Lowell/Overdales Claimform - old Lloyds TSB loan facilitated by Loans Direct debt subject to existing 2009 CCJ ***Claim Discontinued***

[AndyOrch]

A case of the left hand not knowing what the right is doing ...ignore everything except the courts directions as and when to do what.

[AndyOrch]

Do not submit the above if the debt is already subject to a judgment....I will pop in tomorrow and advise.

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Have you got details of the original judgment ...claim number date of judgment ?

[AndyOrch]

You could check the Land Registry if not already to see if a Charge was placed in connection to the judgment or make an inquiry with the Registry Trust from their archives. 

 

https://www.registry-trust.org.uk/

 

[AndyOrch]

 

Help Topics

WWW.TRUSTONLINE.ORG.UK

 

[AndyOrch]

No the defence above is totally unsuitable for a claim for a debt which has already been adjudged. You cant get a CCJ twice for the same debt...Res Judicata would apply here and a defence would have to be specifically drafted to challenge the claim .....with or without evidence if you cant confirm details of the judgment.....if drfated the correct way.

[AndyOrch]

Have you checked the Land Registry ? Was the CCJ at the old or new address (2009) ...when did you change address?

 

 

 

.

[AndyOrch]

Well it wont show anything they fall away after 6 years.....hence my post #9 to request specifically information on historic archive.

 

So what about the Land Registry with regards to your old property and to see if a charge was placed on your deeds ?

[AndyOrch]

Fair enough simply a process of elimination ...and you are absolutely sure that this debt has already been subject to litigation and it resulted in a default judgment. 

 

I can draft you a Res Judicata defence but just need to sure up the time frame.

The CCJ you think was issued around ?  Its no longer showing on your credit files which would indicate its older than 6 years.

 

Quote

I do recall defaulting in  2008/09 and recall it dropping off my credit file approx Oct 2015.

 

The above is not real guidance as to the claim date or judgment date...unfortunately. 

[AndyOrch]

Around that period Lloyds were litigating direct rather than assigning debt through a DCA. Their favored Solicitors that dealt with court claims were SCM based in Sussex....not sure if that rings any bells ?

 

Quote

What confuses me now, thinking about it, is that Lowell claim to have taken over the debt from Lloyds in June 2018, yet I made payments to Lowell for this debt up until July 2017.  I've gone back and checked my bank statements

 

What date did the payments start and how much have you paid them ? ...what was the reference of payment in connection to with Lowell ?

 

 

 

.

[AndyOrch]

https://www.talkaboutdebt.co.uk/debt-collection-directory/sechiari-clark-and-mitchell-solicitors/

 

[AndyOrch]

Your deadline is Friday 4th March by 4.00pm. If you could get any information re DD that would be helpful because if we are to submit Res Judicata we have to build a credible history which reflects that a CCJ was attained in or around 2010.It wont be for the claimant to prove that there wasn't a judgment but for you to prove there was.

 

I have a nagging feeling that Lowells were not litigating on LLoyds debts around that time...that is what concerns me.

Find out what you were paying Lowell's for...this is imperative....even if you have to ring them.

[AndyOrch]

Quote

Would a redacted version of this be useful? 

 

Absolutely 

[AndyOrch]

Only there is anything in regards to this debt and a CCJ mentioned in the document.

[AndyOrch]

Okay so now work out a figure of paid amount from x date to last payment when you stopped.

[AndyOrch]

On 28/02/2022 at 21:40, j70han said:

3.The debt was legally assigned to us on 29/06/2018, notice of which has been given to the defendant. 

 

I wonder who assigned it to them ?  " under an agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 for a Lloyds banking group account with the reference XXXXXX "

[AndyOrch]

Just some posts from the original topic for easy reference.

 

No, Lloyds obtained a CCJ then seemed to just leave it.  I was never ordered by the court to pay anything.  I voluntarily agreed to pay £15 per month via telephone call.  

 

 

20220216_110217.jpg(1).PDF

[AndyOrch]

Fully agree with my collogue DX im not convinced....still a simple way to resolve this as I have already suggested is to ring them....tell them your currently dealing with their claim form and wish to enquire about the other debt you were paying up until 03/07/2013. Is this the same debt ask the reference number of the old.

 

Im sure they will be helpful then we know what we are dealing with and can prepare the correct type of defence. If we submit a res judicata there is no changing it or going back to amend so we have to be certain this Debt has already been adjudged.

 

 

[AndyOrch]

Right can of worms......always pays to file paperwork away for at least 6/8 years.

 

Their particulars state that it was a Lloyds account with the reference XXXXXX  assigned to Lowells in June 2018.

I would contact Wetcloths and find out what account /debt you was paying them £30 pm ?  because you really should know where that money went and to whom and for what debt.

 

Still have a couple of days to get to the bottom of this but its vital to the proposed defence.

 

 

 

[AndyOrch]

CPR 15.5 May be useful here...but you will have to agree and move sharpish

Agreement extending the period for filing a defence

15.5

(1) The defendant and the claimant may agree that the period for filing a defence specified in rule 15.4 shall be extended by up to 28 days.

(2) Where the defendant and the claimant agree to extend the period for filing a defence, the defendant must notify the court in writing.

 

 

 

.

[AndyOrch]

Verbally wont cut it you require it in writing (email will suffice)...then use email to inform the court....followed up by hard copy.......you would get the full 28 days extra. The claimant cant delay the process by verbally agreeing this with you.....only the court.

 

If this fails we can still file a modified defence and then a fully particulrised account later in the process once we get to allocation.

[AndyOrch]

Let me clarify

 

By "  withhold action  " this simply means they will not request judgment before 16th March 4.00pm should you not have filed a defence by this date.

 

The process is that you have 33 days in total once you have acknowledged service and stated you intend to defend all of the claim ....they cant request judgment until this period has expired. They could request judgment once it has expired IE Monday 7th 4.00pm (CCBC will not action anything over a weekend)

 

Its pointless writing to CCBC that you have been given verbal notice that an extension has been agreed up until 16th March. Not unless CPR 15.5  has been agreed and put in writing do you have any protection so you really are trusting the claimant to honor their word....risky.

 

So given that they will not consent we push on and will have a defence ready for tomorrow...not ideal but it will give you breathing space and allow further time to get to the bottom of this debt. I can draft a mixture of holding and disputed type of defence I can imply that is is thought the debt is already subject to a judgment although I'm unsure now we see that there was a loan and an overdraft in question with Lloyds.

This is muddying the waters.

[AndyOrch]

 

 

 

Particulars of claim.pdf

[AndyOrch]

 Sorry...I dont follow ?

[AndyOrch]

I didn't ask anything I already know the breakdown of claim....The particulars are for my reference only when drafting the response you do not submit it with your defence.

 

I would be more interested on your thoughts on the amendments and additions I have made and the reasoning and that you are happy with the proposed defence?