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Cooker replaced by Hotpoint claims department. Substantially Different to old model *** Resolved***


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Yes I remember this story of yours. I'm going to merge this thread with your old one.

 

Actually, I was wrong. It wasn't you it was someone else

 

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Who was the supplier of the original oven and when was it purchased?

If Hotpoint said that they are going to provide "like for like" then I would say that that doesn't necessarily mean that they going to replace it with the exact model if, for instance, the broken model is no longer sold. I would say that it would mean that they would replace it with the nearest equivalent.

How long have you had the replacement?

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Well firstly you haven't addressed my question as to when it was purchased.

Secondly, is there another model which has the same functions that you are looking for?

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Will please have a look and then come back here with some information.

Also I have to say that I'm rather surprised that you've been here since 2008 and yet you still seem to be fixated on the manufacturer's warranty rather than your statutory rights.

 

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Well I hope that you request a call recordings is successful – but I'm a bit surprised that you need them because I would have thought that you would by now have read our customer services guide and you would have your own recordings.

Just because a company says that it records your calls, doesn't mean that it does – and also it says nothing about the retention policy. They may have a retention policy of only a couple of months or so. There could be other more sinister reasons why they don't give them to you.
 

So you don't record your calls….  🙄

I'm not quite sure what you're going to sue them for. You had a cooker which you have used since the beginning of 2017 – and that means that you had it for 2 1/2 years and used it successfully before the door broke.

They supplied you with a new cooker – which you are not entirely happy with because of the way the thermostat works – and now you are considering suing the supplier for the breaking of the door a few months ago.

If I were advising them, I would tell them to offer a cash settlement which included a reduction for 2 1/2 years of use against the full price of a brand-new cooker which you might reasonably expect to last seven or eight years.

I think if you had tackled the problem head-on when the door first broke and succeeded in pushing for a replacement door, then you would probably have succeeded – assuming that those doors were still available – but you would still be left with a cooker 2 1/2 years into its expected lifespan.

Instead, they supplied you with a new cooker which although work slightly differently, basically means that they have given you a free upgrade which is worth about 30% of the value of new cooker.

I'm sorry to say but I think you did quite well – and because you left it so long, it won't be possible to get your door reinstated because I suppose the cooker is long gone.

If you can get the recordings which say that you are going to receive "like for like" then that might be helpful, but it seems to me that what they given you as a gesture of goodwill – and you've accepted it and it may well be that you have forfeited any further rights as a result.

I suspect that you might come off the loser in this battle

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Yes your right, maybe I have misunderstood.

In that case start off by sending an SAR and hopefully you will be able to get the call recordings.

However, as you no longer have the old cooker – so it can't be repaired, you may still be faced with the possibility of having a reduced settlement because of your 2 1/2 years of use. I don't think that anyone was obliged to replace your cooker like for like. I think that was a gesture of goodwill – and probably of convenience on their part – and I think that if it had become an issue at the time then they could eventually have gotten away with settling for a sum of money less the reduction.

Get the recordings and then we'll see what happens

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I think it will help you to identify specific models which might suit your requirements – not only including Hotpoint – but other manufacturers as well. I think you will need to get some idea of value

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When you bring a claim in any court, you almost always have to bring for £value. In other words it is extremely difficult – and certainly not possible in this case – simply to get an order from the court forcing them to carry out their promise.

First of all, who are you going to sue? Are you going to sue the supplier? I think you may not be able to any more because it seems to me that you have taken a different route to sort out the problem and as a result of that, the supplier may well be absolved of their legal responsibility. I think you could get into a very complicated argument about this and you may not win.

Are you going to sue the manufacturer? If you are going to sue them then on what basis? It would have to be contractual. You would have to make out that there was a contract in which you agreed to surrender the rights which you had with the supplier in exchange for a new oven on a "like for like" basis. That might work. However, you then have to sue for the value of your oven. Your oven, as I've already pointed out, in 2019 did not have a new value. It had a reduced value. I suppose a lot depends on what was actually said on the telephone but because you don't have a recording, you have no way of finding out unless you are able to get a copy of their recording which was made about six months ago – so far as I understand it.

If they said that they would replace your old oven with a new oven then maybe you have something to go on. But we need to know what was exactly said. I think you can be pretty certain that they will put up a fight on this. It's a shame that you hadn't read our customer services guide and recorded the call because now we wouldn't have to speculate and we would know better what we were talking about.

 

 

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If you believe that the oven is possibly dangerous as you say then you should be looking at this act where it is clear that a defect in a product can include defective instructions 

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1987/43/section/3

 

And if you are a person who is affected by this then in principle you have a right of action

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1987/43/section/41

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That is not something I can say. That is an argument that you would have to put before a judge – and of course if you can put the argument to Hotpoint so that they think that maybe it's better simply to sort it out rather than confront you in court, that will be the best way forward.

Read the statue and you will discover exactly what it is you have to show. But generally speaking it's a reasonableness test – like much of law in England and Wales – and you will have to persuade a judge that the safety of the oven is not such as persons generally are entitled to expect blah blah. In this case you are going to have to talk about the oven together with the instructions.

You say that there are lots of other people who are complaining about the same thing. That would tend to suggest that consumers expect rather different and it will be helpful to you if you can get a few of these people over to this thread and to make their contributions. Don't forget though that this is about defective products which means that the consumer expectation is one that has to be taken in the context of risks of personal injury. You say that because of the lack of instructions or  the poor instructions and because of the very different way that the oven operates compared to all other products on the market, that there is a danger that a consumer might not cook something properly with the consequential risk of food poisoning.

If you can show that the way the oven works and the lack of instructions together with the culture of most other ovens results in safety risk beyond what reasonable consumers would expect – then you probably have a winning argument.

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