Baliff petition;Stop them getting a legal right to forced entry;Peter Bard

[JonCris]

Perhaps we should make this advice a sticky so anyone about to be visited by Bailiff can, if the police are summoned, hand them a copy explaining their duties - should go down well - at least they would know they aren't dealing with a Muppet

 

Also it might be a good idea for our press office to send copies to the various media outlets - I'm thinking particularly of the BBC who appear to be supporting the bailiffs in their illegal activities

[JonCris]

Question 1 - Knowing what we know does anyone here believe that the act allowing bailiffs forced entry & assault for ordinary debt is squalid

 

Question 2 - Again knowing what we know does anyone here believe that there will be deaths as a direct result of this act

[The Watcher]

Question 1 - Knowing what we know does anyone here believe that the act allowing bailiffs forced entry & assault for ordinary debt is squalid

 

Question 2 - Again knowing what we know does anyone here believe that there will be deaths as a direct result of this act

 

Yes

 

and

 

Yes

[maybelline]

thanks TheWatcher for the link, it should go to all police forces and agencies involved!

[The Watcher]

It just shows that the police DO know the law - if they can be bothered to enforce it, is another matter entirely.

[pugsley]

Just a suggestion?

 

Is there any chance of a new thread (or first post Update) about these issues now, as this is so long, maybe starting with the advice about rights

http://www.devon-cornwall.police.uk/v3/pdfstore/CJU_D222.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 

what the new act allows, what to do, maybe some bullet points.

 

sorry but it has got so long I have lost the context a bit.

[The Watcher]

Why not join us on the "Let's all write to Chef Constables" thread ?

[stabradop]

So I take it a baliff cannot just force entry willy-nilly? They have to have a court order first?

[JonCris]

So I take it a baliff cannot just force entry willy-nilly? They have to have a court order first?

 

That'll be a yes - mind you 'some' will try & tell you different - cos they is bailiffs init:rolleyes:

 

In fact some will claim all kinds of powers they just don't have - even with a warrant

[Francesco]

I would like to echo pugsley's suggestion for an update, if possible.

 

 

It was expected to be starting, to be implemented, at about this time.

 

Obviously anyone us could ring the the local court, but I prefer imformed opinion.

 

Best regards to all.

 

F.

[stabradop]

That'll be a yes - mind you 'some' will try & tell you different - cos they is bailiffs init:rolleyes:

 

In fact some will claim all kinds of powers they just don't have - even with a warrant

 

 

Surely then the "bailiff" could be charged with gaining entry using false pretences (a bit like someone pretending to be the gas man etc)?

 

Additionally I remember a programme a while back and most of the fatherless's that actually come to the door are not even certified. Its just the paperwork that is signed by a certified bailiff.

 

Personally I think they should be licenced in the same way that those in the security industry are, and that they cannot even leave their offices without an SIA type badge.

[JonCris]

Bailiffs ARE 'licensed'

 

They are 'certified' by the local court as being a fit & proper person (I can't type that without laughing) & can be reported to that court if they misbehave but you try getting one of them into court & winning - believe me when I say you have real uphill struggle on your hands - after all the complainant, namley you, will only be a feckless debtor - won't you:rolleyes:

 

I suspect you mean debt collectors who often pose as bailiffs - let me put it this way if your under the misapprehension that the bully at your door demanding payment now is a proper certified bailiff they aren't going to enlighten you otherwise. In addition in order to further their misrepresentation some will often claim they have the powers of a bailiff or even that they can send you to prison - they are known as scumbags

 

Ask to see their court issued licence & if they can't or won't produce one it's a very good chance they ain't a bailiff which in itself is an offence but trying to get the authorities to do anything would be like finding hens teeth:mad:

[angeljs]

I've been a member of this site for some time, and my husband has been a regular on here the past few weeks trying to find advice on a different issue. I've only just discovered this thread and have spent the last few days going through it.

 

Neither my husband or myself had any idea about this new law and admit to feeling shocked! Our homes are the last place we can defend, albeit reluctantly as defending oneself is fast becoming a crime anyway, and to find that this last vestige of dignity is being ripped away from us has left us feeling like the scumbags the politicians obviously think people in debt are!

 

Do none of the self-righteous, judgmental, RICH AND WELL-PAID MP's have mortgages? A debt is a debt, whether it's £5 or £5,000,000, and if the time comes when they or a member of their families fall foul of this law, then perhaps it will be reviewed.

 

Wouldn't it be just terrible if one of them awoke to someone forcing their way in, looting their belongings and assaulting them in the name of the law...then they look at the piece of paper that allows them to do this, but they have the wrong address!! Are any of them denying this could happen to them???

[The Watcher]

Do none of the self-righteous, judgmental, RICH AND WELL-PAID MP's have mortgages?

 

Yes, they do - but as we have seen from the recent expenses claims scandel, in many cases WE are paying THEIR mortgages for them (and in some cases their TV licence and Council Tax too !)

[JonCris]

I've been a member of this site for some time, and my husband has been a regular on here the past few weeks trying to find advice on a different issue. I've only just discovered this thread and have spent the last few days going through it.

 

Neither my husband or myself had any idea about this new law and admit to feeling shocked! Our homes are the last place we can defend, albeit reluctantly as defending oneself is fast becoming a crime anyway, and to find that this last vestige of dignity is being ripped away from us has left us feeling like the scumbags the politicians obviously think people in debt are!

 

Do none of the self-righteous, judgmental, RICH AND WELL-PAID MP's have mortgages? A debt is a debt, whether it's £5 or £5,000,000, and if the time comes when they or a member of their families fall foul of this law, then perhaps it will be reviewed.

 

Wouldn't it be just terrible if one of them awoke to someone forcing their way in, looting their belongings and assaulting them in the name of the law...then they look at the piece of paper that allows them to do this, but they have the wrong address!! Are any of them denying this could happen to them???

 

They DO have mortgages...........even if the don't need them..........& it's us who are paying:mad:

[The Watcher]

What happens when people are given to much power and become complacent about it.

 

Drug police smash their way into WRONG HOUSE !

 

Drug Raid Police Smash Their Way Into Wrong House |Sky News|UK News

[JonCris]

I particularly liked this bit from a GMP Spokesperson

"Officers will be reviewing what went wrong in order to make sure this doesn't happen again."

Huh! Like that’s gonna happen any day soon

[tomtubby]

DRAKES GROUP and a FORM 4 COMPLAINT.

 

 

The attached provides details from the Judgement recently received concerning a Form 4 Complaint against a Drakes bailiff that was made to Middlesborough County Court in February 2008 by a disabled lady, who is confined to a wheelchair.

 

Following this hearing the bailiff's certificate was revoked and compensation awarded to the lady from the Bailiff's Bond.

 

As everyone can see from the final comment from the Judge, it is clear that Bailiff companies should be independantly regulated.

 

If anyone has any queries on this case, then please feel free to pm me.

 

Drakes Group complaint

[JonCris]

Excellent but then Drake have been getting away with this sort of behaviour for years yet this government still allow them to collect fines etc:

[parisgal]

PARISGAL.

 

I am very interested in your response for many reasons. Firstly you work for a reputable company. With resepct, EVERY single bailiff company that I talk with daily will ALL say the same.

 

Secondly, it is as if all bailiff companies have been on a training course to say the same thing, which is to say about the "won't pays". I have been dealing in debt counselling for 14 years and we have a webiste offering assistance on all matters connected with bailiff's.

 

You should be aware that far from people not paying their council tax, the collection rate around the country is a staggering 98.7%. Considering the huge level of debt that people have this is a remarkable achievement and frankly knocks any argument out of the way concerning the fact that there are many who don't pay.

 

What however is clear, is that from enquiries that our office receives every day, over half of all bailiffs are working either without a certificate or else working with a certificate that was provided for a previous employer which of course should have been changed as the bailiff bond would be invalid.

 

Please do not also lose sight of the fact that in the past year there have been 5 mortgage interest rates, gas & electricity have risen by 26% and petrol is at the highest rate in history. Is it any wonder that people are unable to pay their council tax or parking charge notices.

 

All I was trying to say is that it isnt fair to assume all bailiff companies act incorrectly and ignore the very complicated legislation which is taken very seriously by the bailiff companies and the council they work for. Many people assume bailiffs are not accountable when in fact we are under close scrutiny from many differnet bodies (quite rightly). Its not an easy job when all is said and done

 

I mentioned the fact that many debtors WONT pay is because a huge 80% of files referred to the bailiffs are not collected successfully as we are ignored quite often! Unfortunately we dont get any kind of reimbursement for these files despite the fact we may have visited the property on several occasions over a number of years. I was not referring to council tax collection rates in general but specifically the files which have been referred for bailif enforcement.

 

Personally I always try to treat everybody with respect and am happy to discuss their financial circumstances and set a suitable arrangement accordingly. The people who set an arrangement and maintain it as agreed avoid fees being applied as no action is taken. Please also remeber we are given set guidelines by the council and they often insist we collect the debt in a certain amount of time e.g. 3 months. Unfortunately if this is the case we are unable to extend the arrangements no matter what the circumstances

 

I think a few of you have taken my comments the wrong way! I was simply trying to offer my opinion from my perspective. I certainly do not think anybody with outstanding arrears are scumbags! In fact Ive had to deal with bailiffs myself in the past but avoided any fees by making an arrangement in the first instance.

 

My message to anybody who recieves a notice from the bailiff is to contact them asap and make an arrangement. This is just my advice. Unfortunately there are rogue bailiffs out there and of course it is important you bring any issues to the attention of the company so they can be addressed. If you are not satisfed with any response recieved it is possible to issue a complaint against the bailiff at the court they are certificated and the bailiff will be summoned to be examined by the judge. Also our clients are very eager to ensure we are acting correclty and believe me they will always follow up any complaint that is made very thoroughly.

 

My firm IS reputable and we take any complaints very seriously indeed. We have a firm procedure in place and all the bailiffs are closely monitored. Montoring and auditing of the bailiffs is crucial and any problems identified are addressed.

 

WE ARE NOT ALL VILLAINS!!!! am quite offended really, but it kind of proves my point that we all get tarred with the same brush.

[parisgal]

Sorry parisgal I was ready to listen to your argument until I got to the bit "mainly won't pay" but that bit says it all.

 

I suggest that before you judge all debtors as feckless you try & find out why they have got into their situation. Whilst some are no doubt feckless it my experience that the vast majority are not but find themselves unable to pay their debts because of changing circumstances, illness, redundancy, etc.

 

Also my experience of debt collectors & I include bailiffs is that they constantly act unlawfully. One of their favorite tricks is to place their foot in the doorway & despite repeated request to remove it refuse. This is unlawful trespass which they seem to think they commit without sanction & they scream assault when the home owner physically removes their foot which the home occupier is perfectly entitled to do

 

Its a grey area but bailiffs are technically allowed to place their foot in the door. Although we do not encourage this practice in general. (as I said not all bailiff firms are evil pantomime villains boo hiss)

 

The majority of debts passed to bailiffs are ignored and we only manage collect about 20% of the files which are sent to us. Quite often we are just subject to an awful lot of abuse when we are simply carrying out our clients instruction.

 

I appreciate you speaking from your experience but was keen to offer my views from MY experience! Ive got no time for bailiffs who act incorrectly and for example I found the whistleblower programme showed on BBC extremely disturbing. Some of the stuff which was shown was absolutely disgusting!!

 

But we dont all behave like that.................. please believe me!!

[robin9342]

Its NOT a grey area. Bailiffs are NOT allowed to place their foot in the door. How are we supposed to believe your assurances that your company are the "nice guys" when you can't even get this right??:

 

What bailiffs can and can't do

 

Forced entry includes pushing past you once you have opened the door to them or leaving their foot in the door to prevent you closing it. Such action would make the whole process illegal.

 

From:

Bailiffs and debt collectors : Directgov - Money, tax and benefits

[parisgal]

Its NOT a grey area. Bailiffs are NOT allowed to place their foot in the door. How are we supposed to believe your assurances that your company are the "nice guys" when you can't even get this right??:

 

What bailiffs can and can't do

 

Forced entry includes pushing past you once you have opened the door to them or leaving their foot in the door to prevent you closing it. Such action would make the whole process illegal.

 

From:

Bailiffs and debt collectors : Directgov - Money, tax and benefits

yes I am fully aware bailiffs are not allowed to force entry prior to gaining peaceful access. Once peaceful access has been gained and a walking possession order in place bailiffs are permitted to force entry to return and remove the levied goods. As I say it is rare this practice is undertaken and it is only done after a walking possesion order has been signed. I wasnt stating that putting a foot in the door isnt forced entry - indeed it is. Whether this is morally correct is one thing but is certainly allowed under law if the correct procedure has been followed.

So of course the advice is dont let a bailiff into your home in the first place! Call and make an arrangement!

Please dont be so unpleasant, I indicated forcing entry is not always allowed by stating this was a grey area. Im sorry if I didnt phrase that very well.

There are a million and one websites which will confirm this is the case

[JonCris]

Well if the proof of the pudding was ever needed this is it I quote "bailiffs ARE allowed to put their foot in the door"

 

What utter rubbish. Putting your foot in the door in order to stop it closing IS forcing entry & trespass

 

This statement alone clearly shows that bailiffs don't have clue when it comes to the law they just 'think' they do

 

Where did parisgal get the idea its a 'grey' area. It's nothing of the sort & if it's thought a grey area it's only because the police refuse to act even when blatant abuses by bailiffs are happening right in front of them

 

That may change however as I understand at least a couple of forces are currently being sued for assisting bailiffs gain unlawful entry into private property by threatening the occupant with arrest if he/she obstructed the bailiff from entering their home in pursuant of a civil debt which in one case they didn't even owe

[caledfwlch]

I suspect that most bailiffs see the entire legal system as a "grey area" where bailiff law is concerned.

 

 

I think CAB should start advising everyone, maybe through posters and some leafleting too, that if it looks likely you will be getting a visit soon, get a friend/family member to do a statutory declaration that any removable goods are their, which then creates a situation, where whether a bailiff gains peaceful entry, or is allowed in, their job simply wont be doable, as their secret weapon of a walking posession will just be a damp squid!