Scottish Power, now EDF and Capped gas supply bills

[meursault22]

Hi Does anyone know how an estimated bill would stand up in court proceedings?

 

I recently left Scottish Power because they insisted on sending me estimated gas bills when I don't actually have anything that runs on gas and the gas supply was capped.

 

The meter has now been removed because even my new supplier started sending estimated bills based on Scottish Power's estimated bills!

 

I have sent emails and registered letters to Scottish Power customer services stating that the account is in dispute (as well as phoned several times) with the correct readings, showing that no gas has been used but instead of replying to me or amending the estimated bill, they have passed it onto four different debt collection agencies who are all threatening court.

 

So, does anyone know if they can actually take me to court for a wrong estimated bill?

[PGH7447]

it would be fun if they did

 

Yes your honour we want our pound of flesh for the gas that was not used by the defendant, however we estimated that if he had gas he would have used this amount so why wont he pay, I mean we are already ripping people off with our prices so to boost our profits even more we have decide to send estimated bills ot all our customers whether they use gas or not.

 

-- write and ask to be taken to court

[meursault22]

Unfortunately I don't have any faith in courts delivering justice from my past experiences to do with the water company, so it wouldn't surprise me if they can get a judgement on an estimated bill for gas that wasn't used. Anglian Water have achieved similar or worse judgements.

[meursault22]

Reply from Scottish Power. The number they quote does not match either the correct reading nor the reading supplied by EDF (I checked with them and they used the last reading before the meter was removed)which is much lower and it does not match the estimated reading on my final bill which they have used to calculate what they claim I owe, which is much higher.

 

 

Thank you for your email. I have noted your comments under complaint xxxxxxxx

 

When customers change suppliers it is the customers responsibility to advise the new supplier of the meter reading to use to start the new account, this is then sent to the old supplier to close their account. I have today contacted EDF Energy to confirm the reading they sent to ScottishPower and that they have used to start their account, they have confirmed that they have used 8792 the same reading we have used. Therefore there is no discrepancy in the readings and the bill to ScottishPower is due for payment.

 

I trust this clarifies this matter.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Pam Murphy

Customer Care Representative

[nottslad]

You need to raise an ARD (Agreed Read Dispute) with EDF, if the opening read is incorrect.

 

Suppliers have to estimate bills because if they didnt and didnt obtain an actual read, they wouldn't then be able to bill you for more than 12 months if the situation changed. All suppliers will happily accept your own read and replace an estimate on a live account if you disagree with the estimate made (provided it is not lower than previous actual reads)

[meursault22]

Thanks, but the problem is that I've phoned to give them the last reading before the meter was removed at least six times, as well as put it in writing by registered post.

 

I checked with EDF and they have the same reading I provided. For some reason Scottish Power are just being very stubborn. I received a letter from them dated 24 August in response to my writing with the correct reading, after telephoning quite a few times and nothing happening.

 

Their letter reads

" You have queried why we continue with our standard debt follow up procedures when an estimated bill is issued. Any bill issued is due for payment whether it is estimated or not."

 

What I actually queried is why they had ignored the provided reading and rather than issue an amended bill, pass the incorrect bill to debt collection agencies only a couple of weeks after the bill was issued.

 

All four of the debt collection agencies that they have passed the same bill to are now threatening court action and Scottish Power still see no need to amend the bill !!!!!

 

This is why I left Scottish Power. They just kept sending estimated gas bills when I don't use any gas. The meter is outside and easily accessible to all and I've phoned in with readings regularly. AAAAGGGGGHH!

[indebtstudent]

The OP raises an interesting point, generally speaking I presume so long as the estimate could be explained an justified it could be enforced.

 

There seem to be two issues here 1 the readings were repeatedly ignored whilst the OP was with the original company 2 this has lead to the same kind of incorrect estimate being 'agreed' as the final reading.

 

Basically there must be a fundamental problem with this system for this to happen. 1 causes 2. At some point repeated readings showing no advance should cause the billing system to estimate no advance.

 

"The meter has now been removed because even my new supplier started sending estimated bills based on Scottish Power's estimated bills!"

 

There should be a record of the removed reading, and presumably of the capping kept by TRansco or National Grid, whatever they are called these days.

 

Personally given the lengths you've gone to in order to get them to try to correct such a simple (and easy to correct) error I'd say go through Consumer Direct or the Ombudsmen. Consumer Direct can make referrals to the highest level of thier complaints team, don't know if this costs them anything, the Ombudsmen definately costs them something.

 

As you have indicated many times the account is in dispute do not pay until this is resolved.

 

Maybe you can use the fact they did not read the meter against them too.

[indebtstudent]

One last thing there are some industry guidelines where companies will state it is not possible to re-agree the readings, but in a case like this it simply MUST be agreed. Its a bit like if someone is a low user of gas saying oh well you first bill with the new suplier will be proportionally less when in fact it will take them ages to reach the over-estimated reading.

 

Except in this case its worse cos there is no gas supply!

[nottslad]

If Scottish Power contact the Meter Asset Managers or MAM (possibly National Grid) they would be able to obtain the removal read of the meter and correct their billing, if they simply cannot change to closing read (sometimes a dispute cannot be raised for reasons such as the age of the dispute or the amount of units) then they will have to ex-gratia the charges.

 

Reply to them that unless they do this, you will contact the Ombudsman

[meursault22]

Thanks. I have a receipt for the removal of the meter which states the removal read and I've already sent a copy of this to Scottish Power but I'll write to them again as well as the ombudsman as suggested.

[meursault22]

News on this one - Scottish Power have now increased the number of debt collection agencies they've passed this supposed debt onto. Now I have six of them chasing me! I'm guessing they sell "debts" to collection agencies and it's more profitable to sell the same ones over and over?

[nottslad]

Have you not had any joy from the ombudsman?

 

With regards to the debt, what normally happens is that the agencies get a comission for collecting the debt, on aged debt sometimes as much as 60%!

[indebtstudent]

Post 11 in my view merely increases the chances that the Ombudsmen will, when ruling in your favour, award some kind of compensation. I have not dealt with the Energy Ombudsmen personally but anytime I see notes on an account referring to the Ombudsmen it has been a decision in the customers favour.

 

This could be a co-incidence, but given how inept suppliers are I don't think it is.

[nottslad]

I agree with you indebt, although i have seen a few occaions where the ombudsman have agreed with our final decision (we generally pre-empt what the ombudsman will say and offer that at deadlock to try and prevent escalation)

[indebtstudent]

The part of your post in brackets is what really annoys me, I know its the way of the world but it shouldn't be that issues only get in front of someone who is empowered to do something about it if they say the magic word.

 

If they looked into things properly to begin with then it would never get this far. Now I know customers can and do get the wrong idea in their head sometimes, like a chap who once told me in not setting up the DD the company had committed a breach of contract and thus he would not be paying the balance which had built up (if that works I'm off to buy a BMW in the hopes they don't setup the DD); but on the whole they are right.

 

Its a numbers game, we have to make in uneconomical for companies by taking things to the highest authority where we feel we are right.

[Industry Man]

If your supplier persists in their threats contact Consumer direct, they will resolve your issue without un necessary fuss.

[pelham9]

I find this very intriguing but one or two things do not add up.

 

It would be helpful if you would tell me.

 

A) the meter reading when the supply was capped

 

B) the date the supply was capped

 

C) The date you transferred the supply to EDF. If you were not using gas why did you make the transfer?

 

D) the meter reading when the meter was removed and the date of its removal.

 

E) when was the last time Scottish Power actually read the meter. Clearly EDF have the reading and have not billed you? You say the meter was outside and easily accessible?

 

I would take isssue that with SP that it is the responsibility of the customer to inform them of the neter reading on changeover. It is the responsibily of suppliers to make certain that they have a correct reading on changeover. Did SP or EDF ask you to take a reading before the changeover?

Edited December 15, 2009 by pelham9
Posted unfinished by accidentt

[meursault22]

I find this very intriguing but one or two things do not add up.

 

It would be helpful if you would tell me.

 

A) the meter reading when the supply was capped

 

B) the date the supply was capped

 

C) The date you transferred the supply to EDF. If you were not using gas why did you make the transfer?

 

D) the meter reading when the meter was removed and the date of its removal.

 

E) when was the last time s

 

 

A) the meter reading moved only very slightly over a long period of time possibly due to a slight leak. This is how I know it was capped. A Tranco (now National Grid ) engineer came out to check and confirmed that the supply was capped.

 

B) I do not know

 

C) Both Gas and Electricity Bills were from Scottish Power and the reason for the transfer was getting estimated bills for gas that hadn't been used.

Wouldn't you transfer to a supplier who guarantees to be able to sort out a problem that constantly escapes the current company? Although the problem was initially the same with EDF, at least they removed the meter completely and have not billed for gas since. The transfer took place around four weeks before the original post.

 

D) The meter reading when the meter was removed was the same as all along.

 

E)Both EDF and Scottish Power were notified of the correct meter reading for both gas and electricity. It seems that they are now saying that because the takeover took some time, Scottish Power just went ahead and estimated yet another bill.

 

Thanks for the advice so far here. Things are finally happenning!

Edited December 15, 2009 by meursault22

[meursault22]

Hi,

 

I've had an account with EDF for several years with a standing order of £120 per month which was always fine until earlier this year when without notice,

they tried to take nearly £2000 which the bank stopped (and charged me for stopping).

 

I'm not a heavy energy user, and the £2000 was an estimated amount.

 

So, I tried to transfer to another engergy provider, but EDF refused to let the account go until this estimated bill was paid.

 

I provided readings to both EDF as well as the new company and these showed that there was no outstanding amount,

however EDF persisted and I wrote numerous letters disputing the amount and reminding them of the actual meter reading.

 

I contaced Consumer direct who were very nice but easily fobbed off by EDF claiming that I had not provided a meter reading and also claiming that they had written to me and received no reply.

I have been writing on a weekly basis to try to sort this out, and now their solution is to hand it over to a DCA.

 

Are they allowed to do that to an account in dispute?

 

Are they allowed to send esitmated bills to a DCA when there is a meter reading available?

 

These privatized utilites seem to get crazier and crazier.

 

Is it just me, or did these kind of problems never ever arise with the good old electricity board?

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[rebel11]

Hi mer

 

Send a Formal Letter of Complaint mark it as such. Explain whats happened and what you want them to do. You might want to draw up an invoice for the time you've spent dealing with this matter. See what they say about that.

 

Send it to Vincent Derivaz, Chief Executive:-

vincent.derivaz@edfenergy.com

 

Let us know what happens.

[meursault22]

Thank You.

[dx100uk]

thread renamed to gain better assistance

 

dx