Registered disabled - violation for parking in a disabled bay!

[Jamberson]

The CEO was probably right to issue the PCN, as there is a serious issue with BB misuse, and expired BBs (which don't have to be returned on renewal) do get used fraudulently.

 

That said, the council should treat your appeal fairly. Can you paste a copy of your appeal letter here (remove the PND number and registration number).

 

You said in your first post, "My car is registered disabled" - can you explain further?

 

There is an issue, which has been brought up, over whether insisting that a disabled person can only use a disabled parking space if he or she holds a BB. My view is that it's probably illegal to run car parks that way, as there is a duty of provision which is not met, if you are disabled and don't have one.

[Jamberson]

To be honest, the two appeal letters are not very good. They do raise important points but not in a particularly constructive manner.

 

Have you been issued a Notice to Owner yet? If not, you have another opportunity to appeal when they do issue it, but you are facing the risk of forfeiting the discount if you lose.

 

There are two issues here. The first is the set of rules and regulations surrounding parking. The second is whether those rules and regs are compliant with legislation.

 

As regards the first of these, you have been treated in accordance with the usual process. The council asserts that it does not have to cancel a PCN in these circumstances, and that's how the system generally operates.

 

The second is far more wide-reaching - whether the council is acting lawfully. You can put forward a very persuasive argument that they are not, but as neither you nor I are a judge, we can't make a ruling or force the council to interpret the legislation in any particular way. It's just our opinion.

 

You can progress your case through the adjudicator, if your appeals are not successful. I would advise you check back here before sending any more letters, so you can get some advice on what to say.

 

Regarding the law for using a BB incorrectly, I believe there is a law prohibiting misuse of a Blue Badge, and displaying an out of date one would fall under that category. It's more of a technical matter than a practical one - realistically no-one is ever going to face legal proceedings for using their own expired Blue Badge - and to be clear, you've not been accused of breaking any laws.

[Jamberson]

Dear Jamberson

 

Truth hurts, but thank you.

 

I have just received the Notice to Owner. Hence your assistance would be appreciated.

 

 

Sorry if what I said hurt you at all! It wasn't my intention.

 

As regards how to appeal from here, as you have the Notice to Owner, the discount has already expired so there's nothing to lose.

 

I would suggest an appeal along these lines:

 

 

Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) No ....

 

Vehicle registration no ....

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I would like to appeal against this PCN.

 

I am a Blue Badge holder, and need to use the disabled parking spaces in order to access the shops.

 

On the day the PCN was issued, I was in one of the two cars I sometimes use. I keep my Blue Badge handy in one or other of the cars, and of course when I parked, I retrieved the Blue Badge and placed it on display as usual.

 

It was only when the PCN was issued that I realised my error. This was in fact my old, expired Blue Badge, which I no longer use (my current one was in the other car). I did not know at the time that I was displaying an expired badge.

 

I enclose here a copy of both sides of my legitimate Blue Badge, which should have been placed on display at the time.

 

I understand that the CEO was right to issue a PCN. However under the circumstances, I would appeal to you inasmuch as I am disabled, a Blue Badge holder, and need to use the space to go about my business. I was not seeking to misuse the parking provisions, and now I realise my mistake, I will make sure it does not happen again.

 

Please would you consider cancelling the PCN on this occasion.

 

Yours, etc etc

[Jamberson]

You don't have to return Blue Badges. They are issued out and never tracked, which is why they have an expiry date. The council never asks for them back.

 

Also, the council can take any view it wants about this situation - nothing anyone in the council thinks could lead to a fine for the OP. Fines can only be dished out by a court, and they would have to convict someone of deliberate misuse by trial. Not a snowball's chance they would waste their time trying to bring a prosecution in a case like this.

 

As for keeping an expired badge as a "handy reserve" ... start at post 1 and see how logical that is!

[Jamberson]

I don't go investigating unexplained links, disgruntled, but if there's a point you want to make, go ahead.

 

IMHO the council will assume that because the person keeps the expired BB in a vehicle the intention is to use it fraudulently which is why they are cracking down on BB misuse. I suggest you pay the fine and lesson learnt.

 

No they won't assume anything of the sort. Honestly - some of the posts here seem to come with very little little factual knowledge behind them.

 

The OP has absolutely nothing to gain from paying, while they are still in the appeals process.

[Jamberson]

You don't have to return them.

 

They say they want you to, and they hope you will - but that's it. Nothing further happens. They don't know where the Blue Badge holder is living (or whether they ARE still living!), can't and don't track the Blue Badges, have no means of recalling them, and so they let the owners keep them as they wish. They even issue out replacement ones before the expiry date, without asking for the first one back, so BB holders have two at once.

 

This, by they way, is knowledge of the system, as opposed to reading from a leaflet.

[Jamberson]

1. It is NOT about the BB scheme, which does not apply in car parks. It IS about provision for disabled people.

 

2. Displaying an out of date badge will not get you into trouble. It will get you a PCN at worst, which you already have.

 

3. Complaining afterwards, in the sense of appealing on circumstances, is not silly - it's the right thing to do. That's what the appeals process exists for.

 

4. The appeal will not necessarily be rejected.

 

5. "make too much of a fuss and they may cancel and seize your current valid one" is irresponsible scare-mongering. Don't tell people stuff like that. Everyone is entitled to pursue the appeals process.

[Jamberson]

But I asked a question, if the BB scheme is clearly for ON-ROAD use, how can you receive a ticket off-road?

 

Because the car park regulations state that people displaying a blue badge are allowed to use those bays. It's not a provision under the BB scheme, it's under the terms and conditions of the car park. The PCN is for breaching those conditions, as would be, say, parking outside the bay markings.

[Jamberson]

Jamberson, you should refresh yourself on the behaviour of the London Borough of Barnet towards BB users and holders that have misused the badges one way or another.

Other LA's are following suit

 

OK, fair enough. Can you point me in the right direction? I've never heard of anyone getting into trouble for accidentally displaying their own expired badge (other than receiving a PCN).

 

Never heard of a case on this forum, for instance, in years of posting here. If it's happening, it would be good to know - any examples? If not, no reason to think it ever happens.

[Jamberson]

What a waste of bandwidth.

 

Sad Sam - please follow your right of appeal, explaining it was a mistake.

 

As expected there are zero cases of people being punished for this kind of thing. Don't worry.

 

Let us know how you get on.

[Jamberson]

I'm sure that is correct. DDA obliges reasonable adjustments for disabled people, not specifically for those who happen to have blue badges.

[Jamberson]

The reasonable adjustment depends on the nature of the disability. Councils should be (are) obliged to make provision for people whose mobility is impared, not for people with other forms of disability. It would be a reasonable adjustment to allow parking (ie cancel a PCN) for someone with difficulty accessing the shops, but not reasonable to allow the same for a deaf person.

[Jamberson]

Yeah, exactly. And I agree with him.

 

He said in his first post, "My disability, severe heart failure, means it takes effort to get to the shops."

 

So the council is obliged under DDA to make provision for him and others in a similar situation, which would mean in practice, allowing him to use those parking spaces. Not the same for someone who's deaf though.

[Jamberson]

Going over the same ground, when the OP says "all disabled people" he means there should be no distinction based on whether the people hold Blue Badges. Using the Human Rights Act to defend the argument is entirely legitimate, because it's the law.

 

Moreover the DDA references disabled people generally, not specifically Blue Badge holders. It would cover, for example, having hearing loops in buildings - which is nothing to do with Blue Badges or exclusivity for Blue Badge holders. Other reasonable adjustments include parking provision for people with mobility issues, both for those who hold blue badges and for those who do not. They are all covered by the act and therefore have the same rights.

 

Councils have a difficult task in deciding who is allowed use these spaces, and they use the Blue Badge as a way of identifying legitimate users. As I see it, CEOs are right to issue PCNs to vehicles they suspect are parked illegitimately in disabled spaces (ie, those without a valid Blue Badge on show). The next reasonable adjustment needs to be made in the appeals process, where a disabled person can show they are entitled to park there due to the nature of their disability, and the council should waive the penalty.

 

It's easier all round if people apply for and correctly use Blue Badges, so that situations like this don't arise. However they aren't obliged to under DDA, and have a legal right to use the obligatory parking provisions.

[Jamberson]

He didn't get a PCN for breach of the Blue Badge regulations. He got a PCN for breach of the "rules" set by the car park operator for the use of the car park.

 

100% right.

 

Parking provision under the Blue Badge scheme is of no relevance to this situation.

[Jamberson]

At the end of the day if Councils permitted people to use expired badges there would be nothing to stop friends and relatives using the other one or visa versa.

 

True, except it's against the law. Very hard to prevent though.

 

The DDA requires councils to make provisions for disabled persons, the BB scheme fulfills that requirement.

 

It fulfills the requirement up to a point. Say you are disabled and have a BB - the council has to make provision for you. Now your BB expires and as you rarely use a car you don't bother to re-apply. You are still disabled, the council still has the same duty to make allowances, and so you should still be able to use a disabled parking spot. The fact that the council uses BBs as a way to operate is just a practicality - not a legal absolute.

 

The OP has already stated he used the badge in a friends car,

how is anyone including the OP to know if the friend was using the badge or not?

 

They aren't - hence the CEO was right to issue a PCN. Next comes the appeals process.

 

The parking was not restricted in anyway so the blue badge was not even required to enable the op to reach the shops,

it was only displayed to avoid paying upon realising it was expired he could have simply paid the parking charge and put it down to his own forgetfullness rather than try to avoid paying fraudulently.

 

No, as I understand it, the OP needed to use the parking spaces which were well located. It wasn't about whether he had to pay for a ticket, it was about whether he was entitled to use that space to park. That's why the disabled bays are near to doors etc - nothing to do with payment, it's to do with easy access.

[Jamberson]

No wonder councils are coming down hard on BB users!

 

Meaning what? BB users are criminals? The council has no business coming down hard on BB users, who are exercising their lawful rights.

[Jamberson]

So, you meant to say the council is coming down hard on people who are misusing BBs. Not coming down hard on BB users - you basically implied that disabled people are criminals who should be persecuted.

 

"No wonder councils are coming down hard on BB users!"

[Jamberson]

Twist my words to whatever agenda suits you as you know I am correct. The OP was in the wrong and abusing the BB as it was invalid and was issued a ticket correctly however they got off on a technicality regarding the signage.

 

I haven't twisted your words, and I don't have an agenda. You slandered disabled people by suggesting they should be "come down hard" on. If anyone has an agenda, it's you.

[Jamberson]

The way i see it, The BB allows the disabled person to park in the car park free of charge for up to 3 hours in a disabled parking space

 

Aside from the disabled parking space the BB is in fact the payment for parking in the car park the same as money is for the able bodied people that use it

 

Having not displayed the correct BB having left it at home is the same to me as me not paying my £1 parking fee and when i ended up with a PNC appealing on the basis that i should be let off paying the PNC because I in fact had £1 at home

 

Also using an out of date BB must be the same as me using a fake coin in the machine

 

I very much doubt i would get off either of those

 

 

But hey life isn't fair

 

A blue badge is nothing to do with money or payments. It's not a free parking scheme - it's about physical access to shops and services. And it's a PCN you're talking about, not a PNC.

 

A much better analogy would be that you had a valid pay and display ticket, but failed to put it on the dashboard.