Axa refusing to act

[Argyll]

In October last year a Gardener was on top of the roof of my council lockup trimming someone's hedge. He fell through the roof causing damage not only to the roof but my property as some of my property had to be removed by a specialist asbestos cleaning company appointed by my local Council. The damage to my property amounted to £4825.20. 

 

I've been in touch with Axa claims dept who have been very reluctant to communicate with me. I have repeatedly been ignored by email and I've had to contact them by phone several times. They asked for a list of the damages which I provided. They then asked for web links to replacements which I also provided.

 

A few weeks ago I emailed them for a response otherwise I would contact their CEO. They replied a few weeks ago stating:

 

"Unfortunately, there is no policy cover for these damaged items and you will need to claim these from our Insured directly. I have made them aware of this decision."

 

If this was the case why did they ask for a list of damages? I should add at this juncture they already settled with the council regarding damage to the roof. 

 

I emailed them and requested a copy of their complaints procedure which they've once again ignored. 

 

I contacted the Financial Ombudsman who won't get involved because I'm not the customer which really disappointed me. 

 

If I take the Gardner to court I'll only get the used value of the goods so I'm reluctant to do that. I think the best course of action is to take Axa to court so I get new for old. 

 

I think Axa are chancing it as they know I'm on my own and hoping I drop it. 

I'd appreciate opinions. 

 

By the way I'm in Scotland.

 

[Argyll]

I should have made it more clear that I'm claiming from the Gardeners business policy not mine.

I sent them a list. I don't know what their policy exclusions are as I'm not the policy holder. Plus the fact they're not responding to my requests.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Argyll

[Argyll]

Ok thanks for clearing that up Ethel.

The damage caused was around £4800.

The only reason I mentioned new for old is because an insurance specialist said it's always best to pursue it through his insurers rather than the small claims as I'd get new for old. 

Anyway it looks like I'll need to take him to court.

It may be a tricky one as he has his own gardening company as well as his dad. On the day he fell through the roof I was told it was his dads vans that were parked up not the sons. So I'm not sure if he was working for his own company or as an employee of his dads. I wrote to both by recorded post a few months ago but neither responded.

Can I make a claim a claim against both in a single action?

[Argyll]

Doing a bit of detective work I managed to track down the father who told me the whole story of how his son had fallen through the roof. The son then met me a few days later at the lockup and explained to me what happened. Both conversations were recorded on my phone

[Argyll]

"I've suggested twice that you list up the items which were damaged and costs and so far you haven't done that. I'm not sure why not."

Cheers I've no problem posting up the list of damages but curious why this is relevant? 

[Argyll]

It's not an issue but I'm just mindful of giving out too much information in case the Gardener or his friends are on this forum. It's probably a long shot but you never know. Thats the only reason mate. 

Anyway here's the list:

It's not an issue but I'm just mindful of giving out too much information in case the Gardener or his friends are on this forum. It's probably a long shot but you never know. Thats the only reason mate. 

Anyway here's the list:

 

4 person tent

Enigma wheelchair

Weider multi gym

3 Bike Rear Mounted Bike Rack

Argos fold away bed

Windscreen cover

Heavy duty tarpaulin 24ftx18ft

Singer magic 4 trouser press

19th Century Oak Banded Domed Top Storage Travel Trunk / Chest (water damaged)

30 x sheep photo frames (water damaged)

25 Philips strip light bulbs

26 CA Cables

Berghaus Crusader 3 Rucksack

Slow Cooker

Barbour Jacket Many of the items had cloth which couldn't be cleaned by the asbestos removal company. For example the multi gym had foam handles. The lockup roof was exposed to the elements for a couple of weeks before it was repaired by the local councils roofing contractor. Hence some of the stuff was water damaged.  The 26 CA cables are specialised cables that cannot be purchases second hand. The cost of them are £1700.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Argyll

[Argyll]

I'm always straight mate. I'm just hoping the Gardener lies in court so I can show the recording but I guess I'd have to reveal that anyway before the case is heard. 

[Argyll]

4 person tent £532.00 Enigma wheelchair £185.99 Weider multi gym £399.00 3 Bike Rear Mounted Bike Rack £90.00 Argos fold away bed £100.00 Windscreen cover £30.29 Heavy duty tarpaulin 24ftx18ft £25.00 Singer magic 4 trouser press £230.00 19th Century Oak Banded Domed Top Storage Travel Trunk / Chest (water damaged) £337.50 30 x sheep photo frames (water damaged) £150.00 25 Philips strip light bulbs £366.00 26 CA Cables £1,821 Berghaus Crusader 3 Rucksack £250.00 Slow Cooker £68.92 Barbour Jacket £240.00

 

This is the replacements I found on the internet at the request of Axa insurance. 

Edited May 13, 2021 by Argyll

[Argyll]

I found a similar trunk on the internet but really to me it has great sentimental value as it was my Great Grandfathers. It's been in our family for years. 

I've written to several antique restorers but they didn't reply to me with a price for repair.

 

[Argyll]

Axa asked me to provide website links for replacements. Those are those prices. 

[Argyll]

The cost I provided was for new items. This was requested by Axa. It will obviously be a lot less for replacement items. It's difficult estimating the value of things if I can't find them on sale second hand. 

The lock up is about 600m from my home as the crow flies. I do not have insurance on the lockup. ironically my own home insurance is with Axa

Many of the items on that list were removed by the specialist asbestos removal company so impossible to inspect although I do have some photographs of the large items. The smaller items were bagged up inside the lockup and removed so I only saw red plastic bags removed. A list was provided by the company of items removed. 

I have no idea what insurance the Gardener has. He promised he would provide this information to me but never did. Then he just ignored my calls and letters. I found out the name of his insurer  through his insurance broker.

[Argyll]

The lock up is owned by my local Council. I've rented it for the past 10 years or so. It has corrugated asbestos roofing panels which I've recently learned aren't dangerous unless disturbed. Falling through them obviously made them dangerous.

I already tried to seek help through my own insurance at the time of the incident but they weren't interested. 

 

The gardener must have had insurance as Axa accepted liability with the council to have the roof repaired but don't accept liability with me. I'm guessing they wouldn't mess with the councils legal team but see me as someone they can brush off. 

[Argyll]

A very good source and that's all I can say on the matter. 

[Argyll]

Mate I've already mentioned I have a recording of my conversation with the gardener who admitted he was standing on the roof of my lockup and fell through. That's admitting liability.

How do I get prices for the damage to my property? Will I have to scour the internet looking for second hand prices? 

Edited August 16, 2021 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[Argyll]

Some of you were asking how I knew the insurers had settled with the council. I couldn't remember but just found an email back in February where the insurer told me.

 

Quote

Good Morning,

 

We have dealt with a claim for damage to the roof and settled this directly with ***** Council. Please could you confirm exactly what you are looking to claim for and provide evidence to support your claim?

 

Kind regards,

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Argyll

[Argyll]

I've had some progress on this matter.

Axa emailed a few weeks ago informing me they weren't liable for any claim as it was asbestos related and the policy was exempt in their small print. It's a shame they didn't let me know this back in February

However two of my items were damaged due to water ingress not asbestos namely a storage trunk that my GG Grandfather owned and 30 sheep photo frames. I sent them a video I took at the time showing they were soaked. 

 

Back in February they asked to send them weblinks of replacements. I found a storage trunk on the Etsy website with a similar trunk but not the same and of course it has no sentimental value. 

 

They agreed to settle on the two items that were water damaged and asked for weblinks again but the Etsy weblink was now dead. I assume it was sold. I explained this to them. The sheep photo frames cost me £150 a few years ago and were brand new. I can't find the receipt anywhere. 

They emailed this morning with this reply:

 

Quote

Thank you for your email. Please note this is an indemnity policy therefore we must make deductions to reflect the original age/conditions of any items, we have also not been provided with further documentation to support the costs claimed for.

 

I am willing to make a cash offer of £300 in relation to the water damaged items. Please confirm if this is accepted and provide your sort code/account number to enable us to raise payment.

 

As the photo frames cost me £150 they're really only offering me £150 for the storage trunk. Should I accept their offer? Someone told me they probably won't increase their offer before court action. 

Also they're really only giving me second hand value. I was informed for insurance purposes it's new for old.

[Argyll]

I'm taking the Gardner to the small claims court for the damage caused by asbestos. However Axa have agreed to settle for the items not removed for asbestos but damaged due to water ingress.

My question was should I accept their offer or do they typically increase their offer after first refusal or do they tend to be rigid?

Edited August 16, 2021 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[Argyll]

I lodged a claim online in my local sheriff court (Scotland) last month. His last day to respond is next week but he hasn't made any response and I doubt he ever will. I suspect he thinks if he continues to ignore me it will eventually go away. I've seen these programs 'can't pay so I'll take it away' or something like that but as far as I'm aware that only applies to England.

 

If I win my case and I strongly suspect I will how will I go about making him pay?

 

Just bear in mind I'm in Scotland where I don't think we have high court officers or bailiffs. 

 

On 27/06/2021 at 17:51, Ethel Street said:

This was discussed earlier in the thread.

 

You don't get 'new for old' when making a third party claim. Only when you you are insuring things under your own policy. Third party claims are dealt with on an "indemnity basis",  ie their second hand value.

 

I recall you said that it wasn't AXA who told you they paid third party claims new for old but an unspecified "insurance specialist". Was that person advising you formally in a professional capacity? Or was it more of a "bloke in a pub" conversation?

It was someone who works in that field but told me off the record away from work. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Argyll

[Argyll]

What's an SPC claim? The lady I spoke to at the court sent the papers. 

[Argyll]

Form 3A. Claim around £3700. 

 

ok so that was served P2P by sheriff officers, when and what is his last respond by date.

 

I think the letters were sent by recorded post. The last date of response is August 30th. 

4876438 - Copy.pdf

 

4876553 - Copy.pdf

Edited August 17, 2021 by dx100uk
merge of several posts

[Argyll]

Thanks. I'm just filling in form 7a in anticipation they won't respond. 

[Argyll]

The second respondent finally acknowledged the courts. He claimed the lock up was empty when he fell through it and I had moved items into the lock up after the incident to claim. Completely preposterous.

He also claimed I shouldn't have had property in the lockup in the first place as it's only meant for vehicles. I explained I had stored my vehicle trailer in the lockup as it's not only for vehicles. I have a large 4x4 which wouldn't fit in the lock up both width and height. The lockups were built around the 50s and 60's when vehicles were a lot smaller. I had moved some property from my large garden workshop into the lockup as I needed room to work from home due to covid.

The Sheriff extended the deadline until next week in order for the first respondent to reply who has so far kept quiet.

I think I know what his game is. The second respondent folded his gardening company in February this year. I think he's trying to take the hit so he can say his company has been liquidated so he has no assets and avoid paying. But it was his fathers company that was working that day. 

[Argyll]

1 minute ago, unclebulgaria67 said:

Any contractor carrying out work would normally be required to have insurance. So if they cause a loss to a third party, the Insurance company step into cover any liability.

 

Did they have Insurance ?

 

 

 

The second respondent did at the time but his insurance refuses to pay as asbestos contamination is exempt. The first respondent who was the main contractor has kept very quiet which makes me suspect he's trying to pass the buck on to the second respondent as he knows his company was liquidated in February. 

[Argyll]

38 minutes ago, unclebulgaria67 said:

But those asbestos restrictions apply to work they are doing and do not limit a claim from a third party.

 

From what I understand the work they were doing would not have required a survey to check for asbestos. The exclusion in the Insurance document is to avoid claims  for riskswhich should have been knowable before work commenced.  If work on the garages was to be completed, because of when they were built, asbestos is pretty likely to be found.

 

If the work did not relate to anything which would have disturbed asbestos, then the exclusion does not apply. The contractor fell through the garage roof, so it was simply an accident and the Insurers are liable for the relevant sum.

 

AXA are technically wrong as they cannot restrict liability in this way.

 

Someone more senior at AXA with better Insurance knowledge should be able to correct this.

 

 

 

To be honest mate I'm fed up dealing with Axa. They don't acknowledge emails so I have to call them. The respondent hasn't made any attempt to settle the claim with Axa. He's let me do it all so hopefully if I get a positive result from the court he can deal with it.

 

I shouldn't have been dealing with Axa at all. He should have and with hindsight I should have taken him to court a lot sooner but tried my best avoid court action. 

[Argyll]

A wee update on matters.

 

The Sheriff set a date for early November to meet with the second respondent (son) and try and come to an agreement. I was getting frustrated as this has been dragging on for almost a year.

 

However he did suggest I make an application for a decision against the first respondent (father) as he hasn't acknowledge the court in any way. Even after the deadline being extended by 17 days in order for him to respond.

 

Success! I just received a decree from the Sheriff granting me the full damages I asked for and over £300 for expenses towards the first respondent. So I might not need to meet the son in November if the father pays what he owes.

 

I expect an appeal against the decision by the father even though he hasn't made any response to the courts. So I need to wait 28 days then I can take action if he doesn't pay. 

 

Bear in mind I'm in Scotland.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Argyll