Book Company Posing As DCA

[fairclaire]

Have any of you had dealings with BCA...a book company?

 

About three/four months ago I recieved a big package from royal mail van. I opened it and inside were 5 hardback books. I was puzzled as I hadn't bought any books and even if I did want to buy any they wouldn't have been the books that were in the package (sci-fi and stuff)

 

Anyway I read the invoice and other pieces of paper in an envelope inside the box....it said basically one of the books was free, I could keep the other 4 at some reduced price. But if i didn't want to them send them back...you are under no obligation...etc, etc

 

I telephoned the customer service number on the invoice asking why I had recieved these books, as I never asked for them. They said I must've ordered them...I said no I didn't...how did I order them? where did they get my details from etc...the lady i spoke to couldn't answer that but promised a return phonecall from her supervisor. No return phonecall so I rang back the next day. After repeating my story again I got to speak to a supervisor. her reply was that 'the system' doesn't give us any details, if you're not happy...send the books back. All very well I said but I estimated these heavy books would cost at least £10 to return and I wasn't prepared to pay £10 of my own money to return goods I never requested. I kindly asked if they would send a prepaid label or something similar. Her reply tothat was you send the books back and then apply to our head office for re-imbursement . Ok I said but will they re-imburse me? The converstion went downhill from there and in the end I said you sent me something I didn't ask for, I don't want it, I'm not prepared to pay out to send it back, please come and collect it.

 

I heard nothing for about 4 weeks then I started getting demands for £68.80. With the first 2 I tried telephoning and go the same waffle as before. After that I wrote after every demand(they arrive every 2 weeks or so) stating the same thing...give some proof I asked for these books, if you can't please collect them...I DO NOT WANT THEM! Then I started to get the same letters but in pretty red ink.

 

I have left them in no doubt where I stand and refuse to get my knickers in a twist over it. I have always been firm but polite. The books are in my cupboard in brand new/unread condition in original box and they are free to collect them at any time.

 

Then this morning I recieved a letter from GDR (Groundwell Debt Recovery). Didin't look right to mefrom the off, it was a really badly photocopied letterhead. I'm quite familiar with most of the main DCAs but never heard of this one so I looked up on companies house and it doesn't exist. At the bottom of the letter there is some teeny-weeny print. Used my sons specs to read it! and there was a company number there, so I typed that into companies house....guess what came up? BCA....what do they think they are doing?

 

It looks to me like they are calling themselves a 'debt recovery' company in order to scare people into paying money. This company doesn't exist and even if it is a company that is part of BCA should be registered as a company in their own right....hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong about this

 

The letter threatens legal proceedings blah blah. I intend to write to 'Groundwell debt recovery' tomorrow...would phone but strangely enough there is no phone number

 

Almost wish they would take me to court...wouldn't they look very stupid not being able to show how I 'ordered' these books and just who GDR are? How would they explain sending books to people for no apperent reason and then expecting payment for them?

 

Have been of a mind to send them a SAR but been ill and busy dealing with Barclays, Welcome and British Credit Trust. But maybe I will now.

 

Any others had dealings with these clowns?

[Bookworm]

Not quite like that, but yes. I was a member for a while, I fulfilled my membership, then they said I hadn't, so I had to buy more books, then they sent me the selection of the month (urgh) after I had cancelled, it took months to get rid of the buggers, same as you, unlimited phone calls, promises of couriers/free postage labels, while the increasingly menacing letters piled up... Oh, and they never sent me my free luggage set either, the swines.

 

In the end, I sent them a final letter saying that I would not waste another stamp or phone call on them, that I had proof I was paid up and cancelled when I had said I had, as well as all correspondence, and that I was putting them under formal notice that they had 14 days to collect the damn books or they would be treated as promotional material, to be disposed of as I wanted, and since I didn't want them, I would give them to my local charity shop.

 

14 days, nothing, and I promptly forgot about the box lying forlorn in my hallway, until a few months later when my son flooded the bathroom, which leaked in the hallway, and the mushy litterature they had sent me became papier-mache. Only the spiders mourned its passing.

[fairclaire]

thanks bookworm

 

That made me smile....I have carefully kept mine preserved for collection in my cupboard. If I had left them in my hall they would be in a state a shedder would be ashamed of by now.....it's a rule in my house when the tornado is awake AKA Jack.....DON'T LEAVE STUFF IN THE HALL!!

[andrew1]

I'd be of the mindset to reprot these guys to trading standards.

[fairclaire]

normally I'd agree with you but having had extensive dealings with TS recently ( and the lady i dealt with was really lovely and tried her best to be helpful) I find them to sit on the fence on pretty much whatever you take to them.

 

That is just my experience and by no means a slate to TS...they just didn't work for me

[Bookworm]

That may be true, Claire, but you need to look a bit further down the line... The more people complain about them, the more likely TS will eventually take action, and the better case they'll have into (ahem, alleged) sharp practices. That's what happened with Jemella (GHD hair irons), it took a lot of complaints before TS would act, but when they did, it resulted into prosecution against Jemella... It could be that your reporting will be the straw that breaks that bloody camel's back... ;-)

[elsinore]

Let's see, 16 weeks storage at well, say, ooh! er! £4.30 per week (very reasonable I would say). Oh! what a coincidence, that's £68.80!

Send them an invoice.

 

Elsinore

[Bookworm]

Elsie, I like the way you think!

[fairclaire]

I love it too!

 

Bookworm don't you wish you had stored your books??

 

 

lol

[Bookworm]

Are you kidding? And them then suing me for damaging their precious property whilst in my repository?

[fairclaire]

ok all joking aside....as enjoyable as it may be:)

 

What really is the best way to tackle this??

[elsinore]

Actually, I wasn't joking, fairclaire.

 

Happened to me a few years ago with some unsolicited CDs!

I sent them a matching bill for storage and heard no more from them.

They could have gone bust, of course!

 

Elsinore

[Bookworm]

Well, all joking aside, I did send them a letter stating they had 14 days to arrange collection at their expense, or it would be treated as unsolicited marketing material, and disposed of as stated above. And that truly was the last I heard of them.

[mutzi]

http://www.dti.gov.uk/consumers/buying-selling/unsolicited/index.html

 

Unsolicited Items

 

Under the Unsolicited Goods and Services Act 1971, (as amended) it is an offence to demand payment for goods known to be unsolicited, in other words, they were sent to a person without any prior request made by them or on their behalf.

Someone who receives goods in these circumstances may retain them as an unconditional gift, and does not have to pay for or return any unwanted goods. Anyone who receives a demand for payment for unsolicited goods should report the matter to their local Trading Standards Department.

 

....

 

 

[ScarletPimpernel]

Just came across this thread whilst looking for something else.

 

I had a membership with a book club, and one book I ordered didn't arrive - they said it was back-ordered. Anyway, a couple of weeks later I received a letter from a DCA - or at least that's what it seemed to be. A check on Companies House website revealed it to be part of the book club company. I rang their head office (rather than the 0870 number on the letter), and asked for the person who'd signed the letter.

 

She began by claiming I had to pay anyway, even if they hadn't yet supplied the book, and threatened Small Claims Court (for £14!). We then had a chat about company law, and why her DCA letterhead showed an incorrect registered office address, premium rate numbers, and how I'd welcome the opportunity to go to court. This produced a torrent of apologies and an explanation that this was just a part of her job that she didn't really like, and would I just tear up the letter....

[CleoDannie]

Hey everybody, first time poster.

 

Has anyone here had any dealings with Books Direct and Groundwell debt recovery/ CCScollect/ Meagher PLC?

 

Here is my story. I have tried to make it concise while putting across the full gist of my problem, so i apologise if it is a little long!!

 

I have been having problems recently with Books Direct (formally Mango).

 

Basically have been a good customer. have orderd books. Have paid for books. Have ticked box on their website when i didn't want to receive editors choice. On some occasions i forgot to do this on time. In which case i simply returned the book/s when received.

 

Anyway, on 1st May this year i returned 2 editors choices i hadn't ordered (one was for March and one was for April 2008). I got a letter demanding payment. I sent proof of the return (photocopied recorded delivery receipt) along with a letter asking to cancel my account (i no longer have a switch card to make payments and they do not take solo).

 

They sent a letter asking which titles were returned so they could trace them. I rang customer services and asked what the editors choices were for March and April. I did not open the packages before returning them, so i didn't know. I was then informed that they were actually chasing me for a book delivered to me way back in October of 2007!!

 

Now there were a couple of months at the end of last year that i did';t receive any books from them. I told them this and also stated that if i had received it i would have returned it. I was then told that my account with them had been cancelled in February 2008. I said if that were the case, why did they send me editors choices in March and April!! (I had proof of this by way of the returns receipt).

 

Anyway in June i got a letter from the famous Groundwell debt recovery and another one from CCScollect in July.

 

I contacted the book club via e mail and said i did not have the book, and didn't believe i had even received it. I also pointed out i still had records of returns made for february and april of 2007, so i would have one for october 2007. I ended the email by saying that if push came to shove i would be willing to go to my own expense and buy the book and return it to them. But i was not paying £37.23 for a book i was not even sure i received.

 

A few days later they sent me an e mail saying they had cleared my account and had instructed Meagher PLC to remove my details from their files and to ignor any further correspondance. At the time i assumed Meagher PLC was the debt collection company, even though i had never had any correspondance from them. This was at the end of July.

 

Three weeks later i get a letter from CCScollect demanding money. As i thought it was sorted, i phoned CCScollect just to be sure, whereby i was told that i now owed the money to them and they had never heard of Meagher PLC. I tried to explain that Books Direct had cleared my account, but they were having none of it.

 

So i phone books direct and got them to confirm that they had cleared my account, that i no longer owed them money, i no longer owed the debt collectors money and that they had informed the debt collectors of this. All of this was confirmed.

 

I then e mailed Books direct and asked for this confirmation in writing both via e mail and post. I said i would forward this to CCScollect. I phoned back CCScollect to tell them i would be doing this and they said fine.

 

That was 24 hours ago and i still have not heard from books direct. I know the amount of time seems minimal but they are usually very quick to respond. If i do not hear from them by this time tomorrow i will simpy forward the e mail they sent me at the end of July to CCScollect.

 

So my question is this: I know some of you have dealt with Groundwell debt recovery and i know they are basically a front for the book club. But what about CCScollect and Meagher PLC? I checked out both websites and Meagher PLC seem more like they would be representing the ordinary consumer than a company. CCScollect had minimal information.

 

Have spoken to my sisters (both well versed in law) and they have istructed me not to pay anything, though one of them DID say that if the book club hadn't requested my details be remoed then the debt colletors had every right to chase me.

[pt2537]

hi, i have just started my battle with these,

 

out of the blue i had a letter claiming i owed them money???? Yeah right

 

so ive just fired off a nice little email to them, i will let you know what they have to say for themselves

[sterobbo]

I posted this a couple of weeks ago on another forum:

 

I saw an offer in a TV mag last year, for the complete works of Roald Dahl for £4.99 so I took it up, it turns out it was with a book club called Books for Children, one of these clubs where you have to purchase 4 books in your first year of membership.

 

I got an unsolicited call one day from Books for Children's collecters edition team offering me the Famous Five collection, paying it off monthly, and they said this would satisfy my 4 books in the year obligation. As I was a big fan of Enid Blyton as a child, I thought a bit of nostalgia would be nice and took the offer up.

 

Some months later, I got a letter saying I hadn't satisfied my 4 books obligation, I rang them up to be told that the collecters edition team was entirely seperate and that they had lied to me. I spoke to the collecters edition team, and told them I was returning the books and I wanted a refund, to which they agreed. I returned the books via their courier service at the beginning of July, now they are claiming to have not received them, this coming after they referred me to a debt collection agency, after having agreed to refund and cancel the agreement.

 

Meanwhile, the normal book club have invoiced me for 4 books, their monthly 'Editors Choice' books. 3 of which have never been delivered to me, the other one I arranged for a returns label to be sent out for, 6 weeks ago. This label has not arrived. Now I have received an invoice for £62. Can someone please provide a template so I can demand that they cancel the contract outright due to the incredibly poor service and lies? I have tried to call them, but am constantly getting the message that the queue is over 20 minutes.

 

 

 

I rang shortly after having received an email from them demanding the balance, and told them that I wanted the book collected and the account cancelled. Today, I received a letter from Groundwell Debt Collection demanding £70 odd. I rang BCA and demanded to speak to a manager. The manager came on and advised that my account had been cancelled and that the balance cleared which he will confirm to me in writing. I shall wait to receive this written confirmation now, but this company are an absolute [problem].

[andrew1]

What you should do is write and tell them your gripes and inform them that the books are there waiting for collection. Storage will cost them £5 for every day they remain on your property. That'll get em moving.

 

 

[j2j007]

My troubles started earlier this year around April time when my wife saw a link to some old style winnie the pooh books that went perfectly with our new sons nursery, it was a set 5 books for only £5.99, so she opened an account with BFC and ordered the Winnie Pooh books for this discounted offer. About 4 weeks later a parcel arrived from BFC, thinking it was the books she had ordered she open the parcel only to find a different set of books. I contacted BFC to arrange collection only to be told they would not talk to me as the account was in my wife's name, so when my wife got home she phoned the number and was on hold for 20 mins before she put the phone down, she then went on to her account online and found a return mail template that can be stuck on the parcel to return at the post office for what I thought was free, after waiting another 4 weeks for her parcel she called up to cancel the order of the Winnie the Pooh and to get a credit put on her account, all to which was agreed.

 

Then the following week she receives an invoice/statement for roughly £25 for the winnie the pooh that never arrived, the parcel that was never ordered and retured and £2.99 returns charge.

 

I wrote a letter on my wifes behalf explain everything that had happened and asking them to credit my wifes account and to then close it, I did not receieve a reply for another 4 weeks, and so sent another letter to prompt them that I had already sent a letter and that I would appreciate a reply to confirm that all had been credited and the account was now closed.

 

After waiting another week I finally received a letter confirming that all had been done as instructed in my letter and that the case as such was now closed.

 

BANG........2 weeks later a parcel arrives from BFC full of books we did not order totally another £25, I logged on to my wifes account and it was still active, but showed that the first parcel had been returned but that the Winnie the pooh was still outstanding as was the delivery charges and also this new delivery of books.

 

So as before I printed off a returns template and sent it back, only this time I wrote a little note saying "Dont even think about charging me for returning this !!!!!"

 

Two days later my wife received a letter from BFC stating that all charges relating to returns would be credited to her account, a when I checked online, true to their word a credit had been put on the account for £5.98 to take of the two returns charged, I was also pleased to see that all returns regarding books was upto date, how ever there was still an outstanding balace of £5.99 relating to the Winnie the Pooh. It was at this time I notice the "do not sent me editors choice" box that I promtly ticked.

 

I wrote another letter on behalf of my wife, asking for these monies to be credited as we had cancelled the order and had not received the books, and once again ststed that my wife wished for her account to be closed, again no reply for about 2 weeks and then out of the blue on the door mat a final notice from BCA for £5.99 regarding the Winnie the Pooh books.

 

As it was a final notice I regretably decided to pay the £5.99 and used the bank details on the back of the BFC statement to transfer the money.

I then wrote a very strong letter to the Finance Director of BCA/BFC telling him exactly what I thought of his company and the manner in which they do business, to date I have had no reply.

 

I waited a few days to allow the transfer to go through and then logged on to my wifes account to check that it had been allocted correctly, to my disbelief the credit had been removed relating to the returns charges and my transfer of £5.99 had been allocated against theses charges still leaving me with an outstanding balance of £5.99.

 

I phoned them up only to once again be told they would not talk to me even though I ask to speak to a manager, having no choice I then wrote another letter demanding that this account be credited to zero and closed immediatly, enclosing a copy in date order of every correspondence that I had sent on my wifes behalf and every correspondence she had received from them along with copies of all receipts from the post office.

 

After about a month passing and having received no reply regarding my letter I logged on to my wifes account to surprisingly see that my wifes account was at zero, and that the Winnie the pooh order had been removed from her account, her account was still active but at least it was at zero, I made sure the "do not send me editors choice" was still ticked, and thankfully we have recieved no further parcels since. I thought that the matter was closed and so thought nothing more of it.

 

Today my wife receives a notice of recovery from Groundwell Debt recovery for £8.93 relating to unpaid monies to BCA. I looked up Groundwell Dept Recovery and it is not a proper company just a name BCA use to scare people in to paying.

 

However I then noticed the account number on the letter is completely different to the one my wife used to login and that is on all the other correspondence we have received from BFC, and when you search for the new account number on the BFC site in comes up with "invalid account number".

 

I took time to look in to this further and it seems they have opened up a new account in my wifes name with BCA and transfer the outstanding dept form her BFC account to this new account, finding this out I was ready to explode, I called them up and demanded to speak to a manger, once again they tried to fob my off with the we can only talk to account holder, I then explain that I had looked in to the dealings within their company regarding setting up and account with out my wifes permission, sending a notice of recovery in the name of a company that is not registered and all the correspndence I had as proof that my wife owed no money, once I said this the gentleman calmly said that all monies owed would be wiped from there system along with my wifes details and that we will recieve to further correspondence from them, he also said this would be sent out in writing within the next 48hrs.

 

I will update later in the week to let you if I have "won" or if BCA have told yet more lies.

 

ps Sorry for any spelling mishaps

Edited October 20, 2008 by j2j007

[worm_master]

Hi I had a letter come though the post today. I took a look at it and thought it was a phoney so I went and grabbed my last statement form my bookclub.(Which in all fairness i have never had a problum befoue with late payments)

 

I only owe £31 not £53 that GDR where claming........ What worries me the most is that they have my membership Number.. If they have that what else do they have.. And how did they get my adress.. I should point out as was mentiond in an eirler post that ANY corrispondince form a Debt Company or some-one claming 2 b a debt company shoul list contact details in order that u can sort out any problums.. If it has no contact details then it is proberly a fake and u should check the company out on the web like I did. And then contact your bookclub..

 

Worm_master

[dianag]

Hi All,

 

I have been reading your posts with great interest. I had the exact same problems with Books Direct. Signed up for an interesting offer, which I received THREE MONTHS LATER!!! I was not aware of any ties when I signed up, but I did find out about them when trying to close my account! Have to make a purchase of something like £24 to be allowed to close my account! This is disgacefull! Anyway, as I found some books that could interest me I thought I could meet this demand, buy the boks I want, close my account after. Not as easy as I thought, you see, there is "the editor's choise" which alegedly had been sent to me every months. Well, I did receiv one a couple of month ago and nothing else. I have been trying for all these months to return the unrequired books (three in total that month) in order to be able to buy the ones I really want and, close my account.

 

Despite having numerous promisses from the customer care department and the head office, nothing was made for these books to be collected from my house. I explained that I have no intention to pay for the return of these items, which were not equired by me and I was advised that a courier will come to collect them. No sing of it! They are still after me to collect money for these books, despite the fact they offered to collect them and me explaining to them that I have no intention to pay for the items I did not required. At times the ammouint I presumelly owe them would go up, as they would add "late payment charges" which are later removed from my account as I challenge them and complain. However, the £22 they want to charge me for the unrequired books are still outstanding in myaccount, whatever I do! They are quite smart, as they were asking me all the time to pay them the amount that is outstanding in my account and sort it out later, but I always refused to pay any penny.

 

I allready had two letters from the debt collectors (GDR) and when I tried to look them up on the net I cam accross your postings. After reading your posts, I sent an e-mail to the head office requesting the charges to be removed from my account and my account closed by the end of this week, if not I will complain to the TS. I also advised them that the books will be available for collection from my address for the next two month ONLY and if not collected they will be disposed of! Initialy I sent a more mild e-mail, requesting only for the books to be collected and the charges removed, with the intention to make the required purchase in order to close my account, but at least to get the books I want. But I now see they are not worth the pain and with the way they conduct business, I have no assurance that if I make the require purchase I will be able to close my account. Further more, they are not worth our hard worked money when all they do is to con people in order to make a profit! They should be ashamed of themself, and such practices should be banned and people who lead such businesses should be prosecuted! This is a [problem] and I woul be verry happy if we would start a legal campain against these people.

[andrew1]

You should also check your credit files to see whether they have issued defaults on you. This could affect your credit rating and in getting credit and you don't find out until you apply for credit somewhere.

 

Contact the company and ask if there have been any adverse markers applied to your account in the first instance, be sure to get a satisfactory answer and inform the to remove it if they have.

[alfwithhair]

Wife recieved a box of unordered books just before xmas, now she got a letter from these GDR Groundwell clowns this morning demanding £58, show creditor as Books Direct.

 

Are these book clubs governed by the CCA Act or not. Tey don't actually offer credit more a pay upon receipt of goods policy.

 

Would it be worth senting a CCA request about this or not.

 

Thanks

Alf

[alfwithhair]

I emailed companies house about these groundwell lot, metioned that they used someone elses address and company number and no way of contacting them no signitory, they usual stuff

 

Got a reply earlier

 

Thank you for your email.

 

There maybe a possible breach of section 82 of the Companies Act 2006, however we would require evidence to support your claim. If you have already emailed the evidence I can only apologise that this has not made it through to us.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Technical Offences Team

 

>>> "Companies House Enquiries" enquiries@companies-house.gov.uk> 22/01/2009 16:02 >>

So am faxing them a copy of the letter and will let you know what the outcome is