VCS/ELMS Spy car 2*PCN PAPLOC Now Claimform for 1 of them - 'NO STOPPING' BP Station East Midlands airport

[bolmgsr]

I went to East Midlands airport to pick up a friend.

I stopped in a no stopping zone for about a minute then when I saw him pulled forward around 20 metres picked him up and left.

 

I have received 2 PCN’s from vehicle control services,

one for stopping in a no stopping zone and one for stopping and picking up.

 

I appealed both and both appeals were rejected I refused to pay, and VCS have passed the debt on to ELMS legal.

 

They have separated these two offences by over a month when sending out a request to pay the fine, which I did for the first offence but then a month later got the second letter.

 

I’m thinking of not paying this and they can take me to court but would like peoples opinion on whether I have a case or not maybe legally what they did was right but morally it was wrong can they keep issuing fines like that.

[bolmgsr]

Thanks for that and for the advice

[bolmgsr]

The letter from ELMS was a letter before claim Saying if I don’t pay they will commence legal proceedings against me without further notice. I’ll have a look at the forum as you suggest, and fill in the Q&A best I can without still having the PCN.

thanks

 

[bolmgsr]

Threw them away out of frustration thought I might have a picture of them somewhere but can’t locate them, will I need them if it goes to court.

thanks

[bolmgsr]

1 Date of the infringement

10/12/2019
 

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 19/12/2019
 

3 Date received Give answer here
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] Not known
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes 
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] Yes
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up Yes posted below
 

7 Who is the parking company? Vehicle control services ltd

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] East Midlands airport approach road outside the bp petrol station
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. IAS

 

If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here

 

VCS have passed both PCN’s to ELMS legal to recover the debt, they have sent me a letter before claim

ive also contacted East Midlands airport who basically  say it’s nothing to do with them and that the petrol station have entered into a separate agreement with VCS

 

 

1st PCN appeal rtefusal.pdf 2ndt PCN appeal rtefusal.pdf

[bolmgsr]

Yes was stopped on double red lines outside petrol station got no photographic evidence but I’ve just been reading, could this be described as a continuous contravention as both PCN’s were issued within a minute on the same bit of road and therefore the same offence.

should I send a letter to ELMS legal as they seem to be the ones chasing me now.

 

thanks

[bolmgsr]

I was stopped on the road adjacent to the petrol station, not on the petrol station, then drove approximately 50 meters along the same road to pick up. Here is the adjudicators appeal dismissal :-

 

I am satisfied that the Appellant was parked in an area where the Operator has authority to issue Parking Charge Notices and to take the necessary steps to enforce them.

A number of images have been provided to me by the Operator which shows the signage displayed on this site. After viewing those images I am satisfied that the signage is sufficient to have brought to the attention of the Appellant the terms and conditions that apply to parking on this site. 

In this Appeal it is clear from the images provided that the Appellant's vehicle was stationary within the restricted area in contravention of the terms and conditions which were prominently displayed throughout the site. The extensive signage on site makes it clear that no stopping is permitted in any circumstances. The wording within the sign is such that it should be easy for any competent driver to read whilst travelling and without stopping. This is the very nature of most road signs. The Appellant would have passed a number of these signs before stopping in the area he did. Therefore the Appellant's argument about grace periods is not accepted. Unfortunately for the Appellant by stopping at all he breached the terms for entering and as a result the Appellant is liable for the parking charge.

The signage at this location clearly indicated to motorists the level of charges that were in force. In view of the fact that the Appellant chose to stop there it confirms that the Appellant agreed to the level of the parking charge if it arose. In addition the recent case in the Supreme Court of Parking Eye and Beavis dealt in part with this issue and decided that that the amount of the parking charge was justified in view of the Operator's overheads and expenses as well as by comparing the charges with those made in the public sector. Therefore the Appellant's argument regarding loss are not accepted.

I have considered all the issues raised by both parties in this Appeal and I am satisfied that the Operator has established that the Parking Charge Notice was properly issued in accordance with the law and therefore this Appeal is dismissed."

As your appeal has been dismissed, the Independent Adjudicator has found, upon the evidence provided, that the parking charge was lawfully incurred.

As this appeal has not been resolved in your favour, the IAS is unable to intervene further in this matter.

 

You should contact the operator within 14 days to make payment of the charge. 

Should you continue to contest the charge then you should consider obtaining independent legal advice.

Yours Sincerely,
The Independent Appeals Service

[bolmgsr]

Thanks i did not noticed that, I defiantly didn’t enter the petrol station or admit to entering it I can post a copy of my appeal.

when I picked up I did a u turn in the road and drove out

ill look up the letter and post a draft . Thanks

[bolmgsr]

Struggling to search for the snotty letters can you post a link please

[bolmgsr]

Hi could you have a look at the response I intend to send to ELMS legal

I write in response to your so-called “Letter Before Claim”received in relation to PCN Number VCSxxxx for an alleged parking breach.

 

I am writing to confirm that I have no intention of paying this ridiculous made-up sum of money for allegedly breaking some imaginary contract with your client.

 

Aside from the fact you have the location completely wrong as I never stopped in the fuel station, Your clients claim to have cctv footage to prove I did, is obvious garbage. This whole claim is a nonsense and I’m sure any Judge would agree.

 

Should your client wish to proceed with this farcical claim, I’ll be seeking recovery of costs on the basis of unreasonable behaviour, as well as damages for breach of the DPA 2018

[bolmgsr]

Thanks chaps,

I’ll draft that letter and send it today. Will keep you posted with any developments

cheers

mick

[bolmgsr]

Update

sent snotty letter to Elms legal got a reply this morning, looking for advice on how I should defend myself.

cheers

 

40062538-740C-4A0D-9F9F-67DE5B53FFC8.pdf

[bolmgsr]

Hi Guys, just a quick update, 

 

 I now have all the information VCS hold on me and photos to show I was not in the fuel station as they claim.

The date of the 14/02 has passed for their threat to take me to court

how long should i expect to wait to hear from them?

 

Also should i include in my appeal that the fact they couldn't issue me 2 x PCN's had this happened in a car park (as by their own charter you are allowed a 10 minute grace period)

 

how can they do it on a private road, and as it is a private road when i asked them for a breakdown of the costs incurred that lead them to the figure of £100 they quoted to me the case of Bevis v parking eye to justify the amount, however i feel this is not relevant as this event took place in a car park.

cheers

[bolmgsr]

Sorry what I meant was should it go to court should I include all the above in my defence? is it all worth mentioning or should I just go with they have me in the wrong place

[bolmgsr]

Hi,

Ive received a claim form today from ELMS saying I have to now pay 235 pounds to money claims online, county court business centre ST Katharines House NN1 2LH. it says i shouldn't ignore it and my options are to defend all this claim, to defend part of this claim or to contest the jurisdiction. There is space on the last page for a defence and counterclaim, could just do with a bit of advice on how to approach this.

 

cheers

[bolmgsr]

Here is the first page does it look familiar I can upload others if needed

thanks

Claim Form.pdf

[bolmgsr]

 

 

Name of the Claimant :vehicle control services

 

Claimants Solicitors: ELMS Legal

 

Date of issue – 10 Mar 2021

 

Date for AOS - registered with MCOL 11 Mar 2021

 

Date to submit Defence - 9th april  <<note corrected date of defence filing..dx

 

 

What is the claim for ;-

 

1. The claim is for breach of contract for breaching the term and conditions set on private land.

 

2.The defendants vehicle ******* was identified in the fuel station, EMA on the 10/12/2019 in breach of the advertised terms and conditions; namely stopping to pick up / drop off in a restricted zone.

 

3.At all material times the defendant was the registered keeper and / or driver.

 

4.The terms and conditions upon entering private land were clearly displayed at the entrance and in prominent locations. The sign was the offer and the act of entering private land was the acceptance of the offer nearby entering into a contract by conduct.

 

5.The signs specifically detail the terms and conditions and the consequences of failure to comply, namely a parking charge notice will be issued, and the defendant has failed to settle the outstanding liability.

 

6.The claimant seeks the recovery of the parking charge notice, contractual costs and interest. 

 

 

What is the value of the claim? £235.00

 

 

Amount Claimed 160.00

court fees 25.00

legal rep fees 50.00

Total Amount 235.00

[bolmgsr]

Thanks guys, 

I've completed the initial stages on MCOL and sent a CPR31:14 back to ELMS using the template letter with changes made to reflect my case, I guess I wait to hear back from them now.

[bolmgsr]

That’s true and I’ve got the pictures to prove I was not in the fuel station and I’ve seen the cctv footage they have and it clearly shows me at the top of the road then I reverse back to avoid entering the fuel station and drive out along the same road I drove up.

 

They have issued me 2 PCN’s within a minute on the same road 20m apart I paid the first one but this second one has got my goat and that why I am where I am now.

 

I don’t really know what I’m doing but with your guidance I hope to get through this with a good outcome .

 

Thanks again guys

 

[bolmgsr]

No paid it back in November thinking they might leave me alone so too late for that, could I get it back through a counter claim if I’m successful in winning? although they are different pcn numbers, in my eyes they are both part of why I’m fighting this second pcn

[bolmgsr]

Hi

i sent a cpr 31.14 to ELMS legal and today they have sent me all the information they hold on me and also the attached document of VCS terms and conditions of contract. I still have whilst the 12/04 to submit my defence just looking for a bit of advice what to say at the moment.

 

VEHICLE CONTROL SERVICES LIMITED.pdf

[bolmgsr]

Impossible to say from the photo they have I’ve drawn the route I took and the cctv footage they have shows me picking up at point B and then reversing back to avoid going into the fuel station before driving out on the same route I entered 

Bp station Site plan.pdf Audi bp station boundary.pdf Scanned Documents.pdf

[bolmgsr]

What  points should I include in my defence

 

 

thanks

[bolmgsr]

Is this enough or do I need to include anything about bylaws, POFA etc

I dispute the fact from the claimant that I entered the fuel station. The photos and CCTV evidence they have are inconclusive and does not show my vehicle in the fuel station boundary as claimed by them.

[bolmgsr]

Any better ?
 

I dispute the fact that I entered the fuel station and therefore any mention of signage within the fuel station is irrelevant.

There is no liability in this matter as East Midlands Airport land is covered by its own bylaws and therefore not subject to POFA 2012