HFC Marbles Card Charges Reclaiming

[dx100uk]

they cant if it was closed in june 2004

and also they owe you the int

you ned to do things in writing only

 

typical hfc shananigansdx

[tifo]

Yes, i know they have to pay me by cheque.

 

The point I was trying to make is that they're again trying to go back on their 'word' to send me a cheque and because i've had this from them before I made sure they put the cheque method in writing. But this doesn't seem to bother them and the FOS would be on their side. If they want to pay to my loan account then the FOS will agree with them, i know this from previous experience.

 

I know they have to pay me the interest they charged on PPI but they don't seem to understand this.

 

They put the consumer into a very difficult position because if I refuse, i'll have to wait a very long time at the FOS. And i might not even get anything like before.

[dx100uk]

if there are no arrears on any current accounts with them they cannot do that

 

 

 

you REALLY need to only be conversing in writing.

 

what did you send them in the first place, the typical fos customer questionaire and the SOC [spreadsheet?]

 

 

 

i would not ever trust any figure HFC give you

 

 

 

dx

[tifo]

I am thinking of taking a few credit card banks to court because my complaint to each has not been settled as the bank is unwilling to offer a refund to me.

 

I have been requesting information such as breakdown, agreement, assignment etc under CPR but the bank in each case will not send anything and I get the standard 'your complaint has not been upheld' letters again and again.

 

Should I issue proceedings but tell the court I need information from the bank before I can fully particularise my claim?

 

Or can I ask the court to make an order for the bank to provide me with the requested information?

 

Thanks

[rebel11]

Hi tif

 

Have you considered a SAR request, they have to send all the data on the account including to statements, they have 40 days to respond, it costs £10. Templates can be found in the library.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?552-Data-Protection

[tifo]

Have you considered a SAR request, they have to send all the data on the account including to statements, they have 40 days to respond, it costs £10. Templates can be found in the library.

 

I already have a copy of an 'agreement' (half page) and all my statements. This is what they offered to send for £1 and £10.

 

But I want specific information relating to default charges (which I know they won't send).

 

What does CPR say about requesting pre action information and does the other party HAVE to respond? If they don't then what's the point of these pre action protocols?

[rebel11]

Once proceedings are started you could use CPR31.14, but none of the Credit Card Companies have ever given their true costs of default charges, thats what your trying to establish.

[tifo]

Once proceedings are started you could use CPR31.14, but none of the Credit Card Companies have ever given their true costs of default charges, thats what your trying to establish.

 

Isn't CPR 31.14 not for small claims? This claim is for under £700 with statutory interest. £386 in charges and the rest interest.

 

I'm asking if there is anything to use BEFORE issuing proceedings, as it may save time and expense?

[rebel11]

Other then writing to them saying 'if they don't give you the information you request, you will request that information through the courts', I can't see any other way of obtaining that information.

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/guidance/courts-and-tribunals/courts/procedure-rules/civil/menus/rules.htm

[the_shadow]

Once you have issued a claim in court then ALL the CPR comes active and you can request under both CPR 31.14 for documents mentioned in statements of case and CPR18 for direct questions/informational queries..... Until the claim is allocated to track it is potentially a fast track claim.

 

The pre action protocol cpr 31.16 is not often granted and indeed one CAGGER got hit for a massive costs bill as this type of claim is NOT small claims, its allocated to the fast track. You could attempt to ask questions under the banner of CPUTR but then again as its not widely enforced they may ignore that as they have your previous letters.

 

I'm afraid the answer is No, there isnt a way to compel another party to disclose something without an order from the court.

 

S.

[tifo]

I'm afraid the answer is No, there isnt a way to compel another party to disclose something without an order from the court.

 

S.

 

That's bad news and not in the interests of justice .....

[the_shadow]

That's bad news and not in the interests of justice .....

 

Well CPR31.16 was designed for pre-trial disclosure in the "interests of justice" but unless you can back it up legally with a pretty good barrister as they will certainly defend fully with a top chambered barrister then you are looking at around 10k in costs if you lose.

 

S.

[tifo]

Well CPR31.16 was designed for pre-trial disclosure in the "interests of justice" but unless you can back it up legally with a pretty good barrister as they will certainly defend fully with a top chambered barrister then you are looking at around 10k in costs if you lose.

 

S.

 

So it's not in the interests of justice for the 'average' consumer, only those who can afford it. If the bank behaves unreasonably why should the consumer have to pay for something that the bank should provide anyway?

 

I'm not arguing the point, I just don't understand how it is fair in cases like this where the bank won't provide pre-trial info and the consumer has no choice but to take it to court.

[tifo]

By the way, i've already been through the FOS but got an unfair decision ..... the bank stuck to that until charges were over 6 years ago then uses the 6 year limitation.

 

The account was sold to a DCA, I paid it off in full with cash 3 months before asking the bank for default charges and PPI. The amount I paid off included charges and PPI plus associated interest. I had settlement letters from DCA.

 

The bank first offered to refund the DCA and they did the same at the FOS, who agreed with them, even though I showed that I'd settled in full before making my claim. The Ombudsman was of the opinion that even though i'd settled in full, the 'poor' bank hadn't been paid (by me) so they can either send the money to the DCA or pay it towards their write off. Nothing for me. The FOS said they're not bothered about the legal assignment because the bank still wasn't paid by me.

 

The above happened on 4 accounts and all the banks have taken the same stance. For 3 of the complaints at the FOS I had the same Adjudicator and Ombudsman who both made the same points across these complaints.

[the_shadow]

Well its fair if you can take the risk and win

 

I think the old adage is "who said life was fair" and its true... and dont get me started on the definition of justice.

 

S.

[tifo]

Well its fair if you can take the risk and win

 

S.

 

Sorry, i'm slightly confused .... I thought the claimant pays costs win or lose? If it's only on a lose then there's little risk because the claims are under £1,500 and the bank is likely to pay.

 

What i'm basing the case on is that the bank has already offered to refund charges and interest but their payment method to send the money to a DCA was unfair since (1) the account was fully paid and (2) the DCA was never a party to the complaint at the FOS.

 

The FOS have no powers to bring anyone else into a complaint (they told me) but seem to have the power (misused?) to pay someone else my money.

 

The bank has paid PPI and interest directly to me (after some letters back and forth) and raised no limitation or set-off for that refund, so why are they doing it for default charges? Both are for the same account.

[the_shadow]

If the claimant can show the other party has been unreasonable then they can argue they have been forced to take the CPR31.16 route and hence had to undertake the expense of court, its not a given either way and each case is dealt with on its merits.. there is case law for charging and case law for not charging depending on circumstances.

 

DONT FORGET CPR31.16 is not small claims, it is dealt with as trackless and hence the large costs implication. If you lose expect a large bill, if you win expect to be able to argue for costs from the other side.

 

S.

[the tinkerman]

Can only view page 1 of thread think cag is playing up

 

Was reading thread last week very interested in a comment I saw regarding adding PPI to loan then charging interest on full amount, sure I read somewhere within this thread or leading to another thread that stated if PPI was added to the loan then interest charged on the full amount that the loan was unenforceable if I am correct.

 

Question is if you owed a debt but PPI was applied as above can you still ask for the PPI back or will the loan just be deemed as unenforceable, that is if I have read correctly of course.

[dx100uk]

there was talk about multiple agreements in a large thread somewhere

 

i am no longer sure if this still applied today.

 

dx

[the tinkerman]

reason I am asking is

 

MY PPI issue is with HFC owe debt but PPI was added to loan and then interest added to the full amount and I have proof of that.

 

DX what do you mean by multiple agreements please

 

Anyone else have a take on this and how I should approach it please.

[dx100uk]

this is not your thread

and i dont understand what tyou are going on about

 

that sounds quite normal

int IS charged on the cash price of the PPI.

 

dx

[tifo]

I've recently had two decisions from the Financial Ombudsman which are not fair and reasonable.

 

(1) They decided that the arrears charges on my mortgage account are fair without asking the bank for a breakdown of how each charge was calculated for the breach it was applied for. The bank provided an estimate (equal to the charge) and applied this across future charges. The FOS decided that the charges were applied fairly because I was in arrears, not that they were fair because they reflect actual costs. I lost the benefit of UTCCRs and CCA 1974 unfair relationships. Total lost over £12,000 in charges and interest.

 

(2) They decided that the insurer in a building guarantee claim need not pay for remedies to the extensive damp and black mould I have on all upper floor ceilings, around all upper floor windows and on a few walls because it is not covered by a specific requirement. This is for a new build property. They accept that the loft insulation was laid wrongly. There is a specific policy clause for the builder to work with 'care, skill and in a workman-like manner'. They do not see the wrongly installed loft insulation which led to the extensive damp and black mould as a breach of this clause. They say liability is only a breach of a requirement. But they have not looked at any requirements for the roof area. Total lost over £20,000 in repair costs plus compensation for the many years of living with the damage and the claim.

 

(3) I have various claims for default charges on credit cards which were sold to DCAs and the FOS decided the bank can pay my refund to the DCA in each case when they have no power to join any other third party within a complaint. The unfairness of it is that in all cases I've settled the accounts in full at the DCA before I made my claims so I don't owe anything to the bank or the DCA. Total lost over £6,000 across all claims.

 

I'm now looking to take some sort of action against the FOS because i'm quiet sick of their bias against the consumer. I'm not excluding a judicial review (which costs a lot I know and again this is unfair) but also to take matters to Europe (they made the directives for the Ombudsman, UTCCR etc) or even the Govt (because they made the laws which give the FOS its powers to ignore the laws of the land). Maybe something along ECHR etc.

 

So where does a consumer go when they've been dealt with in this way by the FOS (other than take private action against the other party)?