Stratstone - Issues with in car electronics linking to phone since taking delivery

[Manxman in exile]

Your consumer rights are enforceable against the dealer you bought it from.

 

But you may have muddied the waters by bringing it to a second dealer while the first dealer was still trying to fix the original problem.  I'm afraid your post is a bit confusing as to which dealer has done what to the car and when.

 

Your consumer rights sometimes depend on the timeline - so it might be useful if you provided one.

 

eg date bought from dealer 1; date issue identified by you; date you notified the issue to dealer 1; what dealer 1 did and when; date car returned to you; date car referred by you to dealer 2; what dealer 2 did and when; etc etc; where the car is now

 

The two most important time periods are (1) the period up to 30 days after you took possession of the car, and (2) the period up to 6 months after you took possession.

[Manxman in exile]

If @axil123 wants his money back, can't he just reject the car now?

 

Seems like both the selling dealer in manchester and the dealer in Newcastle (authorised by the selling dealer?) have each had a go at fixing the car and have either (a) not fixed the problem or (b) made it worse - if I've understood axil correctly.

 

As it's all within 6 months can't he just reject it for a full refund?  (I'm never sure but might he have to pay mileage for the use of the car in the 6 months?  I'm never sure if cars are treated differently from everything else, and if they are, why... )

 

@axil123  -  out of interest, it's not a Jag or a Range rover is it?

[Manxman in exile]

Regarding the 6 months I think you are covered because you notified them immediately you took delivery of the car and you've reminded them several times since then by asking for updates on progress.  I don't think the dealer could argue that the fault didn't manifest itself within the first 6 months and that you hadn't notified them of it.

 

But in any case I'm sure @BankFodder's advice in #3 to get something formal in writing to the dealer sooner rather than later is correct.  (Post a draft up here before sending anything)

 

NB - post up the agreement as requested by @dx100uk.  HP agreements can be different regarding the approach you take as I don't think you've actually bought the car until you've made the last payment...

Edited December 13, 2022 by Manxman in exile

[Manxman in exile]

@axil123  -  don't panic!  

 

What you need to do is to draft a letter to send to the dealer you bought it from.  Post the draft up here for people like @BankFodder to read and give you guidance.  Don't send anything without letting people read it and comment on it.

 

All you need to do is to briefly refer to the purchase, outline the faults you notified to the dealer, and highlight their failure to fix them (and even make matters worse by introducing new faults).

 

Tell them that as the faults appeared within the first six months, and as the dealer has had the single opportunity afforded to them under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 to put right the fault(s), but has failed to do so, you are now exercising your right under the same legislation to reject the car.

 

As I say, just draft it but don't send it off until others have had a chance to comment on it.

 

There might be two problems:  (1) I think that if you reject the car you need to stop using it immediately and arrange to retruen it to the dealer (2) I'm not sure of the significance of it being HP.

 

Others will know better than me.  Wait to see what they have to say.

 

46 minutes ago, Homer67 said:

I bet it's a Jag, very common problem on those especially XF models. The electronics are shocking.

If it was mine I'd be rejecting it and saving myself a whole host of issues further along as the electronics degrade further, oh and a heads up: never, ever disconnect the battery or you'll need to get it towed to a main dealer who will charge you £600 to 'reset the software' an utter rip off disguising a serious known fault with the whole range. Next time stick to German cars!

 

I wondered that but he says it's neither a Jag nor a Range Rover...

 

I'm thinking it might actually be German!

[Manxman in exile]

Much as I would love to own a prancing horse I suspect they are rather fragile, and a fault that manifests itself on day 1 of ownership is not a good omen.  Also likely to be v expensive in the long run?  Personally I'd reject it now otherwise you'll be constantly anxious that something else is just about to break.

 

Draft a letter of rejection as @BankFodder suggested and post it up for comment.  Don't send anything to them yet.

 

I don't think there is any issue posting up the docs or @dx100uk wouldn't have asked for them.  Redact anything that could identify you.  (I'm not sure if you need to redact the dealer and finance company - I think we know who the dealer is from the title of this thread?).  I'm not sure if it being HP complicates matters.  Others probably want to check the contrcat details.

 

I understand you need to post the documents up in PDF format.  There's a guide to doing it somewhere on the website if you don't know how.

 

(I think I'd go German.  An old 911 would be very nice... )

[Manxman in exile]

Hmmm.  If I'm looking at the correct website I'm assuming we are talking a LOT of money?  (The cheapest pre-owned currently on the website is £89,900 if I'm looking in the right place.  And going up to around 400k?).

 

Personally I'd want out.  If it ends up in a dispute that's WAY over small claims limit, and I'd be getting prepared to get paid for legal advice if necessary.

 

(Hopefully I've misunderstood your reference to an "Italian horse" and I'm looking at the wrong website, or I've vastly over-inflated the money involved... ?)

Edited December 13, 2022 by Manxman in exile

[Manxman in exile]

OK.  That makes it serious money.  Doesn't change the principles involved but means there's more at stake for you in getting this right.  I understand why you might be a bit anxious.

 

See what others have to say

 

(Forgive me asking, but from your opening post I assume this wasn't a frivolous "playboy lifestyle" purchase?  It's a dream car and it's taken years of sacrifice from you to be able to save up for the deposit?  So this money is REALLY important?  And just to be clear - I'm not making any judgement at all about how you spend your money.  I perfectly understand it).

[Manxman in exile]

I'll just make a couple of further comments before leaving this for others to pick up.

 

1.  You bought car on 26 July and immediately notified dealer of bluetooth fault.  They said they'd raise a ticket.  You chased this a few times but when you were finally referred to the dealer's service dept over two months later they told you no ticket had ever been raised?!  I'd suggest that that could be construed as their one permitted attempt under the legislation to fix the problem and they bungled it - by doing sweet FA!

 

2.  When you went to the dealer in Newcastle, I'm a bit surprised they told you that the fault wasn't covered by the warranty because it was present at purchase.  Is that why the Manchester dealership had to pay the Newcastle one for the work they did?  And it's further evidence (from the Newcastle dealership) that the fault was present at purchase!

 

3.  Consumers are normally advised to pursue their statutory consumer rights under the legislation rather than any warranties - unless the warranty is extremely unusual in that it offers better protection than statute.  I suppose that as this is a very high value purchase of a prestige marque from (presumably an equally prestigeous) authorised dealer, that it might be worthwhile checking the T&Cs of the warranty to see what it covers.

 

4.  I personally don't know what - if any - difference it makes that this is a HP purchase.

[Manxman in exile]

1 hour ago, axil23 said:

 

....

3. Not sure what you mean by that as the dealer has advised me that any faults before you buy the vehicle are not covered under warranty. 

 

 

What I meant about the warranty is this:  most people who have bought a used car and have problems with it - especially within the first six months - are advised to pursue the dealer by enforcing their statutory rights as a consumer under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (legislation.gov.uk) rather than by pursuing any warranty rights.  That is because most used car warranties are so limited and so restricted that they aren't worth the paper they are written on. 

 

(But - in the highly unlikely event that a warranty offered the consumer better protection than the legislation, it might be better for the consumer to use the warranty rather than their statutory rights.  I doubt that is the case here, but, bearing in mind it's a Ferrari from an authorised dealer, I suppose I was speculating as to just how good the terms of a 2 year Ferrari warranty actually are...)

 

You probably should have gone back to the dealer in the first place and told them you were using your statutory consumer right to reject the car, not their warranty. As I've tried to explain above, you probably ought to forget the warranty as it almost certainly will not give you even equivalent  protection to the legislation, let alone better.

 

However, because you seem to have tried to get it fixed under warranty, the Newcastle dealer happily appears to have confirmed that the fault was present when you bought the car and that the Manchester dealer should have fixed it before selling it to you.  It seems to me that that confirms that the car was sold to you in a faulty condition and that you ought to be able to reject it under the legislation for a refund.  

 

Do you have any evidence from the Newcastle dealer telling you this?  A letter, an email, a text?

 

HOWEVER...  before you get too excited and think this will be easy to resolve, you really need to see what other posters make of this situation.  I'm not a lawyer and I'm not an expert on how the legislation I've referred to above relates specifically to the "sale" on HP of used cars.  It might be more complicated and more difficult than I've suggested...

 

Also I'm concerned that you've got £170k potentially at stake here.  Personally - were I in that situation - I think I might want to pay to get professional legal advice.

 

[Manxman in exile]

45 minutes ago, axil23 said:

Yes I have a email confirming that since the fault was there at the time of delivery it would not be covered by the warranty. I was hoping to not get any solicitors involved. I love the car and am still hopeful for a resolution hence why I have been so patient...

 

So you have an email from an authorised dealer telling you that the fault was, or must have been, present when you took delivery of the car?  I would have thought that was very much to your benefit from a consumer rights point of view.

 

But as I said earlier, see what others think.  You've got a lot at stake and I'm not 100% confident on used car cases.  I don't feel qualified to give you definite advice...

[Manxman in exile]

Glad you've found a solution to your satisfaction.

 

I'm not a lawyer (and I'm not giving you legal advice) but I'd have thought that if the same problem comes back again, then you'd be entitled to reject it as they would already have had an opportunity to rectify it and they had failed.  If it's the same problem, then the one attempt they are allowed didn't work.

 

(But wait and see what others say.  Don't just rely on me as you've spent a lot of money on this purchase.)

 

IIRC you had notified the original dealer of the problem when you took delivery of the car, plus the second dealer in Newcastle has kindly provided you with an email confirming that the fault must have been present at purchase.  Those two points are both in your favour.

 

However:

 

(1) as I understand it, after 6 months you might only get a partial refund.  I believe the original dealer will be entitled to deduct from the full refund an amount to reflect the use you have had from the car between taking delivery and you rejecting it.  How that amount might be determined in respect of a £170,000 supercar, I don't know.  But I suppose it might be quite a large sum.  (I simply don't know).

 

(2) I believe you said you'd acquired the car on some sort of PCP deal or similar.  Whether that affects your consumer rights as I've outlined above, I simply don't know.  From a consumer protection point of view the law sometimes treats outright purchases differently from things like HP and lease deals.

 

(3)  As I've posted previously, I think a £170,000 purchase is a lot of money to rely just on answers from an online forum.

 

[Edit:  One other note of caution.  I'm assuming that the fault - getting your 'phone to connect to the car via Bluetooth? - would be considered a sufficiently serious fault to justify rejection if it came to it.  Again I don't know.

 

Anyway - hope the car stays good and you don't need to consider anything other than enjoying it!]

Edited January 2, 2023 by Manxman in exile