Defending a UAE court claim and Court Jurisdiction.

[AndyOrch]

The N244 is used to contest jurisdiction...not set a side.

[Versus]

No it is not.

 

It is to contest a judgement

[AndyOrch]

(3) A defendant who files an acknowledgment of service does not, by doing so, lose any right that he may have to dispute the court’s jurisdiction.

(4) An application under this rule must –

(a) be made within 14 days after filing an acknowledgment of service; and

(b) be supported by evidence.

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part11

 

[Versus]

Correct.....so you respond and tick that you contest jurisdiction

 

that 244 is a different process

[Versus]

There has been NO JUDGEMENT to enforce

[AndyOrch]

The N244 is an application used for many reasons to request an order...IE Contest Jurisdiction.

 

(3) A defendant who files an acknowledgment of service does not, by doing so, lose any right that he may have to dispute the court’s jurisdiction.

(4) An application under this rule must –

(a) be made within 14 days after filing an acknowledgment of service; and

(b) be supported by evidence.

[Versus]

You cant just contest jurisdiction, you need some evidence to support the suggestion.

If on that evidence the court decline jurisdiction , the matter is ended.

[AndyOrch]

But you still need to submit an n244 to get the hearing to decide jurisdiction .

[Versus]

There has been no judgement.... so just sending in the form and ticking the box is not sufficient... you also need to state there has been no judgement.

[AndyOrch]

I give up...you need to re read CPR 11

 

(4) An application under this rule must –

(a) be made within 14 days after filing an acknowledgment of service; and

(b) be supported by evidence.

[Versus]

There has been no judgement.... so just sending in the form and ticking the box is not sufficient... you also need to state there has been no judgement.

 

CPR 11. (b) be supported by evidence.

Edited April 7, 2019 by Versus

[Versus]

YOU advised on a previous thread that no evidence or documents were required when challenging jurisdiction? why was that?  Had the party contested the Both the statement balance of ZERO AND the absence of reliable T&C things may have gone different.

 

You specifically said they did not need to submit anything else other than the statement you provided?

 

Why?

 

Not having a go just want to understand why?

[AndyOrch]

I never said there had been a judgment the OP has only just received the claim how can there be a judgment ?

 

I know and you type that in your order requested and box 10 and a Draft Order if desired which is attached to the N244.

 

Because you keep your application succinct and then present your evidence at the hearing...the hearing you are asking for in the N244.

[AndyOrch]

Have you actually read Hornseys thread and seen the N244 application ?

[Versus]

Section 10 is quite clear what you can include and should

[AndyOrch]

And what evidence would Hornsey hold to support his application at that stage that the Court should not have Jurisdiction to hear the claim.?Its quite clear what I typed and what the basis of the application relied upon.

[Versus]

your advice was:

 

10. the Court has no jurisdiction to hear the case.

 

The terms state it is dealt with in accordance with UAE law.

 

A UK Court does not have jurisdiction to hear UAE law cases.

 

There is no Foreign Judgement and therefore no action on the judgement.

 

It should have included much more and evidence. I am not arguing with you but learning..... you cannot just sayout of jurisdiction without providing evidence as to why .. inyour submission

 

and then you can go on to question the rest

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Andyorch said:

And what evidence would Hornsey hold to support is application at that stage that the Court should not have Jurisdiction to hear the claim.?Its quite clear what I typed and what the basis of the application relied upon.

 

 

Makes no sense.... if you have no evidence you have no argument.

[AndyOrch]

So go ahead what would you write in Box 10.....dont forget your limited to space.

[Versus]

1 minute ago, Andyorch said:

So go ahead what would you write in Box 10.....dont forget your limited to space.

 

I would bring the kitchen sink... as CWD do

 

(with bullet points)

Edited April 7, 2019 by Versus

[AndyOrch]

What evidence can you provide to convince a Judge about Court Jurisdiction ....dont forget this is only the application to get the hearing to contest....its not a defence...your arguments and evidence are presented at the hearing.

[Versus]

The directions require a defence and evidence 

 

I do not know the defence of a specific case

 

here are a few starters however:

 

• The terms and conditions are flimsy and open to interpretation. They are not signed or dated by the customer. This goes against standard Contractual UAE process.
• The Debt has been written off
• The statements are clear to the above
• There is no 'expert evidence' before the court today to support jurisdiction argument, let alone the credibility of the contract
• IF this matter to be heard under UAE Law in this Jurisdiction then UAE Law must apply. 
• Judgements deal with a final figure.... the Bank continue to add charges and interest. 
• The right place for this to be heard is in the UAE? Why is it that it is not (and a shed load of reasons why it is not)

 

I could go on.

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2019 by Versus

[AndyOrch]

That's all for the hearing not for the application n244 either presented verbally or by witness statement...not evidence as to why the court has no jurisdiction to try a UAE Credit Agreement.

 

The previous applications using the correct process as outlined in CPR 11 were successful in attaining a hearing......but on the day the District Judges disagreed and allowed the claims to proceed and that UK Courts do have jurisdiction.

 

Anyway we are hijacking  ConcernedExpat09 thread...which I will tidy and remove all the posts now you understand why an application n244 is part of the process.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Versus]

You ENTIRELY miss the point.

 

10. What information will you be relying on, in support of your application?

 

the attached witness statement

the statement of case

the evidence set out in the box below

 

Just ticking the box is NOT what is going to help people.

 

 

 

 

 

[AndyOrch]

Again you fail to understand the uses of the N244 ....its a General Application that covers many areas and reasons for making an application and Box 10 tends to cover most reasons...a 1 size fits all.

 

In this instance the N244 Application is simply used to get a hearing to Contest Jurisdiction with a short reason as to why you wish to contest the courts jurisdiction and why the court does not have legal grounds to hear the claim.

 

None of your list above are reasons or evidence to support the application simply questions apart from the following two which pretty much equate to what I stated on the application.

 

• IF this matter to be heard under UAE Law in this Jurisdiction then UAE Law must apply. 
• The right place for this to be heard is in the UAE? Why is it that it is not (and a shed load of reasons why it is not)

 

[Versus]

WRONG

 

It is NOT simply to get the hearing.... you fail to see the opportunity