CEL PCN ANPR Claimform - NHS Lease Car - Tenerife Buildings, Station Road, South Gosforth, Newcastle, NE3 1QD ***Claim Discontinued***

[lookinforinfo]

It would be a help if you could at least get a copy of the PCN sent to the NHS and post it here.. The NHS have outed you as the driver which means the NHS should not get any further correspondence from CEL.

As dx100uk said that it looks as if they have sent you the wrong kind of PCN but maybe not important as they cannot pursue the NHS as registered keeper anyway. 

However the Government are bringing out a new Code of Practice designed to rein in the crooked practices of certain parking companies. Although the parking crooks have been given time to incorporate certain features of the new Act into their paperwork , signs and contracts with land owners the Act expects that other changes that can be brought in now should be.

what sticks out with your PCN is the time you overstayed. The new Act stresses that the parking time is not the same time as depicted on their cameras.

It obviously takes several minutes to drive from the entrance to a parking place and park. equally obvious to everyone but the parking crooks is that it takes several minutes again to pull out of the parking place and drive to the exit.

if you have children or disabled passengers then further time may be necessary to allow for them to leave and enter the car.

On top of that there is a grace period which allows drivers to read and understand the signs so there is an allowance of 10 minutes for that.

Additionally the new Act does allow for emergencies such as illness, car breakdown and one would imagine feeding a young baby  to be taken into account.

that takes care of the overtime which is the basis for the ticket.

One would hope that CEL will realise in time that they have no chance of getting any money awarded to them in Court should it ever get that far.

just relax and ignore them content in the knowledge that you have the Law on your side.

It does not mean that until the penny drops with them  that they will continue to write demanding ever increasing amounts of money from you.

Those overcharges have been described by Government ministers as a rip off so no worries there either.

Eventually they may decide to give up though doubtful if they will let you know. 

[lookinforinfo]

Kplanet having worked [many years ago ] similar hours to yours I can sympathise . But DX does the same now, day in and day out. He also covers many different sections of CAG to help people who are having various different problems-a bit like yourself in a way.

He came to CAG several months after me and in that time I have posted on here over 6000 posts. DX in a shorter time has posted over 155,000 posts!

It would be unusual if he had not upset some people posting that often but it is nothing personal its just that he doesn't have the time to be totally personable at the same time.

By the way we don't just help people who want a small piece of advice, we also give loads of help when needed.

For example that was a dreadful letter [dreadful in the sense of bordering on unlawful at least] and merits a complaint to Trading Standards.

If TS uphold the complaint CEL may decide to cancel your PCN. If you want, I can do it for you and you can then forward it to TS. [I am in the middle of a complaint to the SRA about one of their solicitors].

Just in case the complaint doesn't work DX was right that you will need to acquire at least a basic knowledge of PoFA and parking laws in case you end up in Court to give you an even better chance of beating them.

[lookinforinfo]

When you received your PCN did you also receive

• a copy of the PCN sent to the NHS;
• a copy of the lease that you have with the NHS;
• a copy of the document where you accept responsibility for parking charges incurred while keeping the car 
• a letter from the NHS to CEL confirming you were the person leasing the car on the day of the alleged breach.

 

The most likely is that they just sent you the PCN considering it should as such should only have given you 21 days to respond not 28 days.

Have seen a Notice to Hirer as opposed to a Notice to keeper.

The poor dears do not seem to have remembered that the car is on lease and a

You have more chance of being made a member of the order of the Garter than losing this case if they have not sent the above documents along with the PCN.

[lookinforinfo]

I take it that all you received from CEL was just the PCN and the wrong one at that. That means that you cannot lose in Court. They have failed to comply with the requirements necessary for them to be able to pursue you as the keeper, the driver or the hirer.

Protection of Freedoms Schedule 4 Section 14  [1])......................................................

the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer.

(2)The conditions are that—

(a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper;

(b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed; and

 as they haven't sent you all the other documents and given you 28 days rather than 21 days, their case is dead in the water.

They cannot claim against you because they have not kept to the conditions necessary for them to have a case against you.

 

[lookinforinfo]

If CEL keep on bringing  cases like yours to Court they will end up being the pop corn sellers at the door.

[lookinforinfo]

Kplanet you have nothing to worry about as they will lose the case against you should they be stupid enough to take you to Court.

Why ? 

You are the hirer of the vehicle and CEL have totally failed to observe the terms of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

Once they received the notification that the NHS were leasing the vehicle to you CEL had to comply with the Act relating to hirers. They didn't so they cannot hold you responsible for the charge.

How they failed-

1] when they received the advice that you were hiring the vehicle they should have sent you a Notice to Hirer not a Notice to Driver. Included with the PCN there should have been a copy of the original PCN sent to the NHS; a copy of the hire agreement between you and the NHS and a copy of the contract that showed you were the driver at the time and that you had agreed to be responsible for breaches of the Law .

2] the PCN they should send to hirers gives a time allowance of 21 days to comply with the Act. They sent you the wrong PCN which gave 28 days to comply.

As they didn't comply with the Act they do not have the right to pursue you and the court will throw out the case should it get that far.

To confirm what I said above this is a copy of Schedule 4 Section 14 [2] from PoFA

"the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer.

(2)The conditions are that—

(a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper;

(b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed; 

So the Creditor cannot recover the charges from you because they didn't send you a Notice to Hirer, they didn't send you a copy of the Notice to Keeper they sent to the NHS, they didn't send you the 13[2] copied documents and they gave you 28 days not the 21 days required.

 

13[2]states

"(a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement;

(b)a copy of the hire agreement; and

(c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement.

There is no way on God's earth that CEL can win with that number of mistakes.

I would have thought that on reading the above in your WS that they would cancel the Court case.

[lookinforinfo]

There are a couple of details on the first part of an very good WS.

Even though you will win anyway I would still use "the driver" rather than I on 4.1

I would leave out 4.2 altogether since it indicates that the driver is more likely to be female.

5.2 is quite confusing since some of it is explaining how the keeper can be eliminated from paying. All you need is the second part of Schedule4 Section 13[2][a][b][c] which is referred to by you in 5.1

5.2 The documents required from Section 13[2] are

(a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement;

(b)a copy of the hire agreement; and

(c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement.

I did not receive any of those documents nor a copy of the NTK sent to the keeper.

Instead I  received a new NTK  giving me 28 days to respond as opposed to receiving a Notice to Hirer with 21 days to respond.

5.3 I respectfully submit therefore that as the Creditor has failed on every point to comply with the Act that they are precluded from recovering any of their charges from the Defendant.

[lookinforinfo]

I can understand your disappointment . It would have been so goood to see them humiliated in Court.however a win is a win so congratulations on stick and well doe for all the work you put in. 

Wonder what made them cancel?