Location not as described @emblefarms court claim issued **REFUNDED**

[thebeehive]

@emblefarms on Twitter and Instagram

 

The website implies that the cabins are on a farm overlooking the sea whereas in reality the cabins are at least a mile away from the sea with uninspiring views of the back of Seahouses town and open farmland. Photos on the website for Emble Farm overlooking the sea are from their cottage, not the cabins.

 

There are several cabins situated close together and no trees or wind breaks so you can hear everything happening in tents nearby - not at all the tranquil picturesque escape implied by their website.

 

When we said that we were unhappy as we thought it would be a quiet getaway on the sea the female owner stated that she would of course give us a refund if we were unhappy but kept trying to entice us to stay and suggested that perhaps we stay at Calder cottage another time. 
We were so disappointed that we left.

When we asked for the refund the female owner went silent.

 

The next day her husband rang up and initially seemed polite and friendly but it degenerated quickly and he tried to belittle and bully everything I said, e.g. made out that it was our fault, that there was something wrong with me and ended up screaming down the phone that we are "never getting your money back". They know what they are doing, they invoice you to pay by bank transfer so that you aren't protected by the banks. 

We tried some of their food, the lamb chops were really good but their "merguez" sausages were over processed, tasteless and didn't resemble any merguez sausage I had ever had. Similarly, the hamper of breakfast items contained over processed and tasteless sausages and black pudding that still had the price tag on and they obviously chose the cheapest options, the one exception being the smoked salmon. The fruit and vegetables looked like they were bought from sainsbury rather than the local farming community. For £80 (breakfast hamper + dinner hamper) I expected better quality organic or at least predominantly locally produced food.

 

 

 

 

pix.pdf

[thebeehive]

I am trying to get my money back and warn other people that their offering is not as described. I have been trying to get help from lots of different places and no one will help me. 

[thebeehive]

We paid £409 to stay from Monday the 19th October until Thursday the 22nd of October. We staid for one night and being disappointed and having received confirmation from one of the owners that they would refund us we left. We paid £80 for the food in cash. 

 

Attached is a screen grab of text messages from the owner promising a refund, here are some photos for comparison from the website - the first post that I sent has images of the location. 

 

After the owner called us up the day after we left to scream at me he also emailed me stating that he would not refund us and can be provided too. 

 

 

pix2.pdf

[thebeehive]

Thank you for exploring this issue.

 

Both of us took time off work to go on holiday in case we went into lockdown again. The travel expenses amounted to approximately £20 in petrol for the two of us - me and my partner. There was indeed a loss of enjoyment of the holiday in addition to the subsequent frustration and letdown by the owners. It really was a very aggressive and bullying phone call by the husband of the team and he was so loud that my partner could hear him shouting at me on my mobile phone from the other room. That was very stressful.

 

The food that we purchased from them was worth a fraction of the price that they charged, some of it had prices tags on still and it probably cost them £20 in total for what they charged.

 

We would be happy with the refund of £409 and to leave it there. However, I believe that they would do this again to someone else. I have tried to warn people through Yelp and Trustpilot but they haven’t claimed their Trustpilot account so they don’t appear in searches for their accommodation.

 

I will read through the customer services guide tomorrow, thanks.

[thebeehive]

I have measured the distance from the farm to the beach using google maps and at its closest point the beach is 1.19 miles away from the cabins. I have already told the owner that I would complain formally about the misrepresentation of the site to Trading standards and the Ombudsman and he said to go for it and that I could speak to his solicitor.

 

We took off four whole days from work and with the remaining days we visited places locally and returned to work one day early. The defendant comes across as reasonable but it only takes a few questions and he  before he escalates aggressively.

[thebeehive]

For my partner it would be a loss of earnings of £533, for me it would be £160.

 

I think that the decision on the best way to proceed hinges on whether this is a gross misrepresentation of the site, which is the root of all of the trouble and how this relates to the legal arguments that you have all generously discussed. Is being over a mile away from the sea when it is advertised as overlooking the sea a gross misrepresentation? The photos on their website as well as reporting of their accommodation in high end websites/magazines like Conde Nast are of their cottage and they make no effort to clarify this which makes their cabins more desirable and is why we rented the cabin from them in the first place.

 

Some people don't think that a mile is an overrepresentation, and some people do. 

 

 

[thebeehive]

This is their website: https://emble.org

Here is the google reference map with measurement: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Southfield+Farm+Cottage,+Seahouses+NE68+7UY/@55.5827743,-1.6614231,13.98z/data=!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x4880ac07e0c88005:0x1c0a131c893ce243!2sSouthfield+Farm+Cottage,+Seahouses+NE68+7UY!3b1!8m2!3d55.5701102!4d-1.6702874!3m4!1s0x4880ac07e0c88005:0x1c0a131c893ce243!8m2!3d55.5701102!4d-1.6702874

 

The four days were Monday - Thursday. 

 

Your opinion is appreciated. 

[thebeehive]

Hi,

I am aware that they have canvas sides, this was supposed to be a glamping experience.

 

I would say that they are about 0-15 metres apart.

 

Here are some photos that I took.

 

 I can't find them on TripAdvisor either. It looks like the cabins were available at the beginning of 2019.

The owner said that they had 200-300 people stay there over the years but may have been exaggerating. 

 

 

 

 

On 19/11/2020 at 09:01, BankFodder said:

If the OP would be prepared to walk away if they had the refund then maybe the way to tackle the holiday provider is to tell them that if the refund plus their petrol money wasn't received within a certain amount of time then a claim would be lodged for the refund plus the petrol money plus a figure for expectation loss. That might be the extra bit of pressure needed to make the holiday provider fall into line without too much trouble.

 

I think this is the way to go having given it some thought. It seems the most sensible place to start rather than the more convoluted argument of item not as described.

 

I read your consumer advice and it seemed to do more with recording any phone calls. 

What is the best way to proceed from here?

Do I contact legal advice to write a letter?

pix.pdf

[thebeehive]

Really? That would be amazing. The issue has already been escalated. What would be the contents of a letter with less conflict? My first instinct is to go straight for the letter of claim given the personalities of the owners of the property. 

[thebeehive]

In the sense that the owner has already called up and shouted down the phone at me that he will never give a refund under any circumstances. 

 

[thebeehive]

Ok,  are there any template letters that I could look at? Does it make any difference in regards to the Civil procedure rules if I am in Scotland and the owners (and the property) are in England?

[thebeehive]

The marketing states that the cabins overlook the sea and are over a mile away as the crow flies. 

[thebeehive]

That sea is in the distance over a mile away as the crow flies, with fields and multiple roads in between.

[thebeehive]

I have pointed out that they made the promise to refund and he dismissed that as being a gesture of good will. 

[thebeehive]

Here is a first attempt at a letter (is it ok to send by email?):

Quote

 

Saturday 21^stNovember

 

Dear Mr and Mrs Douglas

 

We paid £409 to stay at your cabins from the 19^thto the 22^ndof October this year. We were unhappy with our stay and on the 20^thof October Meg Douglas texted me to say that if we were unhappy that she would be happy to refund us for our stay. We then left on the 20^thof October and have not received the refund. On the 22^ndOctober Guy Douglas stated by telephone and email that you will not refund us despite promising to do so. 

 

We would prefer to have the refund as promised by Meg in her text messages to me, that I have on record. Should you continue to go back on Meg’s promise of a refund then we have no choice but to make a Small Claim in the County Court and will additionally raise the points of the confusion in the advertising on your website in addition to travel expenses and loss of income incurred for the days when we should have been on holiday. 

 

We look forward to resolving this matter swiftly. 

 

Regards

 

 

 

 

 

[thebeehive]

So the following would be better? :

 

Quote

Subject: Refund claim

 

Dear Mr and Mrs Douglas

 

We paid £409 to stay at your cabins from the 19^th to the 22^ndof October this year. We were unhappy with our stay and on the 20^thof October Meg Douglas texted me to say that if we were unhappy that she would be happy to refund us for our stay if we wanted to leave. We then left on the 20^thof October and have not received the refund. On the 22^ndOctober Guy Douglas stated by telephone and email that you will not refund us despite promising to do so. 

 

We would prefer to have the refund as promised by Meg in her text messages to me, that I have on record. Should you continue to go back on Meg’s promise of a refund then we have no choice but to make a Small Claim in the County Court.

 

We look forward to resolving this matter swiftly. 

We would invite you to carry out your original promise to make the refund. 

 

Regards

 

 

[thebeehive]

Ok, I have sent an email incorporating your proposed less confrontational changes. I suspect that they simply won't respond. If that is the case then perhaps I should send a more strident letter indicating that I am willing to submit a small claim as suggested previously. And if that doesn't produce any response after a week then I will submit a small claim. Thanks for your opinion.

[thebeehive]

They have replied and said to refer to their previous email which said that they would not be issuing a refund. So it is now step two. Perhaps I could respond with some like the following:

 

Dear Emble Farm

 

I would urge you to reconsider your stance as your text message, that I have kept a record of, made clear that you promised a refund before leaving the premises. If you are unwilling to follow through on your promise then our only source of recourse is a Small Claim through the County courts. Please reconsider your position. 

 

Regards

[thebeehive]

I have not heard a response from Emble Farm to my last email stating that my only recourse is a Small claim and I doubt that they will. I want to be ready for Tuesday morning when it will have been a week since I sent that email. In the Small claims pre-action protocol it describes the first step as issuing a letter of claim. Do I still need to do this as all of the necessary information was detailed in previous emails and demonstrates a willingness to resolve this issue independently of the County court? Or can I go straight to MoneyClaim and start a claim on Tuesday morning?

[thebeehive]

Thanks for your feedback. I haven't copied and pasted and will read through it again tomorrow before I send it. 

 

I have just read through your letter properly. Should't I also send them the Information sheet, Reply form and Financial statement as per the pre-action protocol?

[thebeehive]

You are right, that refers to a debt rather than a breach of contract. My mistake. 

[thebeehive]

Dear Consumer Action Group, thanks so much for all of your help. The claim went to mediation and some of the points that you raised in discussion earlier in this conversation (i.e. that the text message constitutes an amendment to an existing contract) were particularly helpful and we negotiated a settlement through the mediation service of the courts. Donation to support your website has been sent. Many thanks again. 

[thebeehive]

The mediation went something like the following and I only felt a little pressure at the end in order to complete the mediation:

-      The mediator called me first, explained the process and asked me for a brief overview of the dispute. I gave a brief overview but also added a couple of comments as the defendant had put into their defence that they did not know that we had left the property and had accepted their offer – comments were to the effect that the defendant had responded to a couple of messages of mine in text demonstrating that they knew that we had left on the day. As a gesture of good will, I offered £350 instead of the full £450 to close the dispute.

-      The mediator called the defendant and they said that they weren’t prepared that amount as per their defence comments and were only prepared to refund £100 and to give £100 to a charity. 

-      I declined the offer. 

-      Defendant responded that they weren’t prepared to pay that much again. 

-      I stated that I had received legal advice and that their messages were in writing and constituted an amendment to an existing rental agreement. 

-      The defendant responded that they were prepared to offer £200. 

-      I asked the mediator to explain to the respondent that as I had their comments in writing that I would win in court and as the loser in the case the defendant would have to pay that amount, my expenses, time off work, travel expenses and legal fees. 

-      At this point the defendant brought up my Instagram comments about his property. 

-      I said that I would remove the comments if he paid the £350. 

-      Defendant agreed.

-      There were a couple of messages bounced between the defendant and I as to who would do what first. 

-      For the first time the mediator pressured me to move in a particular direction to remove my comments first and that the defendant would pay within 7 days (pressured that if I didn’t it would go to court and could take a year or more to finish).

-      I agreed to take down my comments first.

-      They agreed. 

claim-form.pdf claim-response.pdf mediation-agreement.pdf

[thebeehive]

That should be all that you need there. FYI - I know that it's probably not the best way, but I have used social media to achieve a better outcome previously, as well as Trustpilot reviews in parallel with formal complaints through the financial ombudsman, and motoring ombudsman. I have also used the Action Fraud Police website to generate a complaint which then gave me a reference number to use to dispute a credit card transaction with the bank as I was charged for car rental insurance twice. You probably know all of this but just thought that I would post that in case. Good luck and thanks again! 

[thebeehive]

Yes