Termination Notice”, I would like to request the following please:

 

- To clarify who owns the debt. Is it “Lowell Financial Ltd” or “Lowell Portfolio 1 Ltd”? As a customer, I see these two limited companies as completely different entities where each company is unable to enforce the alleged agreement because this account is in dispute, nor share data with each other nor have rights of assignment.

 

- Thank you for the information you sent following my request under the CCA 1974. However, I made a request to you on 6th February 2007, for a copy of the executed agreement applicable to the alleged debt. Under the CCA s77/78, you are obliged to send me a true copy of the actual credit agreement but have only sent me a copy of the initial application form. A regulated credit agreement contains all of the prescribed terms, other required information and statements of my statutory rights. I would therefore be obliged if you would send me a copy of that document as soon as possible.

 

I look forward to your reply and clarification regarding this account.

 

Yours faithfully

Signature

 

Thanks in advance, really appreciate the help.

[zubo]

Hi to you all,

 

Just about to fire this off to lovely Lowell and would welcome feedback from anyone

 

As a reminder, i dispute their paperwork because of the generic 'application form' they sent that's meant to be a copy of the agreement, same as DiskManDaves paperwork (http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....tml#post557960 ). Here is my letter to send ...

 

MY ADDRESS

31st March, 2007

Lowell Financial

PO Box 172

Leeds

LS11 9WS

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: − Account/Reference Number xxxxxxxxxx

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS DEBT AND THEREFORE REQUIRE YOU TO SUBSTANTIATE THIS BEFORE I CORRESPOND FURTHER.

 

With reference to the above account and a letter from Lowell Financial entitled “Termination Notice”, I would like to request the following please:

 

- To clarify who owns the debt. Is it “Lowell Financial Ltd” or “Lowell Portfolio 1 Ltd”? As a customer, I see these two limited companies as completely different entities where each company is unable to enforce the alleged agreement because this account is in dispute, nor share data with each other nor have rights of assignment.

 

- Thank you for the information you sent following my request under the CCA 1974. However, I made a request to you on 6th February 2007, for a copy of the executed agreement applicable to the alleged debt. Under the CCA s77/78, you are obliged to send me a true copy of the actual credit agreement but have only sent me a copy of the initial application form. A regulated credit agreement contains all of the prescribed terms, other required information and statements of my statutory rights. I would therefore be obliged if you would send me a copy of that document as soon as possible.

 

I look forward to your reply and clarification regarding this account.

 

Yours faithfully

Signature

 

Thanks in advance, really appreciate the help.

 

Keggy

 

My suggestion would be to be more forceful, rather than soliciting information. I prefer to state what I think is the obvious rather than ask for their input:

 

mine would look like this:

 

I made a request to you on 6th February 2007, for a copy of the executed agreement applicable to the alleged debt. Under the Consumer Credit Act s77/78, you are obliged to send me a true copy of the actual credit agreement but have only sent me a copy of the initial application form. A regulated credit agreement as specified by the Act contains all of the prescribed terms, other required information and statements of my statutory rights.

You are formally notified that because you have failed to supply me with a true copy of the agreement that you are in default. This means that you cannot make any charges, levy any interest, attempt to enforce the agreement, sell the agreement, share data, and you must remove all and any defaults raised against this agreement.

Additionally, you are reminded that you have committed a serious offence under the Act and it is my intention to notify the enforcement agencies of that fact and report you to OFT/FOS as being unsuitable to hold a license and to trade in financial products.

Finally, you are reminded that even if you are not the original creditor you are still liable to comply with the terms of the Act. Also if you are only acting on behalf of the Creditor, you have a duty to send this letter to the creditor, failure to do so is also an offence.

I await your reply,

YS

[Keggy46]

Jesus Zubo, you really shoot from the hip, nice :)

 

I was going to include your original comments posted on 21st March, but preffered instead the softly, softly approach as recommended by InKogneeToh(Pam). Perhaps a the female touch may be too soft and your intonation Zubo is much more warranted.

 

Lowell have the audacity to threaten decapitation and courts et al, so why can't consumers speak their language aswell

 

I would love to send your version Zubo, but will wait to see if anyone else responds with input before i post it tomorrow.

 

Thanks Zubo, reputation added with pleasure

[zubo]

cheers Keggy much appreciated.

 

I just love Pam's precise eloquence.

 

Everyone to their own style, I must admit in these situations I like people to understand - they would skin me alive if they could - well - I just don't take prisoners. However having said that, there is a time to be nice and friendly and reasonable to demonstrate to the DJ that you really have bent over backwards to accomodate these poor people who dont understand... but I always hide that nice shiny knife behind me when I am in softly softly mode...so they always know what I am really after - their soul!!!

 

Hardcore or softcore???

 

Z

[Keggy46]

indeed zubo,

 

i'm a big columbo fan - act dumb and stupid and people will think they are better than you, but inside shines a genius with malice. one of my favourite quotes "Wear your knowledge like a wristwatch, proclaim it every hour, don't dictate it every minute!!"

 

looks like i'll use Pam's nice approach and have your fighting spirit empower me, gotta let Lowell feel the love before they feel the hate:)

[InKogneeToh]

Hi to you all,

 

Just about to fire this off to lovely Lowell and would welcome feedback from anyone

 

As a reminder, i dispute their paperwork because of the generic 'application form' they sent that's meant to be a copy of the agreement, same as DiskManDaves paperwork (http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....tml#post557960 ). Here is my letter to send ...

 

MY ADDRESS

31st March, 2007

Lowell Financial

PO Box 172

Leeds

LS11 9WS

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: − Account/Reference Number xxxxxxxxxx

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS DEBT AND THEREFORE REQUIRE YOU TO SUBSTANTIATE THIS BEFORE I CORRESPOND FURTHER.

 

With reference to the above account and a letter from Lowell Financial entitled “Termination Notice”, I would like to request the following please:

 

- To clarify who owns the debt. Is it “Lowell Financial Ltd” or “Lowell Portfolio 1 Ltd”? [As a customer, I see these two limited companies as completely different entities where each company is unable to enforce the alleged agreement because this account is in dispute, nor share data with each other nor have rights of assignment]. (You can't really include statements like this unless/until you KNOW they can't legally enforce it. They may yet come up with an agreement so hold fire on this type of assertion for a while.)

 

- Thank you for the information you sent following my request under the CCA 1974. However, I made a request to you on 6th February 2007, for a copy of the executed agreement applicable to the alleged debt. Under the CCA s77/78, you are obliged to send me a true copy of the actual credit agreement but have only sent me a copy of the initial application form. A regulated credit agreement contains all of the prescribed terms, other required information and statements of my statutory rights. I would therefore be obliged if you would send me a copy of that document as soon as possible.

 

I look forward to your reply and clarification regarding this account.

 

Yours faithfully

Signature

 

Thanks in advance, really appreciate the help.

 

Hi

 

You and Zubo have made me blush now!

 

I have made a comment above about your letter. Zubo's approach is equally good except that again you can't really insist on defaults removed or threaten them with anything until/unless you KNOW they can't enforce. You need to give them this final chance to come up with the goods.

 

Regards, Pam

[zubo]

Hi

 

You and Zubo have made me blush now!

 

I have made a comment above about your letter. Zubo's approach is equally good except that again you can't really insist on defaults removed or threaten them with anything until/unless you KNOW they can't enforce. You need to give them this final chance to come up with the goods.

 

Regards, Pam

 

she's such a gentle lady... but precisely correct...

me I follow my star sign Taurus... not much left unsmashed

 

Z

[InKogneeToh]

she's such a gentle lady... but precisely correct...

me I follow my star sign Taurus... not much left unsmashed

 

Z

 

Hi

 

I'm no pussy cat, as my OH will testify!

 

I just like my letters polite but there's often a hint of sarcasm in them!

 

Anyway I might be nice today, but I'm a Gemini so she might be horrid tomorrow!:lol:

 

Regards, Pam (Mark I)

[Keggy46]

gonna go with pam the pussycat approach and have a zubo's zeal as back up ammunition. fire that salvo on another day

 

gonna send the following to lovely Lowell:

 

address

31st March, 2007

Lowell Financial

PO Box 172

Leeds

LS11 9WS

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: − Account/Reference Number xxxxxx

 

DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS DEBT AND THEREFORE REQUIRE YOU TO SUBSTANTIATE THIS BEFORE I CORRESPOND FURTHER.

 

With reference to the above account and a letter from Lowell Financial entitled “Termination Notice”, I would like to request the following please:

 

- To clarify who owns the debt; is it “Lowell Financial Ltd” or “Lowell Portfolio 1 Ltd”?

 

- Thank you for the information you sent following my request under the CCA 1974. However, I made a request to you on 6th February 2007, for a copy of the executed agreement applicable to the alleged debt. Under the CCA s77/78, you are obliged to send me a true copy of the actual credit agreement but have only sent me a copy of the initial application form. A regulated credit agreement contains all of the prescribed terms, other required information and statements of my statutory rights. I would therefore be obliged if you would send me a copy of that document as soon as possible.

 

I look forward to your reply and clarification regarding this account.

 

Yours faithfully

Me

 

Thanks Zubo and Pam, sincerely appreciate the input :)

[InKogneeToh]

gonna go with pam the pussycat approach and have a zubo's zeal as back up ammunition. fire that salvo on another day

 

gonna send the following to lovely Lowell:

 

address

31st March, 2007

Lowell Financial

PO Box 172

Leeds

LS11 9WS

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: − Account/Reference Number xxxxxx

 

DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS DEBT AND THEREFORE REQUIRE YOU TO SUBSTANTIATE THIS BEFORE I CORRESPOND FURTHER.

 

With reference to the above account and a letter from Lowell Financial entitled “Termination Notice”, I would like to request the following please:

 

- To clarify who owns the debt; is it “Lowell Financial Ltd” or “Lowell Portfolio 1 Ltd”?

 

- Thank you for the information you sent following my request under the CCA 1974. However, I made a request to you on 6th February 2007, for a copy of the executed agreement applicable to the alleged debt. Under the CCA s77/78, you are obliged to send me a true copy of the actual executed credit agreement but have only sent me a copy of the initial application form. A regulated credit agreement contains all of the prescribed terms, other required information and all statements of the debtor's (not 'my') statutory rights and is signed by both parties. I would therefore be obliged if you would send me a copy of that executed document as soon as possible.

 

I look forward to your reply and clarification regarding this account.

 

Yours faithfully

Me

 

Thanks Zubo and Pam, sincerely appreciate the input :)

 

Hi

 

Have fiddled with the letter slightly and removed the word 'my' as you're admitting nothing!

 

Regards, Pam

[Keggy46]

thanks Pam, you're on full purring power now

 

i'll ammend accordingly, print off and whack it in the post tomorrow, recorded delivery ofcourse.

[The Lantana]

Purrrrrr!

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[sillygirl1]

DONT give in to the request to pay £15-£25 for your own info from Capital One, they tried that one on me and decided it was an 'agreement to pay' and 'acceptance of debt'. Despite the poor response from my thread which got reposted to the Capital One list I am going after them - have appointment tomorrow with Trading Standards.

 

Capital One completely ignore customers requests and ignore the courts, they didn't turn up at my hearing and I had their claim thrown out, but despite receiving a Notice of Discontinuation I still had people chasing, this is why I am going to see Trading Standards tomorow...

[Keggy46]

Jesus SillyGirl, sounds like you're having a nightmare.

 

Perhaps it would help if you changed mental tact and look forward to them contacting you. A great post i read was when someone was phoned again and again. The DCA would say "can you confirm your address and phone number", simple answer "no, i don't know who you are and am disclosing no information. Anything you have to say is to be done in writing so i can trace paperwork", they'll soon stop phoning. There are templates to get them off your back in this forum.

 

A few terse letters to CapOne or Lowell (their bully boy refferal agents) should soon get them off your back if you have a notice of discontinuation from a court. Just remember that DCA's have such a high turnover of staff that they just bully people who are spewed out by their automated phone diallers. They didn't do very well at school and were probably bullies themselves.

 

Good luck SillyGirl, i feel your pain

[Jeff2000]

DONT give in to the request to pay £15-£25 for your own info from Capital One, they tried that one on me and decided it was an 'agreement to pay' and 'acceptance of debt'. Despite the poor response from my thread which got reposted to the Capital One list I am going after them - have appointment tomorrow with Trading Standards.

 

Capital One completely ignore customers requests and ignore the courts, they didn't turn up at my hearing and I had their claim thrown out, but despite receiving a Notice of Discontinuation I still had people chasing, this is why I am going to see Trading Standards tomorow...

 

 

Hello sillygirl,

 

 

If there is a notice of discontinuation, then I'd go for the jugular with Cap One.

 

Nail them to the f****** mast!!!

 

 

Jeff.

[ODC]

Hello sillygirl,

 

 

If there is a notice of discontinuation, then I'd go for the jugular with Cap One.

 

Nail them to the f****** mast!!!

 

 

Jeff.

Yes I agree. Sue their asses. Let them see what its like to receive a Court Summons. However I dont recomend certain Mickey Mouse Legal Companies who appear on here

[Jeff2000]

However I dont recomend certain Mickey Mouse Legal Companies who appear on here

 

 

Hi ODC,

 

 

Now who could you possibly mean!!!:D:D

 

 

Jeff.

[ODC]

Hi ODC,

 

 

Now who could you possibly mean!!!:D:D

 

 

Jeff.

Unfortunately the rules of this forum prevent my naming and shaming of them. You get the picture Im sure. The strange coincidence is that most of them share the same offices, stationary, type faces, and 0870 numbers as the DCAs. Maybe thats just me being a tad cynical

[sillygirl1]

I'm even more cynical since I realised that London and Scottish (whoevicted me in October) and GMAC share the same address for different legal departments....

 

I will report back what Trading Standards says, I have five letters and a record of 'visit' since they served the 'Notice of Discontinuation' and as far as I know the CCJ is STILL showing on my credit record! I won't use a third party company for this as I have had experience in the past and know I can fight with the backing of a couple of friends.

[Keggy46]

if you have time sillyGirl, i'd highly recommend reading tBern123's thread, most fascinating. He opens up the can of worms about how DCA's use dormant trading status to empower their own legal departments to chase down debts even though they are the same 'umbrella' company. It's a very underhand tactic that i'm sure will change once the financial ombudsman kick in, in april. Every investigation will be charged £500 to the DCA, so that will soon get them to play above board.

 

it's sad but the UK is a debt ridden society and DCA's are just leeches who think they can make their own laws, not for much longer.

 

it sounds like you've had your fair share of stress SillyGirl, the pain is almost over:)