B&S Bailiffs "costs incurred" CTAX debt

[Skintasaurus]

I am in a payment agreement with B&S Bailiff Services for owed council tax from 2013. I have paid on time every month but this month wasn't able to make a payment until 3 days after it was due. This months payment is the last installment.

 

This morning a bailiff posted a letter through the door;

 

To: Mr ---

 

Ref:111111111

 

RE: Council Tax

 

We have called today to take control of goods. As you were out you have been given a further opportunity to pay.

 

You have incurred extra costs of £235.00.

 

Total now due immediately £269.49.

 

If we have to call again your goods will be removed and sold at the sales room without any further notice.

 

Please contact the Enforcement agent by 6:00 p.m. tonight regarding payment to avoid instant removal of goods.

 

Enforcement agent telephone number: 11111111111

 

We accept all major Credit/Debit cards.

 

There is then a hand written note at the bottom "please contact me to discuss payment".

 

I am in no position to pay these "extra costs" and had every intention of paying the final payment (£34) today but when I called the offices they refused to deal with me as my details have been passed onto the enforcement agent.

 

What can I do? I haven't contacted the agent yet.

[dx100uk]

so you have in previous times had a notice of enforcement letter and been levied a £75 fee for it?

 

 

as far as I know

 

 

he cant just jump to the £235 fee stage without having given you the letter and 7 days deadline

[Skintasaurus]

No enforcement letter or levy fee, this is the only other letter I've received from them since their first contact in July

[dx100uk]

then im not too sure he is allowed to do that,.

 

 

there are stickies on the homepage of this forum relating to the stages and enforcement he can apply to CTAX council LO's

tha date back prior to the recent changes

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

Yes, if you set the arrangement on the back of the original NOE back in July, then any default will result in an attendance and the £235 will become due.

DX is wrong. There is no further letter or further 7 days to pay period.

[dx100uk]

thanks for clarifying

as I said I wasn't too sure.

as this appeared to be something arranged before to 2014 fee structure changes

[ericsbrother]

your 3 day delay has just become a nice little earner for them.Immoral but there you go.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

thanks for clarifying

as I said I wasn't too sure.

as this appeared to be something arranged before to 2014 fee structure changes

Looks post 2014 looking at the charge.

 

OP, when was the arrangement made and was it on the back of an NOE?

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

your 3 day delay has just become a nice little earner for them.Immoral but there you go.

 

Immoral how? What's reasonable? 2 days? 2 weeks? 2 months? On setting up the arrangement the op would have been informed that a default will result in an attendance being made straight away.

[outlawla]

Immoral how? What's reasonable? 2 days? 2 weeks? 2 months? On setting up the arrangement the op would have been informed that a default will result in an attendance being made straight away.

 

It's a good job local authority automatons are as unscrupulous as enforcement agents or they'd only get away with a fraction of their swag.

[Bailiff Advice]

I am in a payment agreement with B&S Bailiff Services for owed council tax from 2013. I have paid on time every month but this month wasn't able to make a payment until 3 days after it was due. This months payment is the last installment.

 

This morning a bailiff posted a letter through the door;

 

To: Mr ---

 

RE: Council Tax

 

We have called today to take control of goods. As you were out you have been given a further opportunity to pay.

 

You have incurred extra costs of £235.00.

 

Total now due immediately £269.49.

 

Can you please post back to let us know the following:

 

How much was the debt when the payment arrangement was set up?

 

What date were you supposed to make payments by and how much?

 

You say that this month you were not able to make payment until 3 days after the payment was due. What date was that payment?

 

Most importantly, what date was the bailiff visit?

[caledfwlch]

Immoral how? What's reasonable? 2 days? 2 weeks? 2 months? On setting up the arrangement the op would have been informed that a default will result in an attendance being made straight away.

 

Unreasonable since the EA Company have not suffered any loss or detriment - given that banks, the benefits system and Employers Pay Departments can mess up, leading to late payment of income, there really should be a "window" established into the Legislation of 48-72 hours after a payment due date before the extra fees can be added. It is not fair if a payment is due on Tuesday the 5th, but at Midnight, the Bank suffers a major systems crash/problem, like Natwest/RBS keep having, and a debtors pay doesn't clear as it should, so he can't make the payment that day. As I say, the EA Company suffers no loss.

[Skintasaurus]

Sorry for the delay in my response.

 

The original debt was for £284.49.

 

The payments were every 30 days at £50 with the final instalment being £34.49.

 

The payment was due November 30th, I couldn't make the payment until the 3rd.

 

The bailiff visited on December 3rd.

 

I made the agreement in July of this year.

 

I haven't received any letter from them apart from the initial letter detailing my debt. It doesn't include anything about incurring a £235 fee for a default.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

Unreasonable since the EA Company have not suffered any loss or detriment - given that banks, the benefits system and Employers Pay Departments can mess up, leading to late payment of income, there really should be a "window" established into the Legislation of 48-72 hours after a payment due date before the extra fees can be added. It is not fair if a payment is due on Tuesday the 5th, but at Midnight, the Bank suffers a major systems crash/problem, like Natwest/RBS keep having, and a debtors pay doesn't clear as it should, so he can't make the payment that day. As I say, the EA Company suffers no loss.

 

So you say what the bailiff did here was unreasonable, yet you then say 48-72 hours is reasonable. The bailiff visited 72 hours after the default. Are you just out to argue for the fun of it. Sorry, but you just made yourself look silly again.

[Bailiff Advice]

Sorry for the delay in my response.

 

The original debt was for £284.49.

 

The payments were every 30 days at £50 with the final instalment being £34.49.

 

The payment was due November 30th, I couldn't make the payment until the 3rd.

 

The bailiff visited on December 3rd.

 

I made the agreement in July of this year.

 

I haven't received any letter from them apart from the initial letter detailing my debt. It doesn't include anything about incurring a £235 fee for a default.

 

The legislation provides that the ONLY letter that Bristow & Sutor should send BEFORE a visit is made is the Notice of Enforcement. This document outlines that a payment arrangement can be made.

 

On the 2nd page of the NoE you should find two boxes:

 

 

You must pay, or agree a payment arrangement with the enforcement agent, by:

 

Date / / Time

 

If you do not pay or agree a payment arrangement by the date above, an enforcement agent will visit you and may seize your belongings - this is called ‘taking control’. These belongings may then be sold to pay the money you owe. These actions will increase the costs of enforcement and these costs will be added to the amount already owed.

 

Possible additional fees and expenses of enforcement: Under this third title the following words must be exhibit and the amount of the enforcement visit

 

If the sum outstanding remains unpaid or you have not agreed a payment arrangement by the date and time above you may be charged the following (enforcement agent to detail further possible fees and expenses)

 

Under this last heading the fee of £235 should be provided.

 

Bailiff legislation was completely overhauled in April 2014 and is currently being reviewed by the Ministry of Justice. Suggestions have been made by the advice sector to amend the wording on this notice and my personal suggestion to them has been to amend the wording in the third box so that it says the following:

 

"If either the sum outstanding remains unpaid, a payment arrangement not agreed by the time and date above

or a payment arrangement defaults

, you may be charged the following":

[Skintasaurus]

I haven't received an NoE, just what I have posted above. The letter the enforcement agent posted through the door doesn't include any information about a payment arrangement, £235 etc. literally just pay by 6pm or we'll remove goods etc. Is this something I should now take up with B&S? I have written to the council asking them to put the account on hold whilst I try to resolve the issues.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

Why did you contact them for the arrangement? How did you know to contact them to start with?

[Skintasaurus]

Why did you contact them for the arrangement? How did you know to contact them to start with?

 

I contacted them because I received a letter from them that was simply black text on white paper saying they were looking for me involving a debt I owed and to telephone them. It was not an NoE. It had no title, no information about charges etc.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

I would be asking them for the details of when the NOE was sent out then. Can you post up a copy of the original letter you received?

[Bailiff Advice]

 

The payment was due November 30th, I couldn't make the payment until the 3rd.

 

The bailiff visited on December 3rd.

 

 

I do apologise for not responding sooner. Can you post back to let us know whether you made the payment BEFORE or after the bailiff visited on 3rd December.

[E Munch]

The OP has said he is talking about B & S Bailiff Services. This is a separate company that has no connection with Bristow and Sutor.

B & S Bailiff Services Limited

 

200 High Street, Blackwood, Gwent, NP12 1AJ