PRA claimform Fast Track - old Barclays Loans

[johnbomo]

I've just answered my own question and found this -

I will have to wait until they send in their list and get mine out asap. I do have the documents I rely on already though.

[johnbomo]

A little advice before I finish the N265

I have done some digging around my files and found the below documents which I intend to include.

 

1.) Section 77 Request dated 17/08/2021
2.) CPR 31.14 Request dated 07/08/2021
3.) Response from Claimant stating they are acting on CPR 31.14 & Section 77 request dated 01/09/2021
4.) Copy of Barclays Bank UK PLC Statement dated 18/07/2018 provided by claimant following Section 77 request.
5.) Copy of Barclays Bank UK PLC Terms and Conditions dated 26/07/2016 provide by Claimant following Section 77 Request

 

There is also a document from the 77 Request that shows the alleged debt being sold to PRA. Should I include it in my documents as it's part of the 77 Request?

I also have a document from Wescot stating they don't have a default for this debt. Should I include it in my WS and N265?

 

Also, am I correct in only filling out the very top of the N265 and then only first box on page 3?

 

I can try and get this off to the Claimant tomorrow evening, via email, which should fulfil the 4/02/2022 deadline.

 

Any advice welcome. Cheers

 

[AndyOrch]

Quote

There is also a document from the 77 Request that shows the alleged debt being sold to PRA. Should I include it in my documents as it's part of the 77 Request?

I also have a document from Wescot stating they don't have a default for this debt. Should I include it in my WS and N265?

 

Irrelevant really and not really any use in support of your defence.

 

Quote

Also, am I correct in only filling out the very top of the N265 and then only first box on page 3?

 

Yes...the majority of the form is designed really for the claimant not the defendant. You are just using it as a list index but dont attach the documents...just list them by title date

 

Andy

[johnbomo]

Okay, N265 dispatched with the docs listed above.

 

Claimant sent theirs over today. Not much in it, so I'll post the table they added

 

No	Document	Date
1	Agreement with terms and conditions from Barclays Bank Plc	26.07.2016
2	Statements of Account from Barclays from 18 July 2017 to 17 July 2018	18.07.2018
3	Notices of Assignment from the original creditor and PRA Group (UK) Limited and Barclays Bank UK PLC	04.12.2019

 

We'll see if they request anything, but I'll request everything they have.

[johnbomo]

Just checking, but should I be requesting to inspect their documents or should I just leave it and start writing my defence??

[AndyOrch]

Writing your witness statement....you have already submitted your defence.

 

Yes you should request any document that you have not already got or seen

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part31#31.3

 

[johnbomo]

Eventful morning.

 

I was called by the court today to say that I, and the claimant, had missed the court date. I was told to join the court Teams chat immediately. I was trying to join and the judge called me. She said this would do and to not worry about the teams chat.

 

She asked if we could settle the claim today.

 

I said I was unsure as the claimant had still not provided enough documentation to prove any debt was owed. She said they had sent some documents to me and had I seen them.

 

I agreed I'd seen them, but they were copies (not originals) and there was no default notice, which was my legal right to be given, provided.

 

The judge asked if I was disputing the entire debt. I said I was and she asked if I had ever borrowed money from Barclays. I said I had dealt with them in the past, but I don't recognise this debt, hence my request for proof. 

 

She has pushed for a hearing 8/04/22

 

I'm not sure this went my way.....

Edited February 17, 2022 by dx100uk
added A few blank lines only..dx

[dx100uk]

Doing fine.

 

Dx

[AndyOrch]

Looks like you got one of " them " Judges......forget all the Consumer legislation .....its is your legal right to question the claim...the claim is not about did you borrow the money...its a bout a DCA that bought the debt for peanuts and whether they can legally bring the claim.

 

You will have to refresh me John what documents are still in question ?

 

 

[johnbomo]

Sorry Andyorch, I must have missed the notification of your query.

The only documents I've received from PRA are uploaded in this post -

Basic copies of agreement, statement & notice of assignment. Missing the usual signatures, IP etc of course.

They are unable to give a default as Barclays no longer have it, but this was communicated to me by a previous DCA

[AndyOrch]

Quote

and there was no default notice, which was my legal right to be given,

Not quite..there is no legal requirement for a creditor to retain a copy of the actual DN although most can now disclose a copy on newer agreements. The legal stance is that they must be able to prove that one was served...but then without an actual copy its very difficult to prove it was in fact valid and complied with the CCA1974  section 87/88 if questioned.

[johnbomo]

Ah okay. That makes sense. No copy or proof of one being served has been given, so fingers crossed the judge sees it that way.

[AndyOrch]

It will interesting to see how they approach the default issue within their witness statement...so the cut off to request documents was yesterday ?

 

Next step will be by 4.00pm 4th March both to exchange and file statements.

 

Pre Trial checklists by 4.00pm 25th March.

 

Given that the hearing date of 8th April was advised in the Notice of Allocation /Directions.....what exactly was the hearing for yesterday and how did both parties not about it ?

[johnbomo]

I think the court was still operating on the original hearing date and had ignored the change to fasttrack.

 

The 8/04/22 hearing was sent a few days after. It's all a bit odd.

 

The shining bit of luck is that it's with a different District Judge.

 

I'll have my statement ready to go, but want to see what they have before doing the final submit.

[johnbomo]

Witness Statement and evidence

 

IN THE Bournemouth County Court

Claim No. ************

BETWEEN:

Claimant

PRA Group (UK) Limited

AND

Defendant

*******************

---

WITNESS STATEMENT OF ********************

---

I, **********, being the Defendant in the case will state as follows;

I make this witness Statement in support of my defence in this claim.

 

1.) I understand that the claimant is an Assignee, a buyer of defunct or bad debts which are bought on mass portfolios at a much reduced cost to the amount claimed and which the original creditors have already written off as a capital loss and claimed against taxable income.

As an assignee or creditor as defined in section 189 of the CCA this applies to this new requirement on assignment of rights. This means that when an assignee purchases debts (or otherwise acquires rights under a credit agreement) it also acquires certain obligations to the borrower including the duty to comply with CCA requirements (such as the rules on statements and notices and other post-contractual information). The assignee becomes the creditor under the agreement. This ensures that essential consumer protections under the CCA cannot be circumvented by assigning the debt to a third party.

 

2.) On 28/07/2021, I received a claims form from the County Court Business Centre, Northampton, for the amount of £12101.70. The claimant contends that the claim is for the sum of £12101.70 in respect of monies owing under an alleged agreement with the reference no. ******* pursuant to The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA).

 

3.) The Claimants pleaded case is that the Defendant entered into an agreement with Barclays Bank UK PLC under reference *********. I am uncertain as to which Bank Loan this refers to. It is accepted that I have had financial dealings with Barclays Bank UK PLC in the past however I have no recollection of the alleged reference number the claimant refers to.

 

4.) On the 7^th August 2021 I made a formal written request to the Claimant for them to provide me with a copy of my Consumer Credit Agreement as entitled to do so under sections 77 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An acknowledgement was received dated 17^th August 2021 and the £1 postal order was returned. [EXHIBIT 1a & 1b].

 

5.) On the 7^th August 2021 II made a formal written request by way of a CPR 31.14 to the Claimant solicitors requesting that the Claimant provides copies of all documents mentioned in the statement of case. An acknowledgement was received dated 1^st September 2021 stating that the requested documents will be delivered once available. [EXHIBIT 2a & 2b].

 

6.) The Claimant sent a response to the Consumer Credit Agreement and CPR 31.14 request dated 14^th October 2021. Enclosed in the response was a reconstituted copy of the Barclays Statement and Barclays Terms & Conditions. There response said a default note wasn’t available, but would be sent to the Defendant once received. [EXHIBIT 3a, 3b & 3c]

 

7.) Contained within the claimants particulars the claimant pleads that the defendant has failed to make contractual payments under the terms of the agreement and that a default notice has been served upon the defendant pursuant to S.77(1) CCA. In their various responses to the requests detailed above the claimant has failed to produce the default notice. It is therefore contended that the original creditor failed to serve a valid Default Notice pursuant to section 77(1) Service of a notice on the debtor or hirer in accordance with section 88 (a “default notice ”) is necessary before the creditor or owner can become entitled, by reason of any breach by the debtor or hirer of a regulated agreement.

 

8.) As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. Therefore the claimant is put to strict proof to disclose a true executed legible agreement on which its claim is based and relies upon.

Until such time the claimant can comply and disclose a true executed copy of the agreement they refer to within the particulars of this claim they are not entitled while the default continues, to enforce the agreement pursuant to section 78.6 (a) of the Credit Consumer Act 1974.

Statement of Truth

 

I, ***************, the Defendant, believe the facts stated within this Witness Statement to be true.

Signed: ________________________________

 

Dated __________________________________

 

I have almost certainly messed up the s.77 and section 77, 87, 88 etc bit, so any advice to put me back on track there. I was using an older one of mine and modified it, but as this is a Bank Loan I assume it's all different.

 

Any advice welcome.

 

Thank you

 

exhibits.pdf

Edited February 26, 2022 by dx100uk
exhibit pdf's merged to 1 file

[dx100uk]

be careful of spelling and grammar.

 

their not there...etc.

 

On 18/02/2022 at 12:21, Andyorch said:

The legal stance is that they must be able to prove that one was served...but then without an actual copy its very difficult to prove it was in fact valid and complied with the CCA1974  section 87/88 if questioned.

 

^^^^^ default notice

 

Re CCA...Fixed loans are section 77

 

 

[johnbomo]

Thanks dx100uk

 

I've updated the spelling error and fixed the section references.

 

IN THE Bournemouth County Court

Claim No. *****************

BETWEEN:

Claimant

PRA Group (UK) Limited

AND

Defendant

Mr *******************

---

WITNESS STATEMENT OF *******************

---

I, *******************, being the Defendant in the case will state as follows;

 

I make this witness Statement in support of my defence to this claim.

 

1.) I understand that the claimant is an Assignee, a buyer of defunct or bad debts which are bought on mass portfolios at a much reduced cost to the amount claimed and which the original creditors have already written off as a capital loss and claimed against taxable income.

 

As an assignee or creditor as defined in section 189 of the CCA this applies to this new requirement on assignment of rights. This means that when an assignee purchases debts (or otherwise acquires rights under a credit agreement) it also acquires certain obligations to the borrower including the duty to comply with CCA requirements (such as the rules on statements and notices and other post-contractual information). The assignee becomes the creditor under the agreement. This ensures that essential consumer protections under the CCA cannot be circumvented by assigning the debt to a third party.

 

2.) On 28/07/2021, I received a claims form from the County Court Business Centre, Northampton, for the amount of £12101.70. The claimant contends that the claim is for the sum of £12101.70 in respect of monies owing under an alleged agreement with the reference no. ******************* pursuant to The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA).

 

3.) The Claimants pleaded case is that the Defendant entered into an agreement with Barclays Bank UK PLC under reference *******************. I am uncertain as to which Bank Loan this refers to. It is accepted that I have had financial dealings with Barclays Bank UK PLC in the past however I have no recollection of the alleged reference number the claimant refers to.

 

4.) On the 7^th August 2021 I made a formal written request to the Claimant for them to provide me with a copy of my Consumer Credit Agreement as entitled to do so under sections 77 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An acknowledgement was received dated 17^th August 2021 and the £1 postal order was returned. [EXHIBIT 1a & 1b].

 

5.) On the 7^th August 2021 II made a formal written request by way of a CPR 31.14 to the Claimant solicitors requesting that the Claimant provides copies of all documents mentioned in the statement of case. An acknowledgement was received dated 1^st September 2021 stating that the requested documents will be delivered once available. [EXHIBIT 2a & 2b].

 

6.) The Claimant sent a response to the Consumer Credit Agreement and CPR 31.14 request dated 14^th October 2021. Enclosed in the response was a reconstituted copy of the Barclays Statement and Barclays Terms & Conditions. Their response said a default note wasn’t available, but would be sent to the Defendant once received. [EXHIBIT 3a, 3b & 3c]

 

7.) Contained within the claimants particulars the claimant pleads that the defendant has failed to make contractual payments under the terms of the agreement and that a default notice has been served upon the defendant pursuant to S.77(1) CCA. In their various responses to the requests detailed above the claimant has failed to produce the default notice. It is therefore contended that the original creditor failed to serve a valid Default Notice pursuant to section 77(1) Service of a notice on the debtor or hirer in accordance with section s 87(1) and 88 (a “default notice ”) is necessary before the creditor or owner can become entitled, by reason of any breach by the debtor or hirer of a regulated agreement.

 

8.) As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. Therefore the claimant is put to strict proof to disclose a true executed legible agreement on which its claim is based and relies upon.

 

Until such time the claimant can comply and disclose a true executed copy of the agreement they refer to within the particulars of this claim they are not entitled while the default continues, to enforce the agreement pursuant to section 78.6 (a) of the Credit Consumer Act 1974.

Statement of Truth

 

I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.

 

Signed: ________________________________

 

Dated __________________________________

I will need to get the WS off to the claimant by the 4th, but I still haven't received theirs. I'm pretty happy with how this one turned out.

[AndyOrch]

Just a few tweaks made in red above.

 

Andy

[johnbomo]

Fantastic. Thank you for your help with this.

It's not due in till the 4th, so I'll hang off emailing it in until Wednesday / Thursday.

 

Should I post a copy to the court just in case?

[dx100uk]

you should always use royalmail

email as a backup.

 

its also not a good idea to ever give/use email to the claimant or their dogs.

 

dx

[johnbomo]

Claimant WS and some baffling documents.

 

 

claimants ws1.pdf

[dx100uk]

how is that agreement signed by you

just in type or your sig?

 

still no DN then...

[johnbomo]

Nope, nothing has turned up yet. It's nice they added it to the WS saying it was on the way.

I wasn't expecting their contract with Barclays to buy debts though. It's fun reading 100 pages of text in case I need to redact my name

 

 

[dx100uk]

thats the deed of assignment.

 

58 minutes ago, dx100uk said:

how is that agreement signed by you

just in type or your sig?

 

[johnbomo]

It says it's signed with this sort of thing ********

                                                                       * SIGNED*

                                                                         *********