Can I Re-mortgage with Welcome Finance Charge on Property???

[harvey2103]

Hi all,

 

I took out a loan with welcome finance in January 2007 which is secured on my house for £13k.

 

I split up with my partner (whos name is also on the loan) in 2008 and since this have been stuggling financially with debt.

 

I am currently working full time plus a part time job at nights and the weekends, however i am only just managing to survive financially. I have succeeded in getting my mortgage up to date with no arrears, and the smaller debt my ex left i have dealt with using a debt management program but i just cant afford the payments on the WF loan (£270 per month).

 

I have missed a lot of payments on this loan and they have now passed it onto a debt collection agency (although i have yet to hear from the agency). The balance on the loan is now £15000 including charges.

 

I started reading about unfair credit agreements and wrote to them to request a copy of my agreement,

which i received although it was quite illegible as it had been printed from a computer.

Should this be a route i could take and if so what am i looking for in the agreement?

 

If not what other options are available?

can you get trust deeds to include secured debt?

i could probably afford to make small payments each month but i would be over 100 by the time it go paid off!!!

I cant see any changes in my financial situation for the forseeable future, im already working all i can and its taking its toll!!

 

I cant see any way out of this at the moment, there is no equity in the house, as its sitting at a loss.

On top of this Ive had health problems and my doctor wants me to give up my second job.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[wfspayback]

Did you apply for this loan directly with Welcome or did you go through an advisor / broker ?

 

To help reduce the debt I would do a SAR to Welcome, gets copies if all your statements..

 

Make a complaint asking for a refund of all charges and the interest applied to those charges. Once they refuse, as they will, make a complaint to the FOS.

[harvey2103]

Thanks

 

I applied for it online, then the rest was done by post.

 

My biggest worry just now is that they arnt chasing me for arrears!

 

i havent heard from them in over a year and i cant seem to find out who is actually dealing with my loan

 

. Ive been passed to two DCAs but none of them seem to know anything about me!

 

From reading other posts this isnt like WF, usually they give people loads of hassle. When i missed payments before I had phones calls, someone at my door ect.

 

I'll request a SAR in the first instance and see what they conjure up!!

 

Thanks.

[harvey2103]

Hi all,

 

Im in a bit of a pickle with the WF guys. I stupidly took out a secured loan for £13,000 with them in early 2007 in joint names with my now ex partner.

 

I then seperated from him and suffered from financial difficulty. I missed some payments which resulted in numerous telephone calls plus a couple of house visits. i made arrangements for paying off the arrears, however due to the loss of my ex's income after a few months i just couldnt keep up with the payments.

 

I have now missed about 18 payments but they havent been chasing me, no letters, no phone calls etc. I receive a six monthly statement advising me of the oustanding balance but thats it.

 

I contacted them recently in writing to request that i start making payments again, however, they told me my debt had been passed to Ascent DCA. I contacted Ascent who advised me they are not dealing with the debt!!!

 

So i contacted WF again, this time they told me Atlas DCA were dealing with my debt. Ive contacted them in writing twice and no response.

 

I have no idea whats going with the debt, I actually want to start making payments and they dont seem interested - this isnt like WF at all!!!!!

 

I requested my credit agreement from them and they sent me it but it was illegible. (Although i actually found my original agreement at the weekend)

 

Im really not sure what my next step is as no one claims to be taken responsibilty for my debt?

 

Should i request a SAR and if so what sort of things am I looking for once received?

 

Any help would be appreciated.

[harvey2103]

Hi,

 

Thanks, I have contacted both the DCA's, one claimed they werent dealing with my loan and the other hasnt responded.

(I do all my contacting in writing tho so I have evidence).

 

I actually want to deal with the loan and start paying,

I just dont know who im meant to pay since WF arent taking responsibilty!

 

 

Since splitting up with my ex I have managed to get on top of my mortgage, caught up with arrears

and the other debt he left is being dealt with using a DMP (with CCCS) and should be payed off in 18 months.

This is my final hurdle and I dont know where to start.

 

I am going to request a SAR and see what they have on file for me but im not too sure what im looking for once i receive this?

 

Thanks for the encouragement thought,

the previous forum I was using seemed to just make me feel bad about getting myself into this situation

so I really appreciate any help!!

[MrZ]

Just as an idea....you could make a small "test" payment via the automated payment line for say .01 pence and note the date. Then after you have made that payment, send your SAR and note whether or not the payment was credited to the account.

 

If the payment was credited you can carry on making payments that way whilst Welcome try to figure out if they really want the debt cleared or not. Otherwise you might wish to put each payment into a reserve account or savings account and dont touch it. When Welcome finally decide they want to sort things out, you will have a nice lump to pay toward the debt.

 

Either way you should try to ensure that money is being paid or set aside so that when they come chasing (and they will) you wont be in worse situation.

Edited September 28, 2011 by MrZ

[harvey2103]

I might try that an make the payment of 0.01p and see what happens.

 

I think the problem may lie in the fact it was local branch that dealt with my loan, but that branch has now closed and hence ive had no contact from them since. It'll be interesting to see what they hold on file for me.

 

Im definatley going to put the money aside for when they do come chasing so no unfortunately i wont be forwarding onto you dbabylon lol!

 

having looked at the statements i have received my balance has increased significantly due to charges and interest. Can this be claimed back, ive read other posts and thought this would be an idea? the charges they have put on the account seem totally ridiculous!!!!

[MrZ]

I might try that an make the payment of 0.01p and see what happens.

 

I think the problem may lie in the fact it was local branch that dealt with my loan, but that branch has now closed and hence ive had no contact from them since. It'll be interesting to see what they hold on file for me.

 

Im definatley going to put the money aside for when they do come chasing so no unfortunately i wont be forwarding onto you dbabylon lol!

 

having looked at the statements i have received my balance has increased significantly due to charges and interest. Can this be claimed back, ive read other posts and thought this would be an idea? the charges they have put on the account seem totally ridiculous!!!!

 

You can fnd the number for the automated payment here: http://www.wfs.co.uk/payment/payment.html

 

And yes you can claim back the charges and the associated interest.

[harvey2103]

Thats a valid point as well!! Although when i looked at the statement, the charges and interest seemed to have been frozen.

 

if the 0.01p is accepted then shows up on my SAR i will just need to keep paying something that way.

 

i just cant figure out why they arent chasing me, it doesnt make any sense to me!!

 

What happens if they dont produce a SAR?

[harvey2103]

Hi,

 

I am currently waiting in vain for my SAR from Welcome.

However, in the meantime, I have been trying to educate myself as much as possible about WF/secured loans on this site.

 

I have two queries that I have been pondering over recently:

 

1. The loan is secured for £13,000.

The entire application process was done by post, we never went into their office or spoke to anyone by phone.

Is this normal procedure for a secured loan?

 

 

I would have thought, they would need us to go into the office to sign the forms.

I have my original agreement and it was witnessed by a friend of mines.

Just wanted to check if this was normal WF procedure??

 

2. How can I go about checking if WF have applied a charge to my property??

I have read other posts about this and just wanted to check this??

 

Thanks in advance for any help!!!!

[MrZ]

Hi,

 

I am currently waiting in vain for my SAR from Welcome. However, in the meantime, I have been trying to educate myself as much as possible about WF/secured loans on this site.

 

I have two queries that I have been pondering over recently:

 

1. The loan is secured for £13,000. The entire application process was done by post, we never went into their office or spoke to anyone by phone. Is this normal procedure for a secured loan? I would have thought, they would need us to go into the office to sign the forms. I have my original agreement and it was witnessed by a friend of mines. Just wanted to check if this was normal WF procedure??

 

Yes, this is normal procedure. With that in mind, Welcome are obliged to give you advanced copies of the agreement before signing, they are also required to give you a notice of cancellation which details your rights to cancel. You may want to look into whether or not Welcome fulfilled their obligations. As it was a secured loan, if they did not, you could have a very strong case of an uneforceable agreement.

 

2. How can I go about checking if WF have applied a charge to my property?? I have read other posts about this and just wanted to check this??

 

Ring the Land Registry and give them your details, they will tell you over the phone. You can also order a copy online for a small fee, 8 pound or thereabout.

 

Thanks in advance for any help!!!!

 

Take your time and go over all your paperwork in detail when it arrives, its highly probable they have made mistakes, its just a matter of how big the mistakes are.

[harvey2103]

Thanks for the help.

 

I have been looking through the documents I received when i took out the loan and there is no notice of cancellation or anything about cancellation.

 

I understand if it is a secured loan you must get a 14 day cooling off period (as it was all done by post),

from the date the agreement was signed?

 

 

I signed the agreement on 29th January 2007 and the money was in my account on 8th Feb, less than 14 days later.

 

 

Does this not mean WF have failed to provide the standard cooling off period or am I misunderstanding this??

 

Thanks again.

[MrZ]

Thanks for the help.

 

I have been looking through the documents I received when i took out the loan and there is no notice of cancellation or anything about cancellation.

 

I understand if it is a secured loan you must get a 14 day cooling off period (as it was all done by post), from the date the agreement was signed? I signed the agreement on 29th January 2007 and the money was in my account on 8th Feb, less than 14 days later. Does this not mean WF have failed to provide the standard cooling off period or am I misunderstanding this??

 

Thanks again.

 

Your understanding is correct. This error on their part could have serious consequences depending on how you pursue this.

 

Given this information, I would review your situation and try to determine how to best proceed.

[harvey2103]

Thanks, What do you suppose my best options are then?

 

I have already sent a SAR but have not heard anything from them yet, (they are still within the 40 days). I have no idea how to proceed with this, i'm just trying to gather as much understanding from this website. Any help is appreciated.

[MrZ]

Thanks, What do you suppose my best options are then?

 

I have already sent a SAR but have not heard anything from them yet, (they are still within the 40 days). I have no idea how to proceed with this, i'm just trying to gather as much understanding from this website. Any help is appreciated.

 

Its hard to say until you get all your documents together. Once you have those, you will likely find other things out of place. Then you can decide how best to proceed.

[harvey2103]

As it happens Mr Z, I arrived home last night to my long awaited SAR. I havent been through it in-depth as of yet but having had a quick look last night there are a couple of points which I think may be valid arguements against WF. However, I could do with confirmation that I am on the right track?

 

1) Firstly, despite my CCR & SAR requests they have still failed to provide a legible copy of my agreement, (I have my own orignal copy though), is it still a requirement by law that they provide you with a true legible copy?

 

2) there is definately no mention of the cooling off period and the information they have provided confirms the money was paid into my bank less than 14 days after the agreement was signed.

 

3) The only document I signed was the agreement. for a secured loan should there not have been some other document to go to the Land Reigstrar for putting the charge on my property? I thought I read something along these lines in another post.

 

4) Does there need to be equity in the property to secure a loan against it? As I purchased it in October 2006, and the loan was taken out in Janury 2007, it was a 110% mortgage so there was no equity in the property at that time.

 

Finally, I dont even know if this is something I can bring up with them but it seems strange. There is a two year gap in my documents. I have details of everything missed payments, phone calls, etc etc up until the end of 2009, then nothing for two years. I missed loads of payments during this time but there is no details whatsoever until I got in touch with them recently about a payment plan. Coincidently, the local office dealing with my account closed approx 2 years ago. Is this an issue that can be raised with them?

 

Sorry for the 101 questions, I just want to make sure im going on the right path with this. I appreciate any help greatly.

 

Thanks

[harvey2103]

Hi,

 

Thanks for that. I didnt receive an advanced copy as i kept everything on file myself, there is only the one copy that i signed. Everything was done by post (no face to face or phone) so i understand the cooling off period for this is 14 days from the date of the signing???

 

There is no legal charge in amongst the SAR, I will need to contact the Land Registry, this was next on my list.

 

I have account notes up until December 2009, which are very detailed, phone calls, letters etc. Then is just stops. But this is around the time I started missing payments due to financial difficulty, i cant see how they wouldnt have notes on this period. As i said this is around the time the local office dealing with my account closed. It seems a bit strange.

 

Do you think my next step would be to write to them asking for an explanation of the above points??

[harvey2103]

Thanks again.

 

So if there was no advance copy sent in the first place, where do you think that would that leave me?

 

I tried to search the land registry online but all the sites i tried required a fee to check if there was a charg against my property. Is there a site i can get this from for free? if not i'll happily pay the fee.

 

I agree, i think there has been a c*ck up when the old office closed. As i dont believe for a minute they would let me miss so many payments without a peep out of them!

 

Thanks again.

[harvey2103]

i'll order a copy of the deeds then and see if there is a charge against my property.

 

In the meantime, i will be going through my SAR with a fine tooth comb to see what else I can come up with.

 

Thanks for all the help.

[MrZ]

Sections 61 and 64 provide the information on the effect of no advance copy and no cancellation.

 

Both result in an improperly executed agreement.

 

You dont have to pay for a copy of the Registry entry. Just ring the Land Registry and give them your details, they will look at the registry and tell you if there is/was ever a charge, the date it was placed and when it was removed if that be the case.

 

Ordering the copy online will only provide you with a list of current charges. It wont show you any info on charges that were added at one point and since removed. Welcome have been known to add the charge and later remove it. If this was the case with you, the only way you will know this is by speaking with someone at the Land Registry. Also its free. If the information proves useful you can then order a hard copy showing there is no charge.

 

You mentioned a period of no activity. I agree with dbabylon. Its likely that the notes in the local office were not saved/archived and are either lost or sitting on a hard drive in a warehouse somewhere. You should have been sent a copy of your account statement. Does the statement reflect the missed payments, or is the period also missing from the statements?

 

You asked about a legible copy. Yes they are required to provide a legible copy. Bear in mind if you chase this they will more than likely provide you with a recon copy which fulfills their duty under s77.

 

Take your time and go through everything. Continue to make notes and ask questions. It took me many many letters, many forum posts, and ultimately hiring an expert barrister who specializes in consumer credit law, before I had a full understanding of Welcome's practices.

 

I would be inclined to say you have very good grounds for getting a judgement of "irredeemably unenforceable", but its very important you know the extent of the anomalies.

 

Keep posting your questions and findings, there are a lot of other users who have experience with Welcome that can help shed some light on your situation.

[MrZ]

Duplicate post -

 

Site Team, please remove.

Edited November 22, 2011 by MrZ
Duplicate post

[Guest cakeandolives]

I am in a similar position with Welcome. borrowed £17.000 on variable interest in Feb 08 and by end of year interest rates had dropped then spoke to Welcome asking for a reduction in payments due to rate change and basically told to go away and they wouldn't change the interest rate so that was the last they saw any of my money.

 

I read on hear somewhere that the contract might be void if PPI was taken and you were not informed of the commission being paid to the adviser's.

 

I recently sent a income and expenditure form to there solicitors not being to offer them anything. I have negative equity as well so I hope they dont try and force a sale but will also check with Land Registry.

[harvey2103]

Thanks guys.

 

I will have a read of sections 61 and 64 and phone the land registry to find out about the charge.

 

With regards to the account statement, they said it would be sent under seperate cover. However, I have been receiving a statement every six months or so and yes the missed payments are detailed but no charges have been added during this time (just a ridiculous amount of interest/capitalization).

 

I agree its like the documents were lost at the closure of the last office. The paperwork they have provided in my SAR is all documents that have been scanned onto a computer (with a very bad scanner) then printed off, none of it is good quality so I think all the originals may have been lost/destoyed.

 

I will keep looking through the information though, pretty sure I can come up with some more errors!!!

 

Thanks

[Guest cakeandolives]

I am in a similar position with Welcome. borrowed £17.000 on variable interest in Feb 08 and by end of year interest rates had dropped then spoke to Welcome asking for a reduction in payments due to rate change and basically told to go away and they wouldn't change the interest rate so that was the last they saw any of my money.

 

I read on hear somewhere that the contract might be void if PPI was taken and you were not informed of the commission being paid to the adviser's.

 

I recently sent a income and expenditure form to there solicitors not being to offer them anything. I have negative equity as well so I hope they dont try and force a sale but will also check with Land Registry.

[harvey2103]

I cant see how they would force sale when there is no equity in the property cause it would be a waste of time and money on their part! But then they shouldnt really have secured loans against our properties anyway when there was no equity in them!