Britannia/BW ANPR PCN PAPLOC now Claimform - Quayside Poole

[FTMDave]

Yes, please complete the forum sticky.

 

It's very strange that you haven't received any correspondence previously.  You haven't moved since August, have you?  Your V5C is up to date, right?

[FTMDave]

Although Britannia are morons, they do actually usually manage to send out their PCNs.

 

Personally I would SAR them so you can get to the bottom of what went on in August.

 

As for BW Legal's silly letter, it's not a Letter Before Claim, so you don't need to go anything, just ignore it.

[FTMDave]

No, not to BW.  They are just bunged a few quid to send a couple of threatening letters.

 

Your dispute is with Britannia, they have the info you need.  Send them the SAR and get a free Certificate of Posting from the post office.

[FTMDave]

It also crosses my mind that Poole Quayside may be administered by bye-laws that will trump any old rubbish a private company dream up.  Look into this as well.  Have a look in this forum and on the wider web.  Find out if where you were parked is in the Poole Port bye-laws area.

[FTMDave]

We haven't understood each other.  What I meant is this.

 

Say you see someone you recognise vandalising road signs in the street where you live.  You send them a letter saying you're fining them.  They would laugh at you.  You're not the police, the council or the courts, you have no power to issue fines.  The correct procedure would be to involve the police, for the person to be prosecuted in the Magistrates' Court and for a fine to be paid to the state.

 

Similarly, airports, train stations and ports are invariably subject to bye-laws.  Traffic offences should be prosecuted in the Magistrates' Court.  A private company have no power to issue their own charges where there are bye-laws in place.

 

At the moment nothing is happening to you save having to open letters with bilge written inside but it's possible that later on Britannia might go in the direction of court.  The more info you can build up to undermine them the better.  So one important step is to do some digging and find out if the car park you were in is inside the bye-laws area. 

 

 

 

[FTMDave]

The OP has never received a PCN, I think the November date refers to getting a "threatening" letter from BW Legal.

[FTMDave]

Any update on the bye-laws issue?

[FTMDave]

7 hours ago, hamadryad said:

I’ve done some digging but unfortunately pretty well drawn a blank on the bye law issue.

OK.  I'll try to look into it when time permits.

[FTMDave]

I've just done some research, and there are definitely bye-laws in the area.

 

I suggest you write to the Poole Harbour Commissioners  pooleharbourcommissioners@phc.co.uk  and ask if the quayside is covered by the bye-laws.

[FTMDave]

dx is right.

 

Obviously the commissioners don't run the car park.

 

What we need to know is if the bye-laws cover The Quay (I've looked on Google Maps and "Quay" is the road and "Quayside" is the name of the car park).

 

As they've been so cooperative and got back to you so quickly, contact them again and ask them.

[FTMDave]

Let me see if I've got this right.

 

You moved in 2015 (ish), and updated your V5C, etc.

 

This "offence" was in August 2021, and they sent their documentation to your 2015 address?

 

If so, this is excellent news for you, and a massive own goal for them.  They've broken just about every rule in their Code of Practise book.  You've been given no right to appeal.  They have added £60 Unicorn Food Tax.  They are supposed to ask the DVLA for your current address.

 

 

[FTMDave]

It's the vehicle details they get from the DVLA.

 

What address was on your log book in August?

[FTMDave]

It pains me to say it then, but the fleecers have done nothing wrong re the address.  In fact you're lucky they didn't send a Letter of Claim and then a county court claim form to the old address - you would have lost a court claim by default.

 

In fact they could still do this in a few months' time, it is BW Legal who have written to the new address, not Britannia.  You need to send a two-line letter off to Britannia

 

"Dear XXXXX

 

Re: PCN no. XXXXX

 

please note that I no longer live at XXXXX Gloucestershire" but now live at XXXXX Dorset".

 

Usual 2nd class post, usual CoP.

 

Any news about The Quay and if it is covered by bye-laws?

 

 

[FTMDave]

No problem, that's what we're here for

 

They haven't sent you a Letter of Claim, so no reason to even consider paying them.

 

When you have time, please upload the documentation they sent after your SAR.

[FTMDave]

No, that's a letter we send when someone has actually received a county court claim form from the fleecers.  You're not at that stage yet - and hopefully never will be.

 

Looking through your thread I don't think we've ever seen the original PCN which will have been included in their reply to the SAR.  Can you please post it up so we can see what they reckon you did wrong and then we can suggest the best way to ridicule their claim?

 

EDIT: while you're at it, please also upload the Letter of Claim.  The fleecers have probably included Unicorn Food Tax so you can use that stick to beat them with.

 

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by FTMDave
Typo

[FTMDave]

More questions, sorry!

 

So they reckon you didn't pay.  Is this true?  Can you remember what went on in the car park?

 

In their Letter of Claim are they demanding £100 or £160?  It should be £100 but most of the PPCs can't resist making up fictitious charges.

[FTMDave]

How about -

 

 

Dear Britannia Parking,

 

Re: PCN no. XXXXX

 

cheers for your Letter of Claim.  I rolled around on the floor in mirth at the idea you actually thought I'd take it seriously and cough up!

 

So you reckon I didn't pay.  Epic fail.  You really should stop buying your machines for £9.99 second hand on eBay.

 

I see you couldn't resist adding £60 Unicorn Food Tax.  Very, very bad own goal.  Judges don't take kindly to these made-up sums, do they?

 

You can either drop this foolishness now or get a complete hammering in court, the choice is up to you.  If you continue I will of course enjoy obtaining an unreasonable costs order against you under CPR 27.14(2)(g) and spending the dosh on a nice foreign holiday now that borders are reopening while all the time having a great laugh at your expense.

 

I look forward to your deafening silence.

 

 

A snotty letter always treads a fine line between showing them you have something and would be big trouble for them if they did try court, while at the same time as dx says not playing your cards too early.  I've hinted that their machines are rubbish without actually pointing out what that led to. 

 

As I say, a fine line so don't send this off immediately, there's no rush, see what the other regulars have to say tomorrow and then post on Tuesday.

[FTMDave]

Yes, as no-one has objected, send the snotty letter I suggested off tomorrow.  Make sure you get a free Certificate of Posting from the post office.

[FTMDave]

No, the defence comes later, the AOS "buys" you extra time to prepare your defence.

 

We don't advise to counter claim.

 

 

[FTMDave]

Yes.

 

It can't harm to upload the lot.

 

Better to have to much info than too little.

[FTMDave]

Two questions.  Is the quality of the two photos of your car really that bad in the PCN they sent, or is the "pitch black" look the fault of the scanning?

 

Secondly, do you have any proof that their machine wouldn't work?

[FTMDave]

OK, no problem, I was just "digging" into possible angles to undermine their case.

[FTMDave]

Go to  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/393251-received-a-court-claim-from-a-private-parking-speculative-invoice-how-to-deal-with-it-hereupdated-dec-2021/

 

then scroll down to  Q2) How should I defend?

 

There is a template defence that we advise to use.  It is incredibly generic which means later on at Witness Statement stage it can be expanded to fit any set of circumstances.

 

You can post the form but isn't it simpler to use MCOL?

 

 

 

[FTMDave]

The other regulars have often written about MCOL having "a hissy fit" at the weekends.

 

Try again tomorrow.

 

If it fails try again on Monday.

 

If by some horror that fails, then e-mail the court.  Any delivery method is acceptable.

 

Whatever you do, don't miss the deadline.

[FTMDave]

OK, well what you've prepared is fine.

 

It's irrelevant that the car has been scrapped, adding that part won't help you, nor will it harm you.

 

If you do use e-mail make sure you put the claim number in the subject heading, in fact it would be best to put the claim number and the two parties to the action.

 

Obviously click on "return receipt".